Phillies sign Papelbon

[a700hitter]

I was hoping we would sign Paps, but it does open up 12 million to sign 2 top setup men for Bard.

50-50 chance we wind up with a better bullpen. We're probably going to have more save situations.

Like who?

[Laser Show]

Like who?

 

K Rod and Heath Bell!

[a700hitter]

Well' date=' now we have the money to possibly pry Buehrle out of Chicago[/quote']I would do it. Buehrle is as consistent as they come. He'd anchor the back end of the rotation and we wouldn't have to rely so much on middle inning relief.

[jung]

They could have given big money to Papelbon and fixed the other issues.

 

How, without busting the Luxury Tax threshold which they are not going to do.

[a700hitter]

K Rod and Heath Bell!

KRod is vested for 2012 to make $13 million.

[a700hitter]

How' date=' without busting the Luxury Tax threshold which they are not going to do.[/quote']Let Ortiz walk.

[Laser Show]

KRod is vested for 2012 to make $13 million.

 

Option becomes guaranteed with 1. 55 games finished in 2011 and 2. 100 games finished in 2010-2011 and 3. Doctors declare player is healthy after 2011

 

$17.5M vesting option, $3.5M buyout

[Palodios]

And I pointed out why each pitcher on that list wasn't comparable to papelbon's situation. About half of them signed their contracts at or after age 34 (Hoffman age 39). Papelbon's contract will be over at age 34. Bogus comparison :thumbdown

 

And what if Papelbon blows out his shoulder? You know, the one that has been nagging him since 2004, that we hear reports of issues with pretty much every year? Relievers have a lot of health issues because of the wear and tear of throwing their absolute hardest every single pitch. Paying 13 million a year to a guy that throws 3 innings a week when the entire pitching staff is a complete mess would just be irresponsible. And we don't even know if he wanted to come back.

[a700hitter]

He didn't finish 55 games' date=' I think there's a $3.5M buyout[/quote']I think the Brewers agreed to vest him as part of the trade.

[WhiskeyBreath]

K Rod and Heath Bell!

 

K Rod? No freakin' thanks. He's a shell of his former self and is losing velocity off his fastball every single year.

[Laser Show]

I think the Brewers agreed to vest him as part of the trade.

 

Everything I'm finding is saying he is a FA

[Laser Show]

10/30 - A Brewers spokesperson confirmed that the club has declined the $17.5MM option on Francisco Rodriguez, tweets MLB.com's Adam McCalvy. He will receive a buyout of $3.5MM. The Mets are responsible for the buyout.

[a700hitter]

And what if Papelbon blows out his shoulder? You know' date=' the one that has been nagging him since 2004, that we hear reports of issues with pretty much every year? Relievers have a lot of health issues because of the wear and tear of throwing their absolute hardest every single pitch. Paying 13 million a year to a guy that throws 3 innings a week when the entire pitching staff is a complete mess would just be irresponsible. And we don't even know if he wanted to come back.[/quote']Bogus. Has he missed any time since 2006 with the shoulder issue? Of course any pitcher can get injured, but your comparison is bogus, because you are comparing him to guys who were successful to age 34 and beyond but crapped out in their 35+ years and are concluding that Papelbon will crap out by age 34. Nathan didn't, nor did Wagner or Hoffman. It's a totally bogus comparison. If you can't see that, well I can't teach you reason.

[a700hitter]

10/30 - A Brewers spokesperson confirmed that the club has declined the $17.5MM option on Francisco Rodriguez' date=' tweets MLB.com's Adam McCalvy. He will receive a buyout of $3.5MM. The Mets are responsible for the buyout.[/quote']How much do you think it will cost to get KRod and Heath Bell? We paid $6 million/yr for jenks. I don't think KRod comes to the Sox if he doesn't close, and look at his whip. You don't want to see him closing games for the Sox unless you are looking forward to an ulcer.

[Gringo]

You'll NEVER walk alone

[a700hitter]

Thank god that Pepcid Complete is back in production. It was out of production for several months.

[Palodios]

Bogus. Has he missed any time since 2006 with the shoulder issue? Of course any pitcher can get injured' date=' but your comparison is bogus, because you are comparing him to guys who were successful to age 34 and beyond but crapped out in their 35+ years and are concluding that Papelbon will crap out by age 34. Nathan didn't, nor did Wagner or Hoffman. It's a totally bogus comparison. If you can't see that, well I can't teach you reason.[/quote']

 

The problem with reliever contracts is that they're so much more expensive than the player is actually worth that in order for it to be a "good contract" they need to be healthy and effective throughout it-- and the problem is, being a closer puts so much strain on the arm that it just doesn't happen that way. When a reliever contract is that high, there is simply no way to outperform it, simply perform to that level, because they don't pitch enough innings to outperform it. It has nothing to do with ages, or track records. Find me a good reliever contract, and I'll show you five bad ones.

[a700hitter]

The problem with reliever contracts is that they're so much more expensive than the player is actually worth that in order for it to be a "good contract" they need to be healthy and effective throughout it-- and the problem is' date=' being a closer puts so much strain on the arm that it just doesn't happen that way. It has nothing to do with ages, or track records. Find me a good reliever contract, and I'll show you five bad ones.[/quote']Your comparison is bogus. Find me some contracts from consistent AllStar closers signed at age 30.

