Phillies sign Papelbon

[mvp 78]

Wake was in Ft. Myers testing the waters right from the beginning' date=' and maybe one or both of them would have suited up had it not been for Bobby V saying that neither had a chance of making the team. A team doesn't usually cut ties with players by offering them minor league contracts. It wasn't as tinfoil as you think.[/quote']

 

Testing the waters? Ok.

 

Spin it however you'd like. They didn't show up. They aren't on the roster.

[a700hitter]

They knew they werent going to accept them. It was their unofficial way of telling them they had moved on.

 

They did not want them back.

An injury to Salty or Shoppach prior to March 1st would have resulted in Tek wearing a Sox uni in spring training. As for Wake, after seeing how poorly the back of the rotation guys performed in spring training, he probably regrets not suiting up. He has a very big ego despite his nice-guy public image.

 

They left the decision up to the players. If one or both of them had shown up, it would have been a fiasco. As of the opening of camp, neither had turned down the offer. Bobby V had to hit them over the head for them to wake up and see the reality.

[User Name]

AFV last year was 92.7, topping out at 96. His velocity in spring is way down.

 

Regarding Aceves.

[a700hitter]

So you want to pay 1.1 million dollars per save?

 

When it counts, Papelbon has failed the last three years. He is five months removed from blowing a save that kicked the Red Sox out of the playoffs. He is one year away from a season where he blew 8 saves, and two years past a season where he lost a deciding game in the playoffs. He is not the next Rivera.

 

I don't know why you guys think he's so phenomenal. He's good, great even. But not THAT good.

I don't usually insult you, but on this you are nut. He is the best closer in team history. Period end of story.

[jung]

I do think the injury, conditioning and medical team record of recent Sox memory has got folks just plain spooked about anything that has anything to do with the DL. Maybe that is why the Bailey concern might be a bit excessive at this point.

 

But look at where Crawford is today and then make an argument that the concern some have expressed about Bailey is completely unjustified.

 

Can't really say that this new crew of meds has seemed much better at least viewed from afar. Although we have been saying from the start that it is hard to expect a different clinical approach from doctors that are within the same medical association.

[BornToRun]

I don't usually insult you' date=' but on this you are nut. He is the best closer in team history. Period end of story.[/quote']

 

Overall, yes. But right now and considering the money we would've had to throw at him, f*** no.

[VA Sox Fan]

Wake was in Ft. Myers testing the waters right from the beginning' date=' and maybe one or both of them would have suited up had it not been for Bobby V saying that neither had a chance of making the team. A team doesn't usually cut ties with players by offering them minor league contracts. It wasn't as tinfoil as you think.[/quote']

 

They both showed up to retire gracefully, and they did.

[a700hitter]

Testing the waters? Ok.

 

Spin it however you'd like. They didn't show up. They aren't on the roster.

That's not the argument. You said a poster was wearing a tinfoil hat for being concerned about one or both of these relics coming to camp. I am just pointing out the sequence of events. The Sox offered them both minor league contracts. Neither player declined the offer until after camp opened. They announced their retirement after receiving very clear indications from Bobby V that neither would make the team. Spin that however you want.

[mvp 78]

I don't usually insult you' date=' but on this you are nut. He is the best closer in team history. Period end of story.[/quote']

 

Let's overpay for a long contract for the team's franchise best DH!

 

Same bad logic.

[Palodios]

I don't usually insult you' date=' but on this you are nut. He is the best closer in team history. Period end of story.[/quote']

 

What is the point of a closer if he can't get the job done when he needs to?

[Palodios]

Let's overpay for a long contract for the team's franchise best DH!

 

Same bad logic.

 

+1

 

 

How about overpaying for the team's best franchise knuckleballer?

[mvp 78]

That's not the argument. You said a poster was wearing a tinfoil hat for being concerned about one or both of these relics coming to camp. I am just pointing out the sequence of events. The Sox offered them both minor league contracts. Neither player declined the offer until after camp opened. They announced their retirement after receiving very clear indications from Bobby V that neither would make the team. Spin that however you want.

 

My argument has always been "don't worry as they aren't showing up." Clearly I knew what I was talking about.

[a700hitter]

They both showed up to retire gracefully' date=' and they did. [/quote']Wake was in for Fort Myers well before he announced his retirement. At his retirement announcement, he did state that he would consider suiting up and coming back in mid-season. Neither retired gracefully. Bobby V stripped the unis off their backs. I don't blame the players for that. Any major leaguer that leaves anything on the field is a fool in my opinion. I respect the players who have the uni torn off their backs. The Red Sox FO signals were just stupid. They should not have had to rely on Bobby V bailing out their asses when camp opened.

