Enter: Will Middlebrooks

[a700hitter]

Yikes. I can't say no enough to this.

 

Why would you create defensive deficiencies in two positions by replacing WMB with Youk at 3rd, and then putting WMB out in LF?? That doesn't make any sense.

 

Youkilis is just going to have to understand he's going to be a backup player at 1st and 3rd. I know that you're not going to build value for him that way, but what you do is you have him rehab in AAA for a couple of weeks and let him build value there.

 

As much as some people don't understand it, GM's don't look at stats as much as you'd like to think. They rely a whole lot more on their scouts, and if they're scouting Youk on his rehab assignment and the reports are saying "He looks healthy, hitting to all fields, not expanding the zone" etc, then GM's are going to still pull the trigger on a deal.

 

His injury history and concern is not going to just go away if he has a healthy 2-3 weeks. You hope that Youk has a healthy and productive rehab stint, and that he looks good in the eyes of scouts. If he can do that, then you've got a chip. If not, you let him rehab until he gets right, and then see what kind of offers are on the table.

 

I don't think it is realistic that Youkilis will be relegated to a backup role. There's more of a chance that they try to get him to play LF.

[a700hitter]

But you want to put Aviles in LF and give SS to Iglesias' date=' who makes McDonald and Byrd look like Manny Ramirez at the plate. And is there any confidence that Aviles will be better than WMB in LF? I don't know that there is. So what's really under consideration is the defense you get from Iglesias at SS vs having WMB's bat in the lineup. Iglesias would really have to pick it to make up that gap.[/quote']Aviles' defense at SS has not been one of this team's problems. His hands have been good as has his arm. Also, Gammons mentioned that his range factor is above league average. I don't think bringing up Iglesias will add so much on the defense to offset the additional black hole he will represent in the lineup. He might be worse offensively than DMac at this point. I would hand WMB an OFers mitt from now and get him ready when youk returns. If they could put Lars out there, WMB could play there. He has more speed and athleticism.

[ORS]

Aviles' defense at SS has not been one of this team's problems. His hands have been good as has his arm. Also' date=' Gammons mentioned that his range factor is above league average. I don't think bringing up Iglesias will add so much on the defense to offset the additional black hole he will represent in the lineup. He might be worse offensively than DMac at this point. I would hand WMB an OFers mitt from now and get him ready when youk returns. If they could put Lars out there, WMB could play there. He has more speed and athleticism.[/quote']

I agree, although are you suggesting he start playing the OF right now, even while Youkilis is out? Not so sure I agree there, but it's really a toss up, since putting him in the OF now just replaces one of Byrd/DMac with Nick Punto at 3B. That's three different flavors of awful, different so there is a choice, but all awful just the same.

[a700hitter]

I agree' date=' although are you suggesting he start playing the OF right now, even while Youkilis is out? Not so sure I agree there, but it's really a toss up, since putting him in the OF now just replaces one of Byrd/DMac with Nick Punto at 3B. That's three different flavors of awful, different so there is a choice, but all awful just the same.[/quote']No, I was unclear. I would have him shagging and working with the coaches before every game to get him ready for when Youk returns. While Youk is out, I'd keep him at 3B.

[SoxFanForsyth]

But you want to put Aviles in LF and give SS to Iglesias' date=' who makes McDonald and Byrd look like Manny Ramirez at the plate. And is there any confidence that Aviles will be better than WMB in LF? I don't know that there is. So what's really under consideration is the defense you get from Iglesias at SS vs having WMB's bat in the lineup. Iglesias would really have to pick it to make up that gap.[/quote']

 

Did you pay any attention to the offseason?? Aviles was training all offseason for the transition to OF. I'd love to know the last time WMB even sniffed the OF, definitely hasn't in the minors other than maybe an inning here and there. It's a big difference.

[a700hitter]

Did you pay any attention to the offseason?? Aviles was training all offseason for the transition to OF. I'd love to know the last time WMB even sniffed the OF' date=' definitely hasn't in the minors other than maybe an inning here and there. It's a big difference.[/quote']Lars never played the OF, but after 4 games at AAA they put him in the OF. This team would be better off with WMB and Youk in the lineup rather than benching one of them for Iglesias to play SS.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Lars never played the OF' date=' but after 4 games at AAA they put him in the OF. This team would be better off with WMB and Youk in the lineup rather than benching one of them for Iglesias to play SS.[/quote']

 

Lars was a circus in the OF as well. Every ball hit that way was an adventure.

