4/21 Red Sox vs NYY

[jung]

I heard something today and really did not believe it completely but one of the radio talking heads was talking about dice in May now. May was first reported several weeks ago and then that was colored as "optimistic" but maybe May is back on for dice.

[IHATEYOU]

Pretty much.

 

Welcome to Talksox, by the way.

 

Thank you.

[SoxSport]

Overheard in the owners box :

 

Henry-- You know, Larry, this kid Tazawa looks like the best pitcher in the bullpen right now.

Why don't we make him the 5th starter and move Bard to closer?

 

LL: Sounds sensible. But we'll have to clear it with the front office. Bard really wants to start.

 

Henry: Well, it's about winning, you know. And right now, we don't have a closer. And another thing, why are all those hot prospects winning games in Pawtucket and not here?

 

LL: Sounds sensible, too. But the front office thinks they need more experience.

 

Henry: Don't you think Dubront should have started the 7th inning? Seems like your Bobby V didn't make the right pitching decisions in this game. The fans don't seem to be taking very well to him.

 

LL: Sounds sensible, again. I'll suggest to Bobby that starters should go deeper into games when they are throwing quality starts--to take the pressure off the bullpen.

 

Henry: Sounds sensible, Larry.

 

The Globe says tonite Henry visited the clubhouse after the game. One of the things discussed was a changing of roles in the pitching. V said it was not out of the question that Bard would go back to the bullpen, i.e., as closer.

 

The walls in those luxury boxes are very thin.

[iortiz]

The Globe says tonite Henry visited the clubhouse after the game. One of the things discussed was a changing of roles in the pitching. V said it was not out of the question that Bard would go back to the bullpen, i.e., as closer.

 

The walls in those luxury boxes are very thin.

 

If this true, who will be the 5th SP? Cook?

[Elktonnick]

The Globe says tonite Henry visited the clubhouse after the game. One of the things discussed was a changing of roles in the pitching. V said it was not out of the question that Bard would go back to the bullpen, i.e., as closer.

 

The walls in those luxury boxes are very thin.

 

Henry and LL were caught on camera by Fox during the game. HNenry was writing something on his memo pad. Love to see what he wrote! "Memo to Ben: Get pitching"

[iortiz]

BtW I like the idea to move back Bard to BP. I only want to see how they going to address the 5th spot in the rotation. Should they consider Oswalt? If healthy, of course!

[Wil Corderos Wife]

In an effort to be positive and remind evryone why baseball is such a great game, below is the line score on June 27 2003. The Red Sox scored 14 runs in the first inning that day against the "hapless" Florida Marlins. BTW the Marlins went on to win the World Series that year against the New YorK Yankees.

 

 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 R H E

FLA 1 0 0 0 4 0 0 1 2 8 10 0

BOS 14 2 1 2 1 0 1 4 - 25 28 1

W: B. Kim (3-6)

 

L: C. Pavano (6-9)

 

And the next night they had a 9-1 lead going into the 8th inning and lost :harhar:

[Bellhorn04]

BtW I like the idea to move back Bard to BP. I only want to see how they going to address the 5th spot in the rotation. Should they consider Oswalt? If healthy' date=' of course![/quote']

 

Cook is gone May 1 if they don't bring him up, I think.

[mikeywalnuts]

Uh huh. Uh huh I like it.

 

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/assets/images/4/2/0/29326420/cuts/scoreboard480x380_ne58wmxj_jhdsvo4a.jpg

[jacksonianmarch]

Today was a glaring example of why the sox need a shakeup. Your offense pounds the piss out of the ball, your starter was dominant, yet your pen allowed 14 runs in 3 innings, with your closer unable to register an out. Your starters will start to struggle if they start feeling like they need to throw CG's to win

[Station 13]

Doubront pitch very well today. Still a mystery why he didn't go another inning.

 

Shocking that our #4-5 been our best starters.

[a700hitter]

I was at the game today. It was pretty brutal. It was one of the worst losses to the Yankees that I have witnessed, and I have been around a long time. It wasn't the worst I have been witnessed, but it was up there. As soon as the Yankees took the lead 10-9, we left and went to the BBQ restaurant. Once we were behind, it was over. Even if we had held it at 10-9, they had Robertson and Mo waiting and we had 3 hitters left in the lineup with Youk out. Ortiz would not see a pitch with Nate Spears on deck. The Yankee fans were really getting loud, and I knew when to cut my losses. As we were leaving my son said that it was like watching a Double Header where we won the first game and lost the second game. It was like night and day== the fun of the first six innings and the despair of the final 3 innings.

