Valentine's Big Mouth

[pedroias laser]

Don't you think that its Schilling's job to bring up items of a controversial nature regardless of how it affects the team? He works for ESPN, not the Boston Red Sox. When Valentine worked for ESPN he also was critical of some of our players. For what the Blowhard did for this team I will always have a soft spot for him. But even if he never played for us, he is doing what he is supposed to be doing for his employer.

As to the content of what he is saying, I hope he is right. I want some discomfort amongst the players. That way I know that meaningful change is probably taking place. Had the Fenway Country Club continued there would be no rumblings of discontent because the players did whatever they wanted to do, including walking all over their manager.

This is all good folks. Its a positive development. Progress is being made. Win or lose this year we should be well positioned to make a run at a ring next year or the year after that.

 

 

 

I completely agree since he works for ESPN he has a primary objective and that is to

keep his job. The problem i have with Schilling is that it's blatantly obvious he does not

like BV which is fine with me, But to do it at a time when this franchise is searching

for answers from last year is not.

[FredLynn]

Hey Pumpsie' date=' welcome back for the start of the season.[/quote']

 

Thanks 700. Not really sure how much I will be here. I sort of enjoyed my time away (not that I didn't deserve to be banned). I was able to accomplish a great deal with the other things I enjoy doing, and I already post regularly on another board.

We'll see how it goes.

[a700hitter]

I completely agree since he works for ESPN he has a primary objective and that is to

keep his job. The problem i have with Schilling is that it's blatantly obvious he does not

like BV which is fine with me, But to do it at a time when this franchise is searching

for answers from last year is not.

I said it earlier in this thread. If anyone on the Sox is affected by Schilling's or anyone else's comments, they are just losers looking for excuses. None of this matters. He's free to hate Bobby V. There's a long line for that. LOL!

[SoxSport]

I completely agree since he works for ESPN he has a primary objective and that is to

keep his job. The problem i have with Schilling is that it's blatantly obvious he does not

like BV which is fine with me, But to do it at a time when this franchise is searching

for answers from last year is not.

 

ESPN is not a Red Sox mouthpiece, which is an understatement. They are NY--in a nutshell. That's their market. Sure, they finally came out with a Boston version. But they have always been NY, which means they stroke the Yankees and all the other NY teams. If you work for ESPN, you are expected to say nice things about the Yankees, and not so nice things about the Red Sox.

 

Schil's job is to come up with digs about the Red Sox. Same with Tito. Same with Bobby before he became fair game himself by putting on a Red Sox cap. The same thing, actually, with Gammons when he signed a big contract with ESPN years ago. He had to wear a NY cap--in part. He is now safely back in New England, and has become Red Sox friendly again.

[SoxSport]

From WEEI

 

Beckett: Is Schilling one of our pitchers?

By: Paul Flannery

 

Responding to Curt Schilling's criticism that things aren't going well in Red Sox camp under manager Bobby Valentine, Sox pitcher Josh Beckett said in an interview with The Big Show, "I haven't seen him around this year. Is he one of our pitchers?"

 

"I haven't seen him around," Beckett continued. "I'd think if someone knew that much they'd probably be a little closer to it. Game's a lot easier from over there [as a media petrson], I think. As far as him speaking about how things are being run, I haven't seen him around here to where he would know that much."

 

Beckett said that things have been "great" with Valentine and he's particular liked some of the changes he's made for the pitchers.

 

"My legs have never felt this good coming out of spring training," Beckett said. "We don't shag during spring training. [Valentine] actually said that, 'We run a shag-free spring training.' Some of that, not being on my feet during spring training has been helped. I definitely think some of the stretching and workouts have paid off well for me."

 

The pitcher acknowledged that the Sox have to get off to a better start this season.

 

"We definitely have to do better than we did last April, especially at the beginning," he said. "I know we started to kind of play a bit better toward the end of April, but we definitely have to do better than we did last April. You can't put yourself in that hole and expect to dig yourselves out of it again. I think everybody here knows that and we're going to go out and play our tails off."

 

 

Every time I see what Beckett says in an interview, or hear him on TV, I don't see the same Beckett as being portrayed by the Globe or ESPN or the rest of the media.

[User Name]

From WEEI

 

Beckett: Is Schilling one of our pitchers?

By: Paul Flannery

 

Responding to Curt Schilling's criticism that things aren't going well in Red Sox camp under manager Bobby Valentine, Sox pitcher Josh Beckett said in an interview with The Big Show, "I haven't seen him around this year. Is he one of our pitchers?"