 

You guys are severely understating the deficiencies that a guy like WMB could have out in LF. It's hard enough to read the monster when you played OF your whole life.

 

This is the same guy that STOPPED RUNNING because he thought a ball was clearly going foul and it landed inside the line.

 

And that's the guy you want manning LF?? Come on guys. It's a very bad move. Pitchers would be irate with that guy misplaying fly balls and wall balls, and often times a hitter, especially a young hitter, takes that into his at bats.

 

Bad idea. Very bad idea.

[a700hitter]

Lars was a circus in the OF as well. Every ball hit that way was an adventure.

 

You guys are severely understating the deficiencies that a guy like WMB could have out in LF. It's hard enough to read the monster when you played OF your whole life.

 

This is the same guy that STOPPED RUNNING because he thought a ball was clearly going foul and it landed inside the line.

 

And that's the guy you want manning LF?? Come on guys. It's a very bad move. Pitchers would be irate with that guy misplaying fly balls and wall balls, and often times a hitter, especially a young hitter, takes that into his at bats.

 

Bad idea. Very bad idea.

The other option would be sending him back to Pawtucket when Youkilis is activated. I opt for the circus with the big bat. DMac is a circus without a bat.

[Laser Show]

The other option would be sending him back to Pawtucket when Youkilis is activated. I opt for the circus with the big bat. DMac is a circus without a bat.

 

I'd go with whatever option keeps McD off the field and out of the batters box.

[SoxFanForsyth]

The other option would be sending him back to Pawtucket when Youkilis is activated. I opt for the circus with the big bat. DMac is a circus without a bat.

 

That's not true. You trade Youkilis or bench him. Tell him sorry. Buy him some headphones. Hes too inconsistent both health wise and production wise to be a regular player.

[a700hitter]

That's not true. You trade Youkilis or bench him. Tell him sorry. Buy him some headphones. Hes too inconsistent both health wise and production wise to be a regular player.

Putting him on the bench is not going to happen. Maybe if WMB hits 2 HRs a game until Youks comes back, but barring WMB becoming Pujols or Miggy Cabrera in the next 10 days, Youk will be playing when he returns. You are just not being realistic. On the trade front, they would get very little for Youk. Plus, they would have to eat salary. It is not going to happen. Two choices: WMB plays the OF or he goes to the minors. Take your pick. If you want to keep him at 3B, you had better hope that Youk's back is a chronic problem.

[kapsis21]

Putting him on the bench is not going to happen. Maybe if WMB hits 2 HRs a game until Youks comes back' date=' but barring WMB becoming Pujols or Miggy Cabrera in the next 10 days, Youk will be playing when he returns. You are just not being realistic. On the trade front, they would get very little for Youk. Plus, they would have to eat salary. It is not going to happen. Two choices: WMB plays the OF or he goes to the minors. Take your pick. If you want to keep him at 3B, you had better hope that Youk's back is a chronic problem.[/quote']

 

just cannot fathom to think that WMB who has put us in a position to winning games Grand slam to tie the game against Orioles and then in Kansas with 2 HRs is the one you want to bench.. doesnt make sense.

Youk has had a steady decline in health and numbers and until there is justification that he can be raking again its hard to bench WMB at this point.

can Youk play outfield can he be any worse than the turd we have...?

[ORS]

Putting him on the bench is not going to happen. Maybe if WMB hits 2 HRs a game until Youks comes back' date=' but barring WMB becoming Pujols or Miggy Cabrera in the next 10 days, Youk will be playing when he returns. You are just not being realistic. On the trade front, they would get very little for Youk. Plus, they would have to eat salary. It is not going to happen. Two choices: WMB plays the OF or he goes to the minors. Take your pick. If you want to keep him at 3B, you had better hope that Youk's back is a chronic problem.[/quote']

Exactly right. Trading Youk now gets you pennies on the dollar in return. When he's back from the DL, he's the 3B, and WMB should be the LF. Move two months forward, when Crawford and Ellsbury are back in the lineup, and Sweeney/Ross are platooning like they should be, then you take a look at WMB vs Youk and award the regular starting job at 3B to the better player, and make any possible trade then.