[mvp 78]

+1

 

 

How about overpaying for the team's best franchise knuckleballer?

 

He may be one of MLB's best knuckleballers of all time. Pay him triple!

[User Name]

My argument has always been "don't worry as they aren't showing up." Clearly I knew what I was talking about.

 

[a700hitter]

Let's overpay for a long contract for the team's franchise best DH!

 

Same bad logic.

The teams best DH is 36. Papelbon is 30. I would have preferred that Ortiz had been cut loose and Papelbon stayed and been overpaid.

[VA Sox Fan]

My argument has always been "don't worry as they aren't showing up." Clearly I knew what I was talking about.

 

I think most of us knew they weren't showing up to play. Others chose to completely stress out about it like it was some big issue.

[a700hitter]

My argument has always been "don't worry as they aren't showing up." Clearly I knew what I was talking about.

It doesn't make the opposing point of view "tinfoil".

[mvp 78]

It doesn't make the opposing point of view "tinfoil".

 

Fine, would you rather a mention of the Tobin?

[a700hitter]

What is the point of a closer if he can't get the job done when he needs to?

It's too bad as an ardent Red Sox fan that you can't appreciate the career of the best closer in team history. I realize that you have a good deal of Papelbon hate. You can build on that as his is putting up saves for the next 5 years for another premier franchise on the east coast.

[a700hitter]

Fine' date=' would you rather a mention of the Tobin?[/quote']It was enough of a story that the beat writers were asking Bobby V about it enough that he felt the need to speak up on the topic.

[a700hitter]

We have plenty of overpaid guys on the Sox. It's a long list. If people want to argue that papelbon is overpaid, I will not even counter the argument, but don't act like we don't have a boatload of guys who aren't overpaid, and some of them are very under-performing. I would have preferred that the Sox have decided to overpay Papelbon, who I think has plenty left in his tank instead of making the decision to overpay any of the following:

 

Lackey

Ortiz

Crawford

[iortiz]

We have plenty of overpaid guys on the Sox. It's a long list. If people want to argue that papelbon is overpaid, I will not even counter the argument, but don't act like we don't have a boatload of guys who aren't overpaid, and some of them are very under-performing. I would have preferred that the Sox have decided to overpay Papelbon, who I think has plenty left in his tank instead of making the decision to overpay any of the following:

 

Lackey

Ortiz

Crawford

 

Amen.

 

We have plenty discussed this issue. Some friends here are not with us and it is fine, but sometimes you do not appreciate/value your own assets as you do when you are looking somewhere else.

 

Sure, he costs a lot of money, but as you said, we have plenty overpaid for trash players over and over again mostly in recent years.

[jung]

Well I had thought we had beaten Paps to death. I do think the most relevant aspect of Paps as it relates to the Sox was that they were not going to give a closer that kind of money over that kind of time. It just was not going to happen. To be honest I think that if somebody threw Mariano at their feet, they would think long and hard about giving him something like a Paps contract and after doing so would likely reject the idea.

 

Lackey's money I think you have to consider sunk money. I don't think they would have been thinking about what it would take to sign Paps at the point when they signed Lackey.

 

Crawford was and is such a joke that I cannot tell you what the hell they were thinking there. So, I can not draw any linkage or associations between Crawford and Paps cause I can't draw any linkage or associations between Crawford and anything!

 

Ortiz might be justifiable criticism although again druthers aside, I just don't think the Sox were going to give a closer the kind of contract the Phillies made available to Paps and I think that was a unilateral decision. So while not moving on Ortiz would have triggered a whole host of changes to this team, I don't think keeping Paps would have been one of them.

[seabeachfred]

I wasn't referring to SCM, i was referring to a700 and his knack for never being content with anything.

 

Also, i don't know what you're talking about here. Bailey had some thumb discomfort, they tried to work through it, discomfort didn't subside, and he gets a DL stint. Is it necessary to create a press conference every time a player gets a boo-boo?

 

No need to overthink it. Like the Wakefield/Varitek situation.

 

Also, aren't you one of the many that says Bard doesn't have the "mental makeup" to be a closer?

 

Which is it?

 

Ever heard of the saying that "necessity is the mother of invention"? Now that Bailey is on the shelf for a DL stint, our choices are limited and Bard seems the best bet for the closer's role even though, yes, I do have some misgivings about his "mental makeup" as you put it. Well, he could prove me wrong and go out there and just shove the bats up the opponents' asses. Besides, I still insist it is a lot to ask Aceves to close when he has never done that before. OK, maybe the necessity thing could now apply to Alfredo. Tell me this, when his thumb acted up, why not give him an MRI and take the cautious approach? We didn't to that with Buccholz last June and we all saw what happened.