 

"I haven't seen him around," Beckett continued. "I'd think if someone knew that much they'd probably be a little closer to it. Game's a lot easier from over there [as a media petrson], I think. As far as him speaking about how things are being run, I haven't seen him around here to where he would know that much."

 

Beckett said that things have been "great" with Valentine and he's particular liked some of the changes he's made for the pitchers.

 

"My legs have never felt this good coming out of spring training," Beckett said. "We don't shag during spring training. [Valentine] actually said that, 'We run a shag-free spring training.' Some of that, not being on my feet during spring training has been helped. I definitely think some of the stretching and workouts have paid off well for me."

 

The pitcher acknowledged that the Sox have to get off to a better start this season.

 

"We definitely have to do better than we did last April, especially at the beginning," he said. "I know we started to kind of play a bit better toward the end of April, but we definitely have to do better than we did last April. You can't put yourself in that hole and expect to dig yourselves out of it again. I think everybody here knows that and we're going to go out and play our tails off."

 

This is all a cover up!!! Beckett's the snitch!!11!!

[User Name]

ESPN is not a Red Sox mouthpiece, which is an understatement. They are NY--in a nutshell. That's their market. Sure, they finally came out with a Boston version. But they have always been NY, which means they stroke the Yankees and all the other NY teams. If you work for ESPN, you are expected to say nice things about the Yankees, and not so nice things about the Red Sox.

 

Schil's job is to come up with digs about the Red Sox. Same with Tito. Same with Bobby before he became fair game himself by putting on a Red Sox cap. The same thing, actually, with Gammons when he signed a big contract with ESPN years ago. He had to wear a NY cap--in part. He is now safely back in New England, and has become Red Sox friendly again.

 

Yet the media lambasted the Yankees (specially ESPN) during every MLB steroid-related scandal during the last decade and shits on the Mets and Jets every chance they get.

[YAZMAN]

I completely sold that Schilling is starting this whole mess since he has or had a bromance

with Francona. I appreciate Schilling and everything he has brought to this franchise but

i think it's time to shut up and be objective.

 

Stuff a sock in it. In fact, here's one:

 

http://www.halloffamememorabilia.com/images/products/p-84428-curt-schilling-ultimate-red-sock-2004-8x10-photo-cotg-8mlb-cschi02.jpg

 

[YAZMAN]

Oh, and welcome aboard there Laser Show.:thumbsup:

[mvp 78]

This is all a cover up!!! Beckett's the snitch!!11!!

 

I heard Tito startedthe Hazel Mae rumors to make people think he had game.

[User Name]

I heard Tito startedthe Hazel Mae rumors to make people think he had game.

 

And it worked! Go figure!

[seabeachfred]

Bill Lee was a left wing nut job, and that never bothered me. I still like the guy. He was a great competitor and a Yankee killer. For that, he should hold a special place for Sox fans, and his legacy pales next to Big Schill's.

 

Like I said earlier, no one was a bigger blowhard than Ted Williams. I guess the great icon was just lucky that he didn't play in the days of 24/7 news cycles and the internet. He's still on a pedestal for me.

 

You have extremists on both sides of the political spectrum but I never hear the media or some of the lefties on this board ever mention the liberal goons who are trying to turn this country into a European socialist "paradise". Yea, right!!!!! How's that working over there? For the record, Schilling is not a right wing nut job; he is conservative Republican and I am an ardent and passionate conservative Republican as well. You want a real nut job? Try lefties Matt Damon an Ben Affleck, good Red Sox fans both, but two politican morons who whenever they entertain themselves to talk politics sound like the village idiots.

 

What ever happened to the political thread on this board anyway? We should have one so none of us have to defend our political beliefs on a baseball thread. Any chance of one yeszir?

[User Name]

Because this is a baseball site and political threads usually turn into flaming shitstorms.

 

The administrator here is completely against them iirc.

[Spudboy]

Why are we even listening to what Curt Schilling says? The guy serves no other purpose but getting his loud mouth heard. He spouts off about everything whether he is qualified to do so or not' date=' just ignore him.[/quote']

 

Amen.

 

While I am fully appreciative of what he did to HELP the Sox win two titles, He is, in my opinion, an unadulterated self promoter.

[Spudboy]

Schilling knows more about video games than managing, and he's not very good at that either.

 

Great pitcher, a blowhard, video game addict, right wing nutball who needed corporate welfare to grow his company. You can't denegrate his Sox contributions, but saying he'll never be wrong is laughable.

 

Excellent post. Thank you for saving me the time it would have taken to say the same thing.