 

You know what's not completely out of this world as a suggestion? WMB is proficient enough in the OF to get consideration as the starting RF down the stretch. He's athletic enough and has a strong arm. Given experience in the OF, he could prove worthy of consideration. Then the lineup becomes.....

 

Ellsbury

Crawford

Pedroia

Ortiz

Gonzalez

WMB

Youk

Saltalamacchia/Shoppach

Aviles

 

That lineup can thump and run.

[ORS]

just cannot fathom to think that WMB who has put us in a position to winning games Grand slam to tie the game against Orioles and then in Kansas with 2 HRs is the one you want to bench.. doesnt make sense.

Youk has had a steady decline in health and numbers and until there is justification that he can be raking again its hard to bench WMB at this point.

can Youk play outfield can he be any worse than the turd we have...?

I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to bench him, and since WMB is the better athlete, he makes more sense in the OF since Youkilis can't cover as much ground.

[SoxSport]

AdGon at 1st and Beltre at 3rd would be pretty enticing' date=' no? GG corner IF defense with a 3-4 in the lineup[/quote']

 

Now you are beginning to see why Epstein is in Chicago.

 

The Cubs, by the way, have a kid named LaHair who is playing like Calico Joe--from Grisham's new book. Calico Joe was a fictional kid who came up to the Cubs at 1B, broke the major league record with 15 straight hits, hit about .500 in 40 games, then got beaned like Tony C, which ended his career. Great story told by the son of the pitcher who beaned him.

 

LaHair is making everybody forget about Rizzo, who is tearing up AAA. I looked up LaHair's minor league record. Hit about .350 in AAA with 38 HRs, 1.1 OPS , 129 games, in AAA, 2011. Breakout. Called up by Cubs, continued to hit. This year, continuing to hit. 1.2 OPS. Looks like one of those two better get an OF glove. Maybe Youks or AdGon should do the same.

[kapsis21]

I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to bench him' date=' and since WMB is the better athlete, he makes more sense in the OF since Youkilis can't cover as much ground.[/quote']

 

but you dont send a guy back down to minors when he shows he belongs in the majors.. you send him back when he doesnt belong.. this is what i am pissed about on mgmt.

Tazawa was perfect and they send him back.. and now WMB will get the same stick..

[ORS]

but you dont send a guy back down to minors when he shows he belongs in the majors.. you send him back when he doesnt belong.. this is what i am pissed about on mgmt.

Tazawa was perfect and they send him back.. and now WMB will get the same stick..

Do you bother to read the discussion at all? I try not to speak for people, but I'm pretty sure a700 is suggesting they keep him up and play him in the OF when Youk returns from the DL.

[a700hitter]

Exactly right. Trading Youk now gets you pennies on the dollar in return. When he's back from the DL, he's the 3B, and WMB should be the LF. Move two months forward, when Crawford and Ellsbury are back in the lineup, and Sweeney/Ross are platooning like they should be, then you take a look at WMB vs Youk and award the regular starting job at 3B to the better player, and make any possible trade then.

 

You know what's not completely out of this world as a suggestion? WMB is proficient enough in the OF to get consideration as the starting RF down the stretch. He's athletic enough and has a strong arm. Given experience in the OF, he could prove worthy of consideration. Then the lineup becomes.....

 

Ellsbury

Crawford

Pedroia

Ortiz

Gonzalez

WMB

Youk

Saltalamacchia/Shoppach

Aviles

 

That lineup can thump and run.

That lineup would be a staff saver.

[a700hitter]

Do you bother to read the discussion at all? I try not to speak for people' date=' but I'm pretty sure a700 is suggesting they keep him up and play him in the OF when Youk returns from the DL.[/quote']Yep, I can't see the value of sending him down. The problem is how do you get him into the lineup every day. That's why I am suggesting LF. It's an open position for a few months.

[FredLynn]

Aviles' defense at SS has not been one of this team's problems. His hands have been good as has his arm. Also' date=' Gammons mentioned that his range factor is above league average. I don't think bringing up Iglesias will add so much on the defense to offset the additional black hole he will represent in the lineup. He might be worse offensively than DMac at this point. I would hand WMB an OFers mitt from now and get him ready when youk returns. If they could put Lars out there, WMB could play there. He has more speed and athleticism.[/quote']

 

Has he ever played there? If he has, how much experience does he have in the OF? You certainly don't want to just shove him into a position where he will look as silly as Marlon Byrd has at times in the OF. WMB is confident at 3B. The right move IMO is to keep him there and get whatever we can for Youkilis.