 

And why the hell do y ou drag the Wakefield-Varitek saga into this? I'm still counting my blessings that they saw the handwriting on the wall and decided to cast off. Thank God I was wrong on that but I have to give kuddos to BV on that because if he hadn't given out those undeniable hints both of those over the hill relics would have been in uniform and in ST.:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

[User Name]

Ever heard of the saying that "necessity is the mother of invention"? Now that Bailey is on the shelf for a DL stint' date=' our choices are limited and Bard seems the best bet for the closer's role even though, yes, I do have some misgivings about his "mental makeup" as you put it. Well, he could prove me wrong and go out there and just shove the bats up the opponents' asses. Besides, I still insist it is a lot to ask Aceves to close when he has never done that before. OK, maybe the necessity thing could now apply to Alfredo. Tell me this, when his thumb acted up, why not give him an MRI and take the cautious approach? We didn't to that with Buccholz last June and we all saw what happened.[/quote']

 

How do you know they're not taking the cautious approach? Maybe it's not a big deal but they shut him down regardless. We don't have enough info yet.

 

As for the closer's role, there are options. Bard should not be one of them.

 

And why the hell do y ou drag the Wakefield-Varitek saga into this? I'm still counting my blessings that they saw the handwriting on the wall and decided to cast off. Thank God I was wrong on that but I have to give kuddos to BV on that because if he hadn't given out those undeniable hints both of those over the hill relics would have been in uniform and in ST.:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

 

It's good ammo.

[User Name]

Amen.

 

We have plenty discussed this issue. Some friends here are not with us and it is fine, but sometimes you do not appreciate/value your own assets as you do when you are looking somewhere else.

 

Sure, he costs a lot of money, but as you said, we have plenty overpaid for trash players over and over again mostly in recent years.

 

So overpaying for more players is the answer?

 

You either keep overpaying, or you stop. They are trying to stop, yet people still complain.

[seabeachfred]

Why do you need a direct line whenever someone is dinged up? This "secrecy" crap reminds me of the tinfoil Wake and Tek posts from the winter. Not everything is a conspiracy.

 

Direct line? The guy has been dinged up for over 10 days. Think maybe some precautions like an MRI might not have been appropriate since we have been susceptible to all sorts of physical mishaps the past few seasons? Why not act on the side of caution and see the extent of the injury instead of "working around it". Like elbows, knees and ankles, you do not mess around with thumbs. They can be serious injuries and they don't heal that quickly. As for the Wake and Tek posts, jog your memory and understand that both were invited to ST by Cherington and then offered minor league contracts. Those minor league contracts often mean a place on the 25 man roster when ST is over. They had already resigned the over the hill Varitek twice before. Only Valentine's plain warning that there was no room for either one forced them to retire. If not, they would have been in uniform and causing a circus this Spring. Valentine forced them out, nothing less and nothing more.

[redsoxfan3]

It is hard to tell if Paps even wanted to return to Boston to pitch. We all knew that Paps wanted an astronomical contract. The FO decided to pretty much let Paps walk. It was out of our control as fans and I think we just have to deal with him moving on. Yes, it looks like we are going to be weak in the pen, especially if Bailey is hurt for a while. But what good is it going to do by us just sitting here and complaining about the decision Paps and the FO made?

 

It might be hard to stay optimistic about this right now, but we do have Melancon that has experience closing and we do have Aceves who is very effective in the pen. I know some of you will say that Melancon hasn't looked good this spring or that Aceves hasn't closed before. I don't expect Bailey to be out all that long. Also, didn't Padilla close for the Dodgers some last year? I know our pen looks weak, but we do have options that have the ability to get the job done. I am comfortable with Aceves closing and Melancon setting him up for the time it takes Bailey to return.

 

The first game of the season hasn't even started yet, so there is no reason to start freaking out yet. Also, there is no official report as to how long Bailey will be out. I was big on us signing Madson this offseason and I am glad that we didn't because of his season ending injury. We all knew Bailey has some history of injuries. I trust Bobby V with making good decisions for our bullpen. I think we will be fine when it is all said and done and this gives the opportunity for us to give some other guys the chance to succeed in the pen. We might be surprised with the results. I guess the point of my whole rant is just be patient, something will work out.

[a700hitter]

It's interesting that UN keeps directing comments toward me even though I don't see his posts. I guess it is probably lost on him that it is impossible to ignore A700Hitter.:harhar: