Doubront named 4th starter

[Dojji]

It's true. He threw in 63 games last year, and of those, only 34 were save situations. I know you're going to have to get your closer into more than just 34 games during the year, but getting him in around 50 games total for the year should be plenty, especially in a season like last season when this team was playoff bound nearly the entire year until September 28th. Gotta save those bullets.

 

Valentine, I think, is quite the opposite. I think he'll play the matchups much more than Francona ever did rather than relying on 2 relievers the entire year.

 

Have a look at the Rays bullpen the past few years. They are consistently putting up a sub 3.70 ERA. And look at the talent they have in their pen. It's nothing compared to the Sox bullpens, yet they are consistently better. Why? Because Maddon puts each of his relievers in their best chance to succeed. He throws lefties vs lefties. He's not too lazy to make a pitching change once the advantage of a situational pitcher goes away.

 

Mid 60's games is fine for a reliever who's a closer and your best reliever. Little heavy, but standard for a closer. Again, Paps was one of our most solid pitchers out of the pen. He's a guy I want coming out regularly.

 

If you think 60 IP is abusive, take a look at Keith Foulke's workload sometime.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Mid 60's games is fine for a reliever who's a closer and your best reliever. Little heavy, but standard for a closer. Again, Paps was one of our most solid pitchers out of the pen. He's a guy I want coming out regularly.

 

If you think 60 IP is abusive, take a look at Keith Foulke's workload sometime.

 

I'm not saying it's abusive, but if you're a team who is almost certainly going to the post season (which they were), then 63 appearances with only 34 save opportunities is pretty crazy. Like I said - Save those bullets for the post season.

[Dojji]

How many of those were Paps coming in to hold the tie?

[mvp 78]

People woul rather the closer not pitch for a week?

[jung]

This is the same Paps people are saying did not get it done at the end of the season.....No? Maybe that many appearances without a save opportunity did come back to haunt the Sox......maybe not.

[SCM33]

When you take away Papelbon's ability to close out big games, what does he have? A 3.00 ERA over the last three years, and generally great-- but not elite-- numbers. Rivera has a full ERA point over Papelbon from 2009-2011. A full point.

 

Scott Downs, who earned his keep in Toronto, has a better ERA over the last three years.

And yet, Papelbon was just handed the richest contract for any closer ever. Why? Because he has the ability to close big games.... oh wait....

 

You really are underestimating him. Look, I cant stand the guy. I think hes a **********. I think hes selfish. I think hes a pompous *******.....but he was DAMN good at what he did. His ability to close out big games and his ability to not allow bad outings effect him were worth it alone.

 

The guy was almost a sure thing. He made 9 inning games, 8 inning games.

 

There will be many times this year when we wished he were still closing out games for us.....and I will be there to say I told you so.

 

That selfish, pompous, arrogant cockersucker will be missed.

 

Papelbon isnt irreplaceable. He's just difficult to replace due to his durability and consistency. You knew the guy was going to be healthy and finish near 90% of his games. His career save % is 89%. In only one season has he blown more than 6 and had a lower save % than 85%. You also knew he could play in Fenway' date=' which isnt a given these days. You got Bailey. He's lights out when healthy, but he is frequently injured and is likely to start the season on the DL. Not a good start[/quote']

 

Shameful that a Yankees fan gets it better than most Sox fans.

[jung]

One thing I forgot about which may have been a factor for Paps is that as it got later in the season there were more instances where Tito used Paps for more than one inning per stint. Now that I remember it, I do remember how much his fastball seemed to flatten out in some of those circumstances.

 

If Paps did get a bit tired at the end of last season, maybe it was a combination of factors including the number of times when he was forced to go multiple innings when he was really not prepared to do that.

[iortiz]

You really are underestimating him. Look, I cant stand the guy. I think hes a **********. I think hes selfish. I think hes a pompous *******.....but he was DAMN good at what he did. His ability to close out big games and his ability to not allow bad outings effect him were worth it alone.

 

The guy was almost a sure thing. He made 9 inning games, 8 inning games.

 

There will be many times this year when we wished he were still closing out games for us.....and I will be there to say I told you so.

 

That selfish, pompous, arrogant cockersucker will be missed.

 

 

 

Shameful that a Yankees fan gets it better than most Sox fans.

 

As always SCM33 I agree with you.

 

As I said a couple of times, Do not be surprised if Pap ends up his career with something around Mo's line.

[User Name]

One thing I forgot about which may have been a factor for Paps is that as it got later in the season there were more instances where Tito used Paps for more than one inning per stint. Now that I remember it, I do remember how much his fastball seemed to flatten out in some of those circumstances.

 

If Paps did get a bit tired at the end of last season, maybe it was a combination of factors including the number of times when he was forced to go multiple innings when he was really not prepared to do that.

 

Bard seemed to be affected by the same issues as well.

[iortiz]

Well, seems like Tito's departure is an improvement by subtraction as well.

[jung]

Bard seemed to be affected by the same issues as well.

 

That could be as well. The only reason I remembered it at all about Paps as this discussion progressed is because since he was the closer I would watch pretty carefully to see how he was handling multiple innings. You could really tell that at times he was often struggling with it. As hitters concentrated and focused harder (not unusual for late innings) they would foul off more pitches and I can remember instances where Paps was visibly tiring. His fastball would suffer for it. Can't remember much about velocity but the pitch definitely would flatten out some.

 

To his credit he never shrank from the challenge. There is just so much somebody has got to give though and as much as he could be a wild man I did really feel for him in those instances. We all know what it feels like to have the strength just leak out of you. Not something I relish nor wish on anybody.

[a700hitter]

Papelbon isn't irreplaceable, they just haven't replaced him yet.

 

Seriously, although I believe he has peaked, he's still going to be a very legitimate closer for a few years.

It took more than 40 years to replace Dick "the Monster" Radatz. Maybe this time it will only take 20 years.

[Dojji]

Well' date=' seems like Tito's departure is an improvement by subtraction as well.[/quote']

 

I really doubt it. Terry Francona wasn't a worldbeater, but he was a competent manager for most of his tenure, and he got the talent out of his players that he should have gotten.

[iortiz]

I really doubt it. Terry Francona wasn't a worldbeater' date=' but he was a competent manager for most of his tenure, and he got the talent out of his players that he should have gotten.[/quote']

 

IMHO I think he was kind of soft at times. I did not like the famous 7-rule. We needed a new voice, and now V has the controls, but making a balance probably you are right.

[Dojji]

Nothing you said is untrue, but it doesn't change anything I said either.

[seabeachfred]

I think the team will be better served my friends with Valentine at the help instead of Francona, but can at least face the truth that we will miss Papelbon no matter what some of us might have thought of him. He saved close to 90% of the games he was entrusted with, didn't he? And right now our closer is on the shelf as we get bellied up to the regular season. No matter how tough Bailey is it will be hard for him to outdo what Jonathan did for us, including his brilliant work that winning 2007 season when he was called on more times than I would have liked for the safety of his arm.

 

An outstanding closer is worth his weight in gold and we only have to look over at Yankee Stadium for proof of that. Yes, there were times that Paps really pissed me off but looking at the whole package I was glad he was on our side and not the other. He is only 30 years old and I believe he has some good years left. Personally I wish him well---and please keep in mind the decision was the Red Sox to let him walk. I can't begruge a closer who was able to get that kind of contract, especially since his former team didn't even offer him the time of day.

[RedSoxNC84]

I suppose if (when) Bailey goes down, we could always call up Foulke.