How about Daniel Bard so far?

[ORS]

How about you shut your mouth and just do what you are told to do?

 

You are an employee here for 3 more years. If you dont like your role at that time, sign somewhere else.

What is the problem with him being engaged in a discussion about where his career path is headed? This happens every day in the corporate world, and people who shut their mouth and do what they are told tend to experience less career growth. It's not a problem that he cares about his future or that he wants to talk about it. It's only a problem if he gets belligerent and his performance fades when he's at odds with his bosses over his role. That hasn't happened yet.

[VA Sox Fan]

bump

 

fyi Dojji

[Dojji]

Yeah yeah, didn't see it, can we move on?

[SoxSport]

Bard has been OK so far as a starter. But without a closer, he probably belongs in the bullpen as the anchor. They have other alternatives for starters.

 

Aceves has 5 saves as a closer so far, but a 12.00 ERA. Saves can be lisleading.

 

My guess is Bard closes when Dice-K is ready to start.

[BornToRun]

Bard has been OK so far as a starter. But without a closer, he probably belongs in the bullpen as the anchor. They have other alternatives for starters.

 

Aceves has 5 saves as a closer so far, but a 12.00 ERA. Saves can be lisleading.

 

My guess is Bard closes when Dice-K is ready to start.

 

God I hope not.

[User Name]

SoxSport is a broken record. He makes the same post with different words every time he logs in. It's like nails on a chalkboard.

[Dojji]

Bard has been OK so far as a starter. But without a closer, he probably belongs in the bullpen as the anchor. They have other alternatives for starters.

 

Aceves has 5 saves as a closer so far, but a 12.00 ERA. Saves can be lisleading.

 

My guess is Bard closes when Dice-K is ready to start.

 

You never bolster your bullpen at the expense of your rotation.

 

Never. Ever.

[SoxSport]

You never bolster your bullpen at the expense of your rotation.

 

Never. Ever.

 

I would agree with you 20 years ago when starters completed games and the bullpen was less important.

 

It really depends on how important you make the bullpen. The last couple of games, since the Doubront mistake, Bobby has been extending the starters beyond 6 innings and 100 pitches. That takes the heat off the bullpen.

 

But closers are made to be important. They can win or lose a game in the 9th inning, so you have to have a reliable one. Leyland has blown 2 wins for Verlander by taking him out after 8innings with a lead. Fixing what wasn't broke.

 

I say make the starters more important --again.

[User Name]

I would agree with you 20 years ago when starters completed games and the bullpen was less important.

 

It really depends on how important you make the bullpen. The last couple of games, since the Doubront mistake, Bobby has been extending the starters beyond 6 innings and 100 pitches. That takes the heat off the bullpen.

 

But closers are made to be important. They can win or lose a game in the 9th inning, so you have to have a reliable one. Leyland has blown 2 wins for Verlander by taking him out after 8innings with a lead. Fixing what wasn't broke.

 

I say make the starters more important --again.

 

This is a typical example of flawed SoxSports logic. The reason Verlander lost his first game (the one in which he allowed 4 ER) was because the manager let him start the 9th after he was clearly gassed, he gave up a run and loaded the bases with one out, and then the closer came in, set up to fail, and gave up the tying run. I was watching that game because i have Verlander on two fantasy teams.

 

Stop making s*** up.

[User Name]

My recollection is a bit off, but way more accurate than repeater guy:

 

Here's the log for that 9th inning against Tampa:

 

Top 9th: Tampa Bay

- C. Thomas in right field

- J. Keppinger hit for S. Rodriguez

- J. Keppinger singled to shallow center

- R. Brignac struck out swinging

- D. Jennings singled to shallow right, J. Keppinger to third

- C. Pena walked, D. Jennings to second, J. Keppinger scored on wild pitch

- E. Longoria singled to shallow left, D. Jennings scored, C. Pena to second

- D. Schlereth relieved J. Verlander

- E. Johnson hit for M. Joyce

- E. Johnson walked, C. Pena to third, E. Longoria to second

- J. Valverde relieved D. Schlereth

- B. Zobrist singled to shallow center, C. Pena and E. Longoria scored, E. Johnson to second

- S. Vogt flied out to left

- J. Lobaton walked, E. Johnson to third, B. Zobrist to second

- J. Keppinger grounded into fielder's choice, J. Lobaton out at second

[User Name]

My recollection is a bit off, but way more accurate than repeater guy:

 

Here's the log for that 9th inning against Tampa:

 

Top 9th: Tampa Bay

- C. Thomas in right field

- J. Keppinger hit for S. Rodriguez

- J. Keppinger singled to shallow center

- R. Brignac struck out swinging

- D. Jennings singled to shallow right, J. Keppinger to third

- C. Pena walked, D. Jennings to second, J. Keppinger scored on wild pitch

- E. Longoria singled to shallow left, D. Jennings scored, C. Pena to second

- D. Schlereth relieved J. Verlander

- E. Johnson hit for M. Joyce

- E. Johnson walked, C. Pena to third, E. Longoria to second

- J. Valverde relieved D. Schlereth

- B. Zobrist singled to shallow center, C. Pena and E. Longoria scored, E. Johnson to second

- S. Vogt flied out to left

- J. Lobaton walked, E. Johnson to third, B. Zobrist to second

- J. Keppinger grounded into fielder's choice, J. Lobaton out at second

 

That and the Yankees game in which Verlander got smacked around a bit are his only two starts in which Detroit has lost. His opening day start doesn't even count, because he had 105 pitches in the first game of the season. Pushing a guy up to 120 pitches on the season's first game is idiotic.There hasn't been a single game Detroit has lost this season because Leyland "took out Verlander while they were leading".

 

Seriously, really, honestly, stop making stuff up.

[SCM33]

You never bolster your bullpen at the expense of your rotation.

 

Never. Ever.

 

So s***** starters are better than elite closers?

 

Not saying Bard is s*****, but thats a terrible argument.

 

Mariano Rivera. Dennis Eckersley.......

 

All closers or relievers.....are not starters, because they were not very good at it. Bard is a work in progress.

[mvp 78]

Eckersley was a s***** starter? He once won 20 games... Not very good I guess...

[jacksonianmarch]

What is the problem with him being engaged in a discussion about where his career path is headed? This happens every day in the corporate world' date=' and people who shut their mouth and do what they are told[b'] tend to experience less career growth[/b]. It's not a problem that he cares about his future or that he wants to talk about it. It's only a problem if he gets belligerent and his performance fades when he's at odds with his bosses over his role. That hasn't happened yet.

 

and are much more expendable in times of strife due to lack of initiative

[SoxSport]

Eckersley was a s***** starter? He once won 20 games... Not very good I guess...

 

Interesting comparsion.

 

Eck was a top starter, then declined and moved to the bullpen where he became a HOF closer. As I recall, he declined as a starter in Boston and they traded him. He was made a closer in Oakland? and the rest is history. I believe he had a drinking problem in Boston, which may have been a factor.

 

Another example was Smoltz. He wasn't in decline as a starter, but was converted to closer--successfully.

[User Name]

Smoltz was recovering from an elbow injury that didn't allow him to throw 100 pitches per game.

[SCM33]

Eckersley was a s***** starter? He once won 20 games... Not very good I guess...

 

So did Jose Lima.

[Elktonnick]

Bard's performance as a starter to date has been very good. Nevertheless, virtually evryone concedes that he will eventually return to the bullpen this year. It is unlikely that the Sox will want him to pitch more than 150 innings this season. Everything I've read on the subject indicates it isn't in Bard's interest as a future starter to pitch more than that number of innings his first year starting. If this is true his transition back to the pen will be interesting and potentially controversial. He has already shown a reluctance to pitch two days in a row. How they manage Bard especially once Dice-K returns assuming one of the other starters doesn't go down will be one the continuing story lines of this season.

[Dojji]

Interesting comparsion.

 

Eck was a top starter, then declined and moved to the bullpen where he became a HOF closer. As I recall, he declined as a starter in Boston and they traded him. He was made a closer in Oakland? and the rest is history. I believe he had a drinking problem in Boston, which may have been a factor.

 

Another example was Smoltz. He wasn't in decline as a starter, but was converted to closer--successfully.

 

Successfully, but not necessarily intelligently.

[Dojji]

Bard's performance as a starter to date has been very good. Nevertheless' date=' virtually evryone concedes that he will eventually return to the bullpen this year. It is unlikely that the Sox will want him to pitch more than 150 innings this season. Everything I've read on the subject indicates it isn't in Bard's interest as a future starter to pitch more than that number of innings his first year starting. If this is true his transition back to the pen will be interesting and potentially controversial. He has already shown a reluctance to pitch two days in a row. How they manage Bard especially once Dice-K returns assuming one of the other starters doesn't go down will be one the continuing story lines of this season.[/quote']

I have heard no indication from the front office of an innings cap on Bard. That is speculation on the part of fans. It's not baseless, but it is speculation

[jung]

As much as I like Buch, if he is still pitching like he is pitching and Doubront and Bard are still pitching the way they are pitching when dice comes back it might be Buch that gets a break to make room for dice.

 

My worry about Buch is that he is no longer the guy progressing up the Sox rotation totem pole and I really don't think he will be again.

 

He gained weight with a purpose for last season and now that is being looked upon as part of his back issues. So now his weight is back down again but he looks anemic at this point. So he needed the weight but his back would not allow him to pitch with it. Now the weight is off but doesn't that mean he is right back were he was before putting on the weight?

 

I think a 3 is as high as Buch is going to get and he might have problems holding onto that spot the way Doubront and Bard are coming on. With Cook in the immediate plans and dice not far off, this is a nice problem to have.

 

Lester had a great start last time out but I still think he is inconsistent and has still not even once succeeded when given the opportunity to be a stopper. So for now I still think the biggest issues in the rotation are at 1 and 3, not at 2, 4 or 5.

[kapsis21]

Lester had a great start last time out but I still think he is inconsistent and has still not even once succeeded when given the opportunity to be a stopper. So for now I still think the biggest issues in the rotation are at 1 and 3, not at 2, 4 or 5.

 

i dont worry about Lester as much as i worry about Buch. his fast ball has been right on the meat of the plate, and once he is able to locate he might start to get his feel back. he was hitting 94 in Minnesota but they were really flat. there wasn't much to his fast ball.

 

and with Cook and DiceK coming up soon some tough decisions will have to be made.

[jung]

I suspect that what we might see is Cook come up into a relief role to begin with. The likely candidate at this point is likely our buddy Fat Albers. Albers is inconsistent. I don't like the way they used Atch last night as I still don't think he can reliably come in and get the Sox out of jams but used the right way Atch is a reliable relief pitcher.

 

I would like to see Cook against ML hitters before suggesting he can move into some rotation role. The number of guys going down that have just been creamed up here but have had marvelous success down there makes me really wonder how much of a challenge they are getting down there in AAA.

 

If Cook proves out, maybe Buch will need to continue his "working" recovery in Pawtucket for a bit.

 

When dice gets back, maybe Bard will go back to the bullpen at that point. I think that has been the likely plan all along but it really does depend on who is getting the job done at that point. Right now, on a consistent basis, the 2, 4 and 5 are the guys getting the job done. Really hard in my view to shoehorn successful starters out of their roles.

 

I know, I know about the Bard to the closer question but I keep reminding people that while he was being groomed as a closer, the Sox flipped all of that on its ear. I simply don't buy the argument that they did it because Bard "wanted" to start. I do think that Bard's desires played into the decision but were far from critical to it. Aceves wanted to start as well.....see him starting? I think the question of whether the Sox ultimately decided that closing was not in his blood, will likely be resolved when dice comes back.

[Elktonnick]

I have heard no indication from the front office of an innings cap on Bard. That is speculation on the part of fans. It's not baseless' date=' but it [b']is[/b] speculation

 

Not from the fans but from virtually every sports writer who follows this team. Besides why would the front office make such a statement now.

[mvp 78]

So did Jose Lima.

 

The exception proves the rule. Eck was a good starter for a decade. He became a reliever 10+ years into his decent career.

 

Also, why don't you care about the Pats anymore?

[SCM33]

The exception proves the rule. Eck was a good starter for a decade. He became a reliever 10+ years into his decent career.

 

Also, why don't you care about the Pats anymore?

 

I love the Pats pretty much more than anything in the world haha. They are my escape from reality.

 

Talkpats has just been so slow, its hard to have regular conversation over there when there are only a few people posting. Every year it starts up pretty strong, and fizzles by the end.

[Dojji]

Let's also get into the question of who converted Eck to a reliever.

 

Namely, the A's. Baseball's perennial national monument to just how much this game can be overthought.

[SoxSport]

Let's also get into the question of who converted Eck to a reliever.

 

Namely, the A's. Baseball's perennial national monument to just how much this game can be overthought.

 

Wasn't it LaRussa? He managed the As in those days.

[mvp 78]

Wasn't it LaRussa? He managed the As in those days.

 

And what has he ever won?

[SCM33]

Let's also get into the question of who converted Eck to a reliever.

 

Namely, the A's. Baseball's perennial national monument to just how much this game can be overthought.

 

Wasn't it LaRussa? He managed the As in those days.

 

And what has he ever won?

 

Not sure I understand this back and forth.

 

I think Dojji is putting Larussa and the A's down.....meanwhile mvp78 is making a sarcastic comment.....

 

Dojji, you know that Larussa won 3 WS and is third all time in wins right?