 

On the drive up this morning, we were shooting the bull about the Sox, and I said that the bullpen was our Achilles heel and that we were going to have to bludgeon teams to win. My son said that he didn't think the pen was too bad. With that, I asked him to name four reliable arms in our pen. That's the minimum you need to get by in today's baseball IMO. I'm not talking about shut down guys like Papelbon and Bard. Those days are over for a while. I am just talking about 4 reliable guys to hand the ball in the late innings. My son couldn't name 4. Here's my list: Aceves, Padilla (after today, he's off the list), Morales, and Tazawa (still unproved). Those are the only 4 guys that I could hand the ball without vomiting. None of them are close to great. I'd probably replace Padilla with Atchinson after today's game. Of these guys, only Aceves has any real accomplishment as a late innings pitcher in pressure situations. That's pretty pathetic. Thomas and Albers have to be sent away. They stink.

 

I said it before spring training started that the late innings would be very painful for us fans. I'm not patting myself on the back. There's no genius to that prediction. Look at the names that I just gave you above. These are nobodys. They are totally unaccomplished except for Aceves. Padilla was once a good starter, but he is over the hill by 4 years, never mind his mental disorder. If Bailey had stayed healthy, our pen would still stink, because it would still not have 4 reliable arms.

 

High points of the game:

 

Doubront looked great. His ball is very live, good movement. He makes batters very uncomfortable. He has great poise. He could be a real keeper.

 

Ortiz remains great

 

Sweeney continues to surprise. He can take the ball down either line.

 

Salty may be breaking out of his horrendous slump and be back to being adequate.

 

Cody Ross continues to show good power at the plate.

 

Negatives other than the bullpen:

 

Aviles looked like a clown at SS

 

Nate Spears being on the 25 man Roster is an embarrassment to the organization.

 

Youk getting hurt again.

 

I don't think it is a bad thing that this team is blowing up so early in the season. The team was very thin. There was no room for injury or under performance. The probability that injuries would occur and that the team would blow up was not insubstantial. It would only take a few injuries to reveal all of the inadequacies. Well, the inadequacies are in the open for all to see and we haven't yet played 1/10th of the schedule. There is plenty of time to address theses issue. They are fatal flaws if they are not addressed, but they are not insurmountable if they are addressed. The offense should be fine. Crawford hit another HR today. He will be back in a couple of weeks. The starters look like they have promise to be a strong unit. The glaring gaping hole is the bullpen. They need to get a couple of competent arms that will not cause cardiac arrest when they get the ball. The Offseason plan was poorly conceived and executed. It is time for plan B. Better now than later.

[ellsburyforMVP]

Honestly, if you want a real shake-up.... Bring cook up, move bard to closer....get oswalt at any cost, move dubront to set-up, please for the love of god put aceves back in at long relief ( he was amazing last yr ) before you know it, Bailey and dice-k will be back.....

 

Starters.. Lester,beckett,oswalt,bucholz,cook.... Dice-k and or dubront can make spot starts if needed.....

 

Bullpen.... Padilla,atchinson,morales,aceves, dubront, bailey, bard.... Maybe some dice-k to get some work in.....

 

There's your "rebuilding" for you Yankee pricks

[iortiz]

I was at the game today. It was pretty brutal. It was one of the worst losses to the Yankees that I have witnessed, and I have been around a long time. It wasn't the worst I have been witnessed, but it was up there. As soon as the Yankees took the lead 10-9, we left and went to the BBQ restaurant. Once we were behind, it was over. Even if we had held it at 10-9, they had Robertson and Mo waiting and we had 3 hitters left in the lineup with Youk out. Ortiz would not see a pitch with Nate Spears on deck. The Yankee fans were really getting loud, and I knew when to cut my losses. As we were leaving my son said that it was like watching a Double Header where we won the first game and lost the second game. It was like night and day== the fun of the first six innings and the despair of the final 3 innings.

 

On the drive up this morning, we were shooting the bull about the Sox, and I said that the bullpen was our Achilles heel and that we were going to have to bludgeon teams to win. My son said that he didn't think the pen was too bad. With that, I asked him to name four reliable arms in our pen. That's the minimum you need to get by in today's baseball IMO. I'm not talking about shut down guys like Papelbon and Bard. Those days are over for a while. I am just talking about 4 reliable guys to hand the ball in the late innings. My son couldn't name 4. Here's my list: Aceves, Padilla (after today, he's off the list), Morales, and Tazawa (still unproved). Those are the only 4 guys that I could hand the ball without vomiting. None of them are close to great. I'd probably replace Padilla with Atchinson after today's game. Of these guys, only Aceves has any real accomplishment as a late innings pitcher in pressure situations. That's pretty pathetic. Thomas and Albers have to be sent away. They stink.

 

I said it before spring training started that the late innings would be very painful for us fans. I'm not patting myself on the back. There's no genius to that prediction. Look at the names that I just gave you above. These are nobodys. They are totally unaccomplished except for Aceves. Padilla was once a good starter, but he is over the hill by 4 years, never mind his mental disorder. If Bailey had stayed healthy, our pen would still stink, because it would still not have 4 reliable arms.

 

High points of the game:

 

Doubront looked great. His ball is very live, good movement. He makes batters very uncomfortable. He has great poise. He could be a real keeper.

 

Ortiz remains great

 

Sweeney continues to surprise. He can take the ball down either line.

 

Salty may be breaking out of his horrendous slump and be back to being adequate.

 

Cody Ross continues to show good power at the plate.

 

Negatives other than the bullpen:

 

Aviles looked like a clown at SS

 

Nate Spears being on the 25 man Roster is an embarrassment to the organization.

 

Youk getting hurt again.

 

I don't think it is a bad thing that this team is blowing up so early in the season. The team was very thin. There was no room for injury or under performance. The probability that injuries would occur and that the team would blow up was not insubstantial. It would only take a few injuries to reveal all of the inadequacies. Well, the inadequacies are in the open for all to see and we haven't yet played 1/10th of the schedule. There is plenty of time to address theses issue. They are fatal flaws if they are not addressed, but they are not insurmountable if they are addressed. The offense should be fine. Crawford hit another HR today. He will be back in a couple of weeks. The starters look like they have promise to be a strong unit. The glaring gaping hole is the bullpen. They need to get a couple of competent arms that will not cause cardiac arrest when they get the ball. The Offseason plan was poorly conceived and executed. It is time for plan B. Better now than later.

As always, very clear and accurate in your ideas my friend. Great post.

 

I was having this BBQ with my father and mother as well while watching the game. When the 7th inning ended, all turned from happy faces to long faces. It was really heartbreaking. In your place, against your worst enemy and celebrating your 100 years, losing like this simply has no name. We ate 18 Rs a couple of days ago, yesterday 6, today 15.... what the hell is going on in our team?

 

Probably the sold out streak is in risk. John Henry needs to open the wallet or Ben needs to make a majestic trade, but something needs to happen, and soon.

[ellsburyforMVP]

I honestly doubt the streak is in any kind of trouble, especially seeing how almost all " tickets" are already accounted for this season..... Season ticket holders, ace tickets, all the seats owned by companies, countless other ticketing agencies.....each gm is pretty much "sold out" for the rest of season....

[Station 13]

Honestly, if you want a real shake-up.... Bring cook up, move bard to closer....get oswalt at any cost, move dubront to set-up, please for the love of god put aceves back in at long relief ( he was amazing last yr ) before you know it, Bailey and dice-k will be back.....

 

Starters.. Lester,beckett,oswalt,bucholz,cook.... Dice-k and or dubront can make spot starts if needed.....

 

Bullpen.... Padilla,atchinson,morales,aceves, dubront, bailey, bard.... Maybe some dice-k to get some work in.....

 

There's your "rebuilding" for you Yankee pricks

 

 

That's terrible. Doubront shown today he is a #2-3 type starter in him. He work the Yankees lineup tough, getting into their hands, sawing them up with his cutters. 1R in 6 Inning at Fenway is tough to pull out, especially against that lineup.

[a700hitter]

As always, very clear and accurate in your ideas my friend. Great post.

 

I was having this BBQ with my father and mother as well while watching the game. When the 7th inning ended, all turned from happy faces to long faces. It was really heartbreaking. In your place, against your worst enemy and celebrating your 100 years, losing like this simply has no name. We ate 18 Rs a couple of days ago, yesterday 6, today 15.... what the hell is going on in our team?

 

Probably the sold out streak is in risk. John Henry needs to open the wallet or Ben needs to make a majestic trade, but something needs to happen, and soon.

Yes iortiz, the time has come for them to act. Soon we will learn a lot about the owners commitment to this 2012 team. We will also learn about Ben Cherrington's capabilities.

[ellsburyforMVP]

That's terrible. Doubront shown today he is a #2-3 type starter in him. He work the Yankees lineup tough' date=' getting into their hands, sawing them up with his cutters. 1R in 6 Inning at Fenway is tough to pull out, especially against that lineup.[/quote']

 

I honestly don't see how you can say Felix looks like a #2-3 starter after 3 starts in which he has thrown 300 pitches in 16 innings??? He's had 3 starts ...2 of 5 innings, today 6 innings...avg's 100 pitches per outing.....and I don't see how you can that whole formula is "horrible" just because of Felix..... Our starting rotation would be just as good if not better and our bullpen would be 5x better

[Whatsinaname]

I prefer this shot nut bag

[a700hitter]

From Peter Abrahams. I completely agree with these sentiments. I left during the 8th inning. The loss was a foregone conclusion. I was not going to stay to watch the Yankees congratulate themselves and their fans gloat. I hate Sweet Caroline, but I really didn't want to hear that crap today.

 

The Red Sox allowed seven runs in the seventh inning and seven more in the eighth inning to blow a 9-1 lead. If ever there was a day to skip "Sweet Caroline," in favor of some decorum, this was it.

 

But the song played and on one of the most embarrassing days in franchise history, people sang, "So good! So good!" like they were drunk at a wedding.

 

It's only a song and if people want to sing, so be it. But let's forget about the notion that Fenway Park is a tough place to play and is full of hard-core fans. Because it's not any more. It's a place where people gleefully sing a cheesy song after their team blows a nine-run lead.

 

Nobody is singing when they home team is getting embarrassed at Yankee Stadium or Citizens Bank Park. Bruins fans weren't singing at the Garden Saturday. Either winning really matters or it doesn't. If it does, put the silly song on the shelf during games like this.

[FredLynn]

When I left the score was 9-1. I come home and find out we lost by SIX RUNS. Unbelievable. One of the worst bullpens in history is ours this year, all ours. Valentine has no resources out there. This franchise has gone downhill very very fast.

[Whatsinaname]

I'm still pissed off 7 hours after the event.

 

I'd have rather us get shelled early and the result be a fait accompli. This shite is painful and pitiful. A part of me wants the team to lose badly to force some sort of change. A few wins will just cover over the cracks in this team.

[IHATEYOU]

Today was a glaring example of why the sox need a shakeup. Your offense pounds the piss out of the ball' date=' your starter was dominant, yet your pen allowed 14 runs in 3 innings, with your closer unable to register an out. Your starters will start to struggle if they start feeling like they need to throw CG's to win[/quote']

 

15 runs. The Sox are not a concern to us in 2012. We need to focus on Texas, Tampa and Detroit. The Red Sox are rivals in name only.

[ellsburyforMVP]

15 runs. The Sox are not a concern to us in 2012. We need to focus on Texas' date=' Tampa and Detroit. The Red Sox are rivals in name only.[/quote']

 

Your 9-6...... Seriously?? The Yankees would be 2nd place in every other division right now, 3rd in another.... Don't act like you've got the east wrapped up troll

[Brennan]

I can't believe there are people here clamoring for Dice-K's return. We really have been reduced to picking the lesser of two evils at alot of positions, which would be understandable if we had a league average (take the yankoffs off the list lest we skew the numbers too badly) payroll. Been this way for about 4 years and counting now.

[SoxSport]

You always want to pitch lefties against the Yankees. The asymmetry of Yankee Stadium, with the short right field porch, has always been their secret weapon to success. They stack their lineup with left handed hitters. In Fenway or anywhere else, you want to throw LHP against them.

[SoxSport]

Cafardo in a Globe video this morning echoes the sense that Bard needs to close right now.

 

They lost their bullpen anchor when Bailey went down, and the front office failed to recognize the need to move Bard to closer before a lot of damage was done.

[SoxSport]

Cook is gone May 1 if they don't bring him up' date=' I think.[/quote']

 

It would seem to be a no brainer that he is brought up.

 

Pawtucket is tied for first place right now, 11-5 record. They should bring up the whole team.

I doubt they would do worse.

[SoxSport]

Doubront pitch very well today. Still a mystery why he didn't go another inning.

Shocking that our #4-5 been our best starters.

[KCBRUIN]

I can't believe there are people here clamoring for Dice-K's return. We really have been reduced to picking the lesser of two evils at alot of positions' date=' which would be understandable if we had a league average (take the yankoffs off the list lest we skew the numbers too badly) payroll. Been this way for about 4 years and counting now.[/quote']

 

Name one pitcher in our bullpen you'd rather have on the mound over Dice K right now? It's sad that he's probably our best hope of getting some good innings out of the pen, but I think it's true.