[jung]

Let Ortiz walk.

 

But that is still not enough right based on the committed dollars. I think they have $24M to spend to get the cap limit. Is that not correct?

 

Actually maybe Paps money is in the Arb money. Is that where Paps money is accounted for currently?

[Gringo]

I have a feeling Madson will be signed by us i just have that gut feeling.

 

He's a Boras player, and was looking for a 4 year deal from Philly.

 

He ain't coming here

[Laser Show]

How much do you think it will cost to get KRod and Heath Bell? We paid $6 million/yr for jenks. I don't think KRod comes to the Sox if he doesn't close' date=' and look at his whip. You don't want to see him closing games for the Sox unless you are looking forward to an ulcer.[/quote']

 

I think he'll get around a 3/18 deal. Heath Bell is probably going to be out of our price range, around $10M per.

 

I'd rather have K Rod close. His WHIP isn't much different than Paps, and he strikes out more and gives up less hits. He does walk a little more though.

[a700hitter]

I think he'll get around a 3/18 deal. Heath Bell is probably going to be out of our price range, around $10M per.

 

I'd rather have K Rod close. His WHIP isn't much different than Paps, and he strikes out more and gives up less hits. He does walk a little more though.

KRod's K's are down a lot since 2007-- almost 2 per 9 innings. His WHIP since 2007 has been horrendous too.

[jacksonianmarch]

This is a humongous loss. Wow, this is awesome! Having an elite closer is one of the major reasons why I have seen my team win 5 world series titles. Locking down that last inning is crucial to being successful, just ask the Blue Jays, who blew over 20 saves last yr. Papelbon was home grown, had great stuff, handled the media, and handled the pressure. Yes, there are other great closers out there, but none of them have pitched in Fenway with the sox jersey on. If you stay internal, you pull your best setup man into a role he has not proven he can handle and if you go external, you're gonna have to pay an arm and a leg for someone who doesnt have the consistency that Paps had. If they now sign Madson for 4 yrs $44 mil, is it really going to be a better deal than signing Papelbon for one extra yr and $16 or so mil more?

[Palodios]

Your comparison is bogus. Find me some contracts from consistent AllStar closers signed at age 30.

 

Broxton, Gagne, Jenks, K-rod all had atleast two all-star selections, and were under the age of 31. Even if you want to go with K-rod as a comparison, would you really consider 6 blown saves a year worth 13 million a year? Plus, add another alcohol problem to the mix.

[jacksonianmarch]

Pal, you're rationalizing pretty hard here. Papelbon is a humongous loss. Not sure if he can be replaced

[a700hitter]

Broxton' date=' Gagne, Jenks, K-rod all had atleast two all-star selections, and were under the age of 31. Even if you want to go with K-rod as a comparison, would you really consider 6 blown saves a year worth 13 million a year?[/quote']You are recycling the same s***. I already told you why these guys weren't comparable. All that you have done different here is that you have add to this mix steroid boy Gagne who had a history of arm surgery. He had a TJ surgery in at age 21. Again, you haven't found one case that is comparable to Papelbon , but you are crowing that your evidence is overwhelming. Your evidence is bogus. Go to Law School and learn how to present a case. You have produced garbage, pure and simple.

[a700hitter]

This is a humongous loss. Wow' date=' this is awesome! Having an elite closer is one of the major reasons why I have seen my team win 5 world series titles. Locking down that last inning is crucial to being successful, just ask the Blue Jays, who blew over 20 saves last yr.[/i'] Papelbon was home grown, had great stuff, handled the media, and handled the pressure. Yes, there are other great closers out there, but none of them have pitched in Fenway with the sox jersey on. If you stay internal, you pull your best setup man into a role he has not proven he can handle and if you go external, you're gonna have to pay an arm and a leg for someone who doesnt have the consistency that Paps had. If they now sign Madson for 4 yrs $44 mil, is it really going to be a better deal than signing Papelbon for one extra yr and $16 or so mil more?

Some of us here have understood that all along. These people are idiots if they think they can go replace him. It's not going to happen.

[Bellhorn04]

Bard had a 1.44 ERA with Varitek last year and a 4.54 ERA with Salty, so if we get rid of Varitek things will be even more exciting for Bard.

[jung]

Bard had a 1.44 ERA with Varitek last year and a 4.54 ERA with Salty, so if we get rid of Varitek things will be even more exciting for Bard.

 

But Bard mechanics fell apart later in the season in 2011 when Salty was catching the bulk of the games. Bard needed a better pitching coach...somebody that could actually help him work through his issues. I can't think of anybody that Young helped because everybody got worse through the year.

[Palodios]

You are recycling the same s***. I already told you why these guys weren't comparable. All that you have done different here is that you have add to this mix steroid boy Gagne who had a history of arm surgery. He had a TJ surgery in at age 21. Again' date=' you haven't found one case that is comparable to Papelbon , but you are crowing that your evidence is overwhelming. Your evidence is bogus. Go to Law School and learn how to present a case. You have produced garbage, pure and simple.[/quote']

 

You keep throwing out my examples, and provide none of your own. Find me a comparable contract then. Papelbon is not Rivera, and he never will be. Stop pretending he is.