[kapsis21]

Do you bother to read the discussion at all? I try not to speak for people' date=' but I'm pretty sure a700 is suggesting they keep him up and play him in the OF when Youk returns from the DL.[/quote']

 

i read it and i dont think BV or FO has the balls to ask WMB to play Outfield.

it might work in our favor if we put him in OF but its a big IF. and if he gets it wrong the boston town is going to blame BV and FO again. and they are already getting burned for some bad decissions, the upside of WMB moving to outfiled is that he can defensively get it done.

but there is more downside to that decission.

DMAC is a turd and needs to be DFAd but just dont like the idea of defensively having Byrd Ross/Sweeney and now WMB manning OF.

 

 

Yep' date=' I can't see the value of sending him down. The problem is how do you get him into the lineup every day. That's why I am suggesting LF. It's an open position for a few months.[/quote']

i totally understand that dmac doesnt deserve but its doesnt make sense to move WMB if he is defensively doing a better job that Youk.

[a700hitter]

i read it and i dont think BV or FO has the balls to ask WMB to play Outfield.

it might work in our favor if we put him in OF but its a big IF. and if he gets it wrong the boston town is going to blame BV and FO again. and they are already getting burned for some bad decissions, the upside of WMB moving to outfiled is that he can defensively get it done.

but there is more downside to that decission.

DMAC is a turd and needs to be DFAd but just dont like think about it.. defensively we have Byrd Ross/Sweeney and now WMB.

They put Lars in the OF, and if he had capitalized on his opportunities at the plate, he'd probably still be on the roster. That was as bigger risk than WMB playing the OF. Where is the big downside? DMac is a trainwreck on both sides of the ball. Cody Ross plays every ball in LF like it is a hand grenade. Neither of these guys is good enough to make me forget Mike Greenwell.

[FredLynn]

Interesting poll going on at BDC. So far about 92% of the approx 700+ votes favor getting rid of Youkilis. Also, 70% of the votes are in favor of trading Beckett.

[a700hitter]

i totally understand that dmac doesnt deserve but its doesnt make sense to move WMB if he is defensively doing a better job that Youk.

Sure it makes sense. You want to get the additional big bat in the lineup, and when healthy, Youk is a big bat-- a middle of the lineup bat.

[a700hitter]

Interesting poll going on at BDC. So far about 92% of the approx 800+ votes favor getting rid of Youkilis. Also' date=' 70% of the votes are in favor of trading Beckett.[/quote']An equal percentage must also want to raise the white flag in May?

[kapsis21]

Sure it makes sense. You want to get the additional big bat in the lineup' date=' and when healthy, Youk is a big bat-- a middle of the lineup bat.[/quote']

 

but Youk has been a steady decline, we want him to be that big bat but the reality is he has been hurt and his production numbers are going down with his injury

[SoxFanForsyth]

Sure it makes sense. You want to get the additional big bat in the lineup' date=' and when healthy, Youk is a big bat-- a middle of the lineup bat.[/quote']

 

It's a significant downgrade at 3B defensively to put Middlebrooks there over Youk. All scouting reports on Middlebrooks is that he is a very good defensive 3B.

 

Keith Law said that last year, Middlebrooks was ready defensively at 3B. It was his bat they were waiting on.

 

We gotta think - This team's biggest struggles stem from the pitching. This team can't afford to just give up outs by using players out of position and letting a poor defensive player play over a very solid defensive player.

 

This pitching is bad enough as is. You have to help this pitching by putting out good defense, not sacrificing defense for offense.

[FredLynn]

The other option would be sending him back to Pawtucket when Youkilis is activated. I opt for the circus with the big bat. DMac is a circus without a bat.

 

I can't see where putting WMB in the OF is good for his development. He is a third baseman. It is, IMO, a short sighted idea. I know he has been impressive, but lets not ruin him out there. Send Youk packing; thats the right thing to do.

[SoxFanForsyth]

An equal percentage must also want to raise the white flag in May?

 

The poll was conveniently posted while Youk is on the DL and Middlebrooks is smoking everything in sight. Not a gay reference.

 

Having said that, I say Youk to the block.

[FredLynn]

An equal percentage must also want to raise the white flag in May?

 

Thats not one of the questions, but if it were, I would guess that you are correct. And I am not sure they would be wrong either.