4/30 vs Athletics

[Palodios]

The lineup they faced sucks balls. Needing 7 outs' date=' they gave up 4 hits and a walk against a lineup that is a AAA lineup. They have 2 guys hitting over .250, 4 guys hitting under the Mendoza line and two other guys hitting .206 and .200. You can put lipstick on this pig if you like.[/quote']

 

The two most important numbers in baseball are W's and runs. I have always argued that in my time here. The bullpen has looked ugly, but they did what they needed to do. This team just needs to survive until reinforcements come.

[a700hitter]

The two most important numbers in baseball are W's and runs. I have always argued that in my time here. The bullpen has looked ugly' date=' but they did what they needed to do. This team just needs to survive until reinforcements come.[/quote']I don't disagree with that, but I hope the reinforcements come before we face a team with a team batting average over .210.

[Palodios]

I don't disagree with that' date=' but I hope the reinforcements come before we face a team with a team batting average over .210.[/quote']

 

The Red Sox have a easy schedule the next two months. They play the Tigers at the end of the month, but don't see the Yankees again until July. If they're hanging in there, guys will get healthy, and the FO will probably find someone to help the bullpen.

[jacksonianmarch]

Your next 27 days are against absolute s*** offenses. Wow. Your June isnt too bad either. From July on is a gauntlet.

[a700hitter]

The Red Sox have a easy schedule the next two months. They play the Tigers at the end of the month' date=' but don't see the Yankees again until July. If they're hanging in there, guys will get healthy, [b']and the FO will probably find someone to help the bullpen.[/b]

I am waiting fr them to find some help. Apparently, it is hiding from us.

[jung]

I tend to think that while there are overarching issues with this team...survival for the pitching staff is likely the name of the game. I have nothing but respect for Buch but the A's are terrible. Giving up walks to them is a tragedy.

 

The Sox are in a spot because they can't in my view let Cook walk without seeing him start a bit here. While I would support any idea that got him up here instead of losing him...I think having him come out of the pen is not a fair shot either for the Sox or for Cook. So at this point while I still want Buch to get work, I think they have to find a way to work Cook into the rotation. Maybe the thing to do there is bring Cook up, give him a shot out of the pen once or twice and then give him a start during this 22 game stretch they have coming up. I think they have 22 games in 22 days coming up. Get him a start or two in there and if Buch is still struggling maybe get Buch two starts or so in Pawtucket so he gets to work some things out without having every pitch put under a microscope.

 

The one positive for Buch tonight was the first sign of that biting curve that he has not had for such a long time now. However the FB was still sort of nowhere and the walks were really a problem. He did keep the ball down generally more than we have seen but he made enough mistakes early in the game that any decent hitting ML team would have really given him problems tonight. I want to see Buch succeed and I want the Sox to get at least one or two shots at seeing what Cook has before having to really make a decision about Cook long term.

 

Buch looked so disappointed leaving the mound tonight. How much good would it do him to blow guys away in AAA for one or two starts.

 

The Sox have a real opportunity here to get some things figured out before they have to face the metal of the league again.

[a700hitter]

Your next 27 days are against absolute s*** offenses. Wow. Your June isnt too bad either. From July on is a gauntlet.

Some may think that the soft schedule for the next couple of months is a blessing. I am not so sure. Such a schedule could lull us into a false sense of security. Our bull pen needs help. It is not a talented group. If we come out of the next month and a half or two months in a good place in the standings without adding a quality arm or two to the pen, the good teams will feast on our pen. IMO, the FO should act during the soft part of the schedule to prepare for the gauntlet as you call it.

[jacksonianmarch]

Some may think that the soft schedule for the next couple of months is a blessing. I am not so sure. Such a schedule could lull us into a false sense of security. Our bull pen needs help. It is not a talented group. If we come out of the next month and a half or two months in a good place in the standings without adding a quality arm or two to the pen' date=' the good teams will feast on our pen. IMO, the FO should act during the soft part of the schedule to prepare for the gauntlet as you call it.[/quote']

 

By July, Bailey should be rehabbing and Bard will likely be closing with Aceves in the coveted swing role.