[seabeachfred]

Stuff a sock in it. In fact, here's one:

 

http://www.halloffamememorabilia.com/images/products/p-84428-curt-schilling-ultimate-red-sock-2004-8x10-photo-cotg-8mlb-cschi02.jpg

 

 

Yazman, no one could mistake me for a Schillingphobe. I love the guy and what he did for our team, and no doubt he was a winner for us...Two WS Titles in four years. Still, I think he may have gone out of his way to throw a few grenades at Valentine and the Red Sox. To be sure, this is only my opinion but that whole exchange I read by him sounded like sour grapes from a revered player (also in my opinion) who still is harping on the fact that his friend Francona was shown the door by the front office. What cinches it for me is what Josh Beckett, supposedly one of Valentine's foils, said today. Beckett said things are running much better than last year and he likes the way things are going.

 

Hell, if Valentine has made peace with Beckett and now Crawford is singing the manager's praises, you have to figure that most of the team is pleased that the team is taking a turn for the better in the development and fundamentals department. Again, I have a hard time not believing that there might have a tad of animus in what Schilling said. I hope I am wrong.

[Spudboy]

I think the Schilling comments are distracting us from a potential development that is far more disconcerting to me at least. That is the continued presence of John Lackey in the clubhouse. Apparently Lackey wants to spend a great of time with the team this year. Somehow I don't see how that is a good thing' date=' if true.[/quote']

 

Why?

[jung]

Sure it is Schill's job for the most part to stir the pot. Although that was not previously so tempting a target for sports journalists it seems to be the target of preference for some of the sports journalist, especially those that are ex-athletes.

 

I have no problem with Schill having an opinion. As I stated earlier, if his opinion is not good enough to be voiced without drawing these obtuse, nebulous and ham handed references to player comments of unknown content or context then his opinion is not good enough as in not worthy of public consumption.

 

His comments were all breathless pantings, a teenager fumbling around looking for the hook on the bra. Either somebody needs to polish him up before turning him loose or he needs to find another line of work.

[Spudboy]

You have extremists on both sides of the political spectrum but I never hear the media or some of the lefties on this board ever mention the liberal goons who are trying to turn this country into a European socialist "paradise". Yea, right!!!!! How's that working over there? For the record, Schilling is not a right wing nut job; he is conservative Republican and I am an ardent and passionate conservative Republican as well. You want a real nut job? Try lefties Matt Damon an Ben Affleck, good Red Sox fans both, but two politican morons who whenever they entertain themselves to talk politics sound like the village idiots.

 

What ever happened to the political thread on this board anyway? We should have one so none of us have to defend our political beliefs on a baseball thread. Any chance of one yeszir?

 

Christ.

[YAZMAN]

Yazman, no one could mistake me for a Schillingphobe. I love the guy and what he did for our team, and no doubt he was a winner for us...Two WS Titles in four years. Still, I think he may have gone out of his way to throw a few grenades at Valentine and the Red Sox. To be sure, this is only my opinion but that whole exchange I read by him sounded like sour grapes from a revered player (also in my opinion) who still is harping on the fact that his friend Francona was shown the door by the front office. What cinches it for me is what Josh Beckett, supposedly one of Valentine's foils, said today. Beckett said things are running much better than last year and he likes the way things are going.

 

Hell, if Valentine has made peace with Beckett and now Crawford is singing the manager's praises, you have to figure that most of the team is pleased that the team is taking a turn for the better in the development and fundamentals department. Again, I have a hard time not believing that there might have a tad of animus in what Schilling said. I hope I am wrong.

 

Well, I was just giving new guy the business there a little. That being said, sure Schilling like to stir it up and get attention. But there are a few differences in my book between him and BV. First, aside from the fact that he's a winner and he delivered, is that he's way brighter than BV. You may disagree with what he says, but it still is very clear and makes sense. And it's tougher to disagree with a guy who has trusted and followed his instincts to so much success. But more than that, he takes responsibility for what he says. BV's "I don't criticize, I just tell the truth" crap is a spineless cop out. No ownership, just a free pass to run his mouth with perceived impunity. So, in my book, not only is he a loud-mouthed opinionated egocentric dullard, he's also a pussy cheap shot artist.

 

I'd take Schilling and his opinion over BV any day.

[Elktonnick]

Why?

 

Lackey's penchant for self-pity, showing up his manager and team mates and his general lack of character.

[jung]

The offering of an opinion without substance to support it and in fact contrary to the evidence that does exist is the very definition of a cheap shot. Hence I would surmise that V has nothing on Schill in that regard but would instead offer that they are birds of a feather.

[jung]

I was listening to Dennis and Callahan this morning, something I rarely do because I believe them to be a pair of mind numbing bobble-headed idiots on an epic scale. The fact that they seem to think themselves worthy to offer us comment on a broad range of topics outside of sports makes it that much more likely that I call them to task.

 

Sports is really entertainment but I still think Sports Media personalities have some responsibility to maintain certain standards. If media personalities think themselves worthy to venture into areas outside of sports and entertainment then I am really going to have my antenna up and hold them to a higher standard.

 

Dennis and Callahan's defense of Schill was wrong headed in every possible way because it begins from the wrong premise.

 

Schill is not a Sports Reporter which is the entire basis of the D&C defense of Schill. Schill is a Sports Journalist although from the D&C comments this morning I am no longer convinced that they or possibly even Schill know the difference.

 

Sports Reporting is just what you might think. "Pedroia went 3 for 5 today" is reporting. When a media personality offers us his thoughts he is offering his opinion which resides within the domain of journalism. Following is Schills comments direct from the WEEI web site. The quotation marks are WEEI's not mine:

 

Schilling said, "I like Bobby. I like him a lot," after working with Valentine at ESPN last season. However, Schilling said, "I thought that the manager that managed the Mets that I was not a big fan of was now going to be a different manager, and I don't think there's anything different at all. And I don't think that that is going to be conducive to doing well here. There's a lot of things I think that are happening not just from his perspective, but when you talk to these guys -- and I'm still talking to some of these guys -- I don't think this is going well. And I think it's going bad quicker than I expected it to."

 

Schill offered us the benefit of what he is thinking no less than six times in that short piece, never offering one single bit of reporting in the process. In addition, Schill's only supporting argument for his opinion or opinions was a vague, nebulous reference to conversions with players that was offered without the inclusion of specific comment or context.

 

When you offer your opinion and your only supporting argument happens to be vague and nebulous AND contrary to the comments that players are actually willing to attach their names to (see Beckett's comments on WEEI from Thursday) you have just leveled a cheap shot at your target. Schill "cheap shot" V in the truest sense of the use of the term. The only other thing Schill offered us would appear to be an outright lie as offering that sort of cheap shot would not seem the thing you would do to somebody that you "like" referring in this case to Schill claiming to like V.

 

I am willing in a sense to excuse Schill as this is simply not a job that he is equipped to do and either somebody should polish him, edit him, do something for him or get him off the air before he embarrasses himself in a way that is not recoverable.

 

However Dennis and Callahan are supposed to be seasoned, skilled, professional media personalities and their ham handed, mind numbing defense of Schill should be condemned for what it is, arrogance and idiocy combined in a cocktail from knucklehead-ville. I simply do not know what to think anymore about what passes for media comment that is fit for public consumption in a city that is one of the world's respected educational centers.

 

While I consider Schills comments bad and in poor form, even juvenile, I consider the D&C defense of Schill to be either ignorant in the extreme or so lacking in social conscience and respect for their audience that I can only describe it as reprehensible. These two palooka's should have been bounced off the airwaves long ago making way for somebody that actually has something to say that is worth listening to.

 

Granted this is Sports Media, not a mecca of reporting or journalistic excellence to begin with. Nobody on sports radio is likely to ever be competing for a Pulitzer. However when media personalities treat their audience with that much disrespect, that is where I draw a line. If they can't do better than this, do something else for God's sake.

[Dojji]

Obviously' date=' Bobby V needs to take heed of what Schill says. Schill is a winner. Bobby V has never won anything.[/quote']

 

I'm inclined to agree with that.

 

I dunno if Schill knows more about managing than Bobby V, Bobby is very experienced, but Schill led 3 teams to the top, so what Schill does know is more likely to be right.

[SoxSport]

Aside from being a great baseball player, my impressions of Schilling personally is he is like many baseball newbie millionaires--he loves to make a lot of money and hates to pay a lot of taxes on it. He knows how to butter his bread.

[pedroias laser]

Yet the media lambasted the Yankees (specially ESPN) during every MLB steroid-related scandal during the last decade and shits on the Mets and Jets every chance they get.

 

 

HAHA well being a jets fan i can completely see why.

[a700hitter]

I'm inclined to agree with that.

 

I dunno if Schill knows more about managing than Bobby V, Bobby is very experienced, but Schill led 3 teams to the top, so what Schill does know is more likely to be right.

Guys that have been in locker rooms for around 20 years and been personally successful and played on winners usually have something valid to offer on the topic. They know how managers get guys to respond and they also know how managers can lose guys.

[pedroias laser]

Oh' date=' and welcome aboard there Laser Show.:thumbsup:[/quote']

 

Thank you appreciate it Yaz!.

[jung]

Schill may know something about what makes players go and not go. However there is no denying that Schill's opinion runs contrary to the public comments players have made.

 

While there is the possibility the Schill is talking to players that have a different view from those of players that have commented publicly what purpose does Schill's comments have besides feathering his own nest by proclaiming his inside knowledge. Who does this help? We can't do anything about it one way or the other. So it does not help us a lick. To whatever extent this is about V this is about V as a man. V is not going to change based on some nebulous comments from Schill about what is and what is not working. The Sox hired V for who he is so V is going to toe his bosses line not Schill's and not the players. We castigated Tito for giving the players to much rope which they then used to hang him not more than a few months ago!

 

I don't like some of the things that V has done and is doing mainly with regard to the way he comments in the press and to some smaller degree because of how totally focused he is on this year to the exclusion of everything else. However you could hardly blame him for the latter since the Sox only gave him a two year contract. But to say it is not working without benefit of seeing how this team performs on the field in the regular season is a bit much particularly since what we do have from players, like it or not is exactly the opposite. Even with that we will not be judging V to the exclusion of ownership, upper management, baseball operations and the players themselves.

 

So if we have a reasonable expectation for what the team he has been given is capable of doing then we might ultimately be able to judge whether or not this is working whatever that even means at this point in March for God's sake.

 

As for what he says in the press, he will either live or die by how the team performs and to a certain extent will be held accountable for what he says. One small example is the way V insisted on proclaiming his involvement in sending Iggy down. That sounded stupid and self serving. We know V wanted Iggy and to claim that he suddenly saw something he did not like when Iggy returned to the dugout was ridiculous. The FO wanted Iggy back down and that is where he went. But oh no....not V. He could not tolerate the notion that the press might think this was anybody else's idea or decision.

 

In fact I believe when this is all said and done of the three items we have been watching with reference to the FO and V, I suspect the FO will win on all three counts. V has wanted Bard in the bullpen, Iggy and Larvanway up with the FO holding the opposite view. I suspect when this is done we will have Bard in the rotation and Iggy and Larvanway down. Since this is baseball I believe that is three strikes V.....your out.

[a700hitter]

Schill may know something about what makes players go and not go. However there is no denying that Schill's opinion runs contrary to the public comments players have made.

 

While there is the possibility the Schill is talking to players that have a different view from those of players that have commented publicly what purpose does Schill's comments have besides feathering his own nest by proclaiming his inside knowledge. Who does this help? We can't do anything about it one way or the other. So it does not help us a lick. To whatever extent this is about V this is about V as a man. V is not going to change based on some nebulous comments from Schill about what is and what is not working. The Sox hired V for who he is so V is going to toe his bosses line not Schill's and not the players. We castigated Tito for giving the players to much rope which they then used to hang him not more than a few months ago!

 

I don't like some of the things that V has done and is doing mainly with regard to the way he comments in the press and to some smaller degree because of how totally focused he is on this year to the exclusion of everything else. However you could hardly blame him for the latter since the Sox only gave him a two year contract. But to say it is not working without benefit of seeing how this team performs on the field in the regular season is a bit much particularly since what we do have from players, like it or not is exactly the opposite. Even with that we will not be judging V to the exclusion of ownership, upper management, baseball operations and the players themselves.

 

So if we have a reasonable expectation for what the team he has been given is capable of doing then we might ultimately be able to judge whether or not this is working whatever that even means at this point in March for God's sake.

 

As for what he says in the press, he will either live or die by how the team performs and to a certain extent will be held accountable for what he says. One small example is the way V insisted on proclaiming his involvement in sending Iggy down. That sounded stupid and self serving. We know V wanted Iggy and to claim that he suddenly saw something he did not like when Iggy returned to the dugout was ridiculous. The FO wanted Iggy back down and that is where he went. But oh no....not V. He could not tolerate the notion that the press might think this was anybody else's idea or decision.

 

In fact I believe when this is all said and done of the three items we have been watching with reference to the FO and V, I suspect the FO will win on all three counts. V has wanted Bard in the bullpen, Iggy and Larvanway up with the FO holding the opposite view. I suspect when this is done we will have Bard in the rotation and Iggy and Larvanway down. Since this is baseball I believe that is three strikes V.....your out.

If this wasn't Schilling, some one else would be doing and saying the same stuff bout Bobby V. This has nothing to do with Schill. I told you guys that Bobby V is a good baseball guy, but not a likeable guy. He's a lightning rod-- and I think that he is deliberately a lightning rod. He likes the attention.