[FredLynn]

Obvious' date=' and shortsighted.[/quote']

 

Since you started this discussion, IMO its short sighted not to move Bard to the pen. Soon we will have SEVEN healthy SP. Someone has to go to the pen. Should we send Bard, who has excelled there, or should we sent Cook or DiceK or Buchholtz, none of whom is a relief pitcher.

There are two sides to this argument. Most of the media people, for what its worth, have been calling for the FO to make that move for a long time.

[a700hitter]

Buchholz's 3-1 record with an 8.69 ERA is positively Lackey-esque.

[jung]

If the suggestion is Buch to the pen I am just not sure he could get enough relevant work there to continue with his working recovery. I think the more likely thing for them to do with Buch is finally bite the bullet and send him on a short stint in Pawtucket and at the same time allow Cook to start a couple games up here to see what we really have.

 

Gives Buch a chance to mow down AAA hitters or not as the case may be and gives Cook a chance to prove himself or not as the case may be up here. If Cook does prove himself and there is still no room for him that may work out as a way to showcase him and get back bullpen arms in return in a trade. Maybe package Cook with Iggy since I am convinced that Iggy will not see any relevant time as a Red Sox SS.

[RedSoxNC84]

Buch to AAA and Cook to start in the rotation seems like the best idea so far.

[Cocos Disciples]

When the bases were loaded in the 8th, I was about to flip a s***. But then the heroic and flawless Red Sox bullpen saved the day. Nice offensive explosion. Buchholz was actually good through 6 so I'm not upset about his line.

[KCBRUIN]

I think a gamble of moving Dice K to the pen would be an amazing move. He can't handle a full MLB starting pitcher work load, and I don't think he'll ever be able to. But coming out of the pen I think he could be dominant, and that pillar the pen needs.

[redsoxbeatz]

How many people are we waiting to come of the DL?

 

Dice-K, Ells, CC, Bailey, ... ?

 

Good thing our offense is so sweet. Thank you Big Papi for leading the way.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Your next 27 days are against absolute s*** offenses. Wow.

 

5 against the Rays, 4 against the Tigers, 3 against the Phillies? Yeah. Cake.

[jung]

Phils are in Philadelphia as well so we will have to figure out what to do about Ortiz for those games.

[Palodios]

5 against the Rays' date=' 4 against the Tigers, 3 against the Phillies? Yeah. Cake. [/quote']

 

The Tigers are the only really dangerous offense in that group though. The bullpen will have a relatively good group to warm up against.

[ORS]

Since you started this discussion, IMO its short sighted not to move Bard to the pen. Soon we will have SEVEN healthy SP. Someone has to go to the pen. Should we send Bard, who has excelled there, or should we sent Cook or DiceK or Buchholtz, none of whom is a relief pitcher.

There are two sides to this argument. Most of the media people, for what its worth, have been calling for the FO to make that move for a long time.

No, moving him to BP is shortsighted because it considers only the short-term benefit/value of the move. Given the current set of circumstances, Bard in the BP fits the greatest need of the team......over the next two months (short-term).

 

I'm not saying there aren't two sides to the argument, I'm saying there is a short view and a long view to the situation. The long view accounts for overall better relative contribution of starting pitchers. The short view is focused only on right now.

 

I couldn't care less about what the media is saying. Why do you feel so compelled to point out when they are in your camp? Their opinion is meaningless to me. And, FWIW, I've seen it discussed elsewhere that Cafardo is kind of flip-flopping right now on the Bard and Iglesias positions he took in ST, since Bard is pitching well as a starter and Aviles has a hot bat at SS, and he's calling those clammoring for Bard in the BP impulsive. Again, I didn't read it directly, because I never read his worthless drivel, but it sounds like there's dissention in the ranks amongst your support group.

[ORS]

If the suggestion is Buch to the pen I am just not sure he could get enough relevant work there to continue with his working recovery. I think the more likely thing for them to do with Buch is finally bite the bullet and send him on a short stint in Pawtucket and at the same time allow Cook to start a couple games up here to see what we really have.

 

Gives Buch a chance to mow down AAA hitters or not as the case may be and gives Cook a chance to prove himself or not as the case may be up here. If Cook does prove himself and there is still no room for him that may work out as a way to showcase him and get back bullpen arms in return in a trade. Maybe package Cook with Iggy since I am convinced that Iggy will not see any relevant time as a Red Sox SS.

I agree that this is what they should do with Buchholz. Its amazing how these SEVEN starting pitcher scenarios tend to work themselves out. Right now, there are only five that should be in the big club's rotation, and I'm sure Buchholz and Matsuzaka will find slots opening for them when they are ready, either through injury or Cook not being able to pitch in the AL East.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Players on the Red Sox with a higher OPS than Adrian Gonzalez thus far:

 

Kelly Shoppach

Jarrod Saltalamacchia

Darnell McDonald

 

Wow.

[a700hitter]

When the bases were loaded in the 8th' date=' I was about to flip a s***. But then the heroic and flawless Red Sox bullpen saved the day. Nice offensive explosion. Buchholz was actually good through 6 so I'm not upset about his line.[/quote']Heroic and flawless bullpen = Pedroia DP on scorching 1 hop liner.

[a700hitter]

A win is a win. Some good things could be taken from the ugly win. For the first six innings, Buch looked the best he that he has so far. That was a big step in the right direction. On the negative side, the bull pen once again proved to be inept. If an 11-0 game is not bull pen proof, you are in big trouble. The simple fact is that there are no reliable arms in the bull pen. Every pitcher is a crapshoot. They need some stability. They can't continue to have the team fight like hell building a lead only to turn it over to this group of arsonists who provide the team, the fans, and the manager with nightly heart attacks. This group will not right itself. They are not a talented bunch.

 

Also, I mentioned this in another thread. What is going to happen when interleague starts and there is no room for both Ortiz and Agon. Sitting either one will be devastating to a team that relies on bludgeoning opponents.

[SoxFanForsyth]

A win is a win. Some good things could be taken from the ugly win. For the first six innings, Buch looked the best he that he has so far. That was a big step in the right direction. On the negative side, the bull pen once again proved to be inept. If an 11-0 game is not bull pen proof, you are in big trouble. The simple fact is that there are no reliable arms in the bull pen. Every pitcher is a crapshoot. They need some stability. They can't continue to have the team fight like hell building a lead only to turn it over to this group of arsonists who provide the team, the fans, and the manager with nightly heart attacks. This group will not right itself. They are not a talented bunch.

 

Also, I mentioned this in another thread. What is going to happen when interleague starts and there is no room for both Ortiz and Agon. Sitting either one will be devastating to a team that relies on bludgeoning opponents.

 

While I agree that the bullpen didn't look very good because of all of the baserunners, they still worked themselves out of the jams and didn't allow a run, and if Punto catches that easy pop up, the bullpen doesn't look nearly as bad because they get out of a 1st and 2nd jam, not a bases loaded jam. Deceiving? Sure. But count your lucky stars that this performance wasn't against a better hitting team. Fortunate that this was against the lowly A's offense. Either way - the pen got the job done, ugly as it was, and didn't allow a run, so I'm not sure you can say the lead wasn't "bullpen proof" because once the SP left, no more runs were scored.

 

And when it's IL, Ortiz plays 1st, Gonzo plays RF. Bobby was already prepping for that in ST.

[a700hitter]

While I agree that the bullpen didn't look very good because of all of the baserunners, they still worked themselves out of the jams and didn't allow a run, and if Punto catches that easy pop up, the bullpen doesn't look nearly as bad because they get out of a 1st and 2nd jam, not a bases loaded jam. Deceiving? Sure. But count your lucky stars that this performance wasn't against a better hitting team. Fortunate that this was against the lowly A's offense. Either way - the pen got the job done, ugly as it was, and didn't allow a run, so I'm not sure you can say the lead wasn't "bullpen proof" because once the SP left, no more runs were scored.

 

And when it's IL, Ortiz plays 1st, Gonzo plays RF. Bobby was already prepping for that in ST.

I realize that we were lucky to be facing the A's yesterday, and I don't disagree with most of the rest of your post. However, my point is that we will not be facing a .200 hitting team every day, and this bull pen doesn't have the talent to pull this team through the tough spots. There are no go to guys out there. It's heart attack time. Arms are needed now. We can't wait for Bailey to come back in August. IMO, that will be too late.

 

You wonder how I can say that the game wasn't bull pen proof? If you need 5 relievers to finish off a game in which you had an 11 run lead in the 7th and a 6 run lead when you turned the game over to the pen, the pen didn't do it's job. Bobby V should have been able to go to 1 maybe 2 pitchers to mop up the rest of the game, but he couldn't. This group actually let the tying run get to the on-deck circle with no one out in the 8th inning. You say that things wouldn't have looked so bad if Punto hadn't dropped the pop up, but on the other hand things may not have turned out so well had it not been for Pedroia's stellar DP on a scorching 1 hop liner by Reddick. That was a very nice play. The pen needs arms.

 

As for AGon in RF, I agree that is what needs to be done. I am not so sure that it will be done. AGon didn't get any significant OF time in ST. Has anyone heard that he has been shagging flies during the regular season? I hope that he plays RF, because pulling Ortiz out of the lineup will have the same results as last year in the NL parks-- an offensive power outage.

[BornToRun]

Phils are in Philadelphia as well so we will have to figure out what to do about Ortiz for those games.

 

I think bobby said he was gonna roll with adrian in right.

[Bellhorn04]

Players on the Red Sox with a higher OPS than Adrian Gonzalez thus far:

 

Kelly Shoppach

Jarrod Saltalamacchia

Darnell McDonald

 

Wow.

 

Yes, and players with a lower OPS than Gonzo include Teixeira and Cano.

 

Darnell's OPS went up 190 points last night.

 

Early days and small sample sizes = some wacky-looking numbers.

[RedSoxNC84]

I realize that we were lucky to be facing the A's yesterday, and I don't disagree with most of the rest of your post. However, my point is that we will not be facing a .200 hitting team every day, and this bull pen doesn't have the talent to pull this team through the tough spots. There are no go to guys out there. It's heart attack time. Arms are needed now. We can't wait for Bailey to come back in August. IMO, that will be too late.

 

You wonder how I can say that the game wasn't bull pen proof? If you need 5 relievers to finish off a game in which you had an 11 run lead in the 7th and a 6 run lead when you turned the game over to the pen, the pen didn't do it's job. Bobby V should have been able to go to 1 maybe 2 pitchers to mop up the rest of the game, but he couldn't. This group actually let the tying run get to the on-deck circle with no one out in the 8th inning. You say that things wouldn't have looked so bad if Punto hadn't dropped the pop up, but on the other hand things may not have turned out so well had it not been for Pedroia's stellar DP on a scorching 1 hop liner by Reddick. That was a very nice play. The pen needs arms.

 

As for AGon in RF, I agree that is what needs to be done. I am not so sure that it will be done. AGon didn't get any significant OF time in ST. Has anyone heard that he has been shagging flies during the regular season? I hope that he plays RF, because pulling Ortiz out of the lineup will have the same results as last year in the NL parks-- an offensive power outage.

 

If only the NL would adopt the damn DH rule already, then we wouldn't have to worry about such nonsense as putting Gonzalez in right field.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Youk out of the lineup yet again tonight (Tuesday, game 2).

 

Can we please call up WMB already?!?!?

 

I am so sick of this same story over and over. Youkilis hurt. Again and again and again.

[kapsis21]

Youk out of the lineup yet again tonight (Tuesday, game 2).

 

Can we please call up WMB already?!?!?

 

I am so sick of this same story over and over. Youkilis hurt. Again and again and again.

problem is with a guy like Punto who fills in when Youk is down, so WMB can keep hacking at AAA, if we bring him up and DFA Punto and now Youk gets back healthy, WMB becomes a bench player, not sure if we want the kid missing 3-4 days and getting his swing out of whack.