What Should the Red Sox get for Theo?

[a700hitter]

What do you think? If you don't see your choice, write in options are encouraged. We have to get this deal done. Maybe we can help these two clueless organizations to move ahead and get this done.

 

Edit: To clarify- The Theo's baggage option means that the Cubs take Theo's baggage.

[SoxSport]

I think I'll defer that question to my assistant, Larry Lucchino.

 

With instructions to hold Epstein to his last contract year if he doesn't get what he's asking for.

 

I would also tell him to put a fast deadline on these negotiations, which have dragged on far too long

while the Boston media has been drowning the Red Sox in beer--probably Budweiser.

[example1]

I put prospects. It seems unrealistic that a player like Garza could be included. Packaging him with Lackey would be my 3rd choice, but I hate the idea of Lackey being paid the majority of his salary to pitch for another team. I think he will bounce back. Obviously the biggest problem is the clubhous piece, but the situation isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. The sky is not falling and this team would be able to win with some key additions and a new manager even if they can't move Lackey.

[SoxSport]

Somebody send these poll results to Larry Lucchino.

 

In the current PR atmosphere in Boston, there is no doubt Lucchino needs to come away with

something of value for Epstein--or keep him.

[Palodios]

I should expect it is going to be a quality prospect. From the reports I've read, Mcnutt seems ideal-- a back end starter with a low ceiling, but a good chance of making it at the major league level. It gives the Red Sox starting pitching depth, and the Cubs probably understand that losing a back-end starter really isn't the end of the world.

 

 

The sky is not falling

 

It sounds like you've developed a catch phrase

[a700hitter]

A few random thoughts from Abraham's article today:

 

• You have to hand it to Theo Epstein. He has spent approximately $450 million over the last three seasons without a playoff win to show for it and got the Cubs to give him a five-year deal with $18.5 million. That's impressive.

 

• Red Sox at Cubs next June 15-17 is going to be quite a scene.

 

• So the Padres will just allow Jed Hoyer and Jason McLeod to go to the Cubs?

[Cask N Flagon 76]

Is there any validity of Lackey possibly being shipped to SD?. I thought i heard that somewhere in the

press.

[Cairns_Sox]

It will be a few prospects. Their is no way Theo is staying in Boston. He is getting a promotion so we can't really hold a case of keeping him. No way John Henry keeps Theo now. Prospects.. Three tops.

[doctorron]

I voted to get rid of Lackey. However, I'm from Chicago and the Chicago dog is the best ever. Better than Coney Islands Nathan.

[jung]

Get Theo a new computer! Oh wait, no sense in that now. Can't help us.

[3rdManOut]

Get Theo a new computer! Oh wait' date=' no sense in that now. Can't help us.[/quote']

 

 

Well whatever we get it better be pretty big. After all he was our GM for Christs sakes!

[iortiz]

I voted Theo's baggage, but missed Lackey in that baggage

 

BTW it is not precisely due Theo's value

[iortiz]

He has spent approximately $450 million over the last three seasons without a playoff win to show for it

 

Impressive.

[Flynnatic10]

Starlin Castro.

[Charlotte Sox fan]

no chance it's Castro

 

I would like to see Brett Jackson, he was drafted 1st rd (31) in 2009

 

he's a 23 year old CF, he also plays left and right.

 

ignoring his PCL numbers

 

he has 565 plate appearences in AA 266/370/454 (823)

 

with 16 homers and 30 sb's

 

throw in 75 BB's to go with his 137 K's

 

he was the 38 ranked prospect to start 2011

 

he's 6-2 210 so there's a good chance he's going to get stronger.

 

 

 

can't post the link to his stats because I don't have enough posts yet LOL

[italstallianion]

There should be an option that says "Whatever the f*** we can get and now!"

[iortiz]

There should be an option that says "Whatever the f*** we can get and now!"

 

I'd vote for that option as well

[3rdManOut]

Ok ok I will admit it! Im the one who voted for Garza (sigh). Sorry.

[CanadianSox]

Ok ok I will admit it! Im the one who voted for Garza (sigh). Sorry.

 

I did as well. Pipedream, yes but I like dreaming lol.

[SoxSport]

Apparently Kenney, the Cubs President, has been the guy stonewalling players to Boston for Epstein--for personal reasons. "personal" = "turf territory"? That would figure, since Epstein will also carry the title "President."

 

Maybe that's why the deal was cut, so Epstein could do his own negotiating with Cherington, as Cubs GM.

I would expect one or two of their top prospects--one high A like McNutt, one low A. Maybe both pitchers.

[alphilip77]

Since when have Crawford and Salty become "baggage?" Salty was a pretty good offensive catcher who cost next to nothing and everyone assumes that the Crawford we saw this year is going to be the one we see for the duration of the contract. Sheesh...

[a700hitter]

Since when have Crawford and Salty become "baggage?" Salty was a pretty good offensive catcher who cost next to nothing and everyone assumes that the Crawford we saw this year is going to be the one we see for the duration of the contract. Sheesh...

Salty hit .235 with a .288 OBP and he k's one-third of his plate appearances. He is at the top of the league in swings and misses. He's a terrible catcher. He can't catch the ball, block the plate or throw. That's baggage.

[DwightFright]

It has been formally announced that Theo is officially gone to Chicago with no deal yet on compensation. Now Epstein and Cherington will negotiate with each other - as if that wasn't already occurring? Let's see if Selig has to step in to solve the dysfunctional puzzle.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/theo-epstein-resigns-from-boston-red-sox-to-join-chicago-cubs-102111

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2011/10/22/epstein_leaves_for_cubs/

[jung]

Not to cut Theo slack on Salty because he really does not deserve any. In truth as has been stated many times and is as clear as day, Salty does not receive the ball well, he can't throw it, actually does not know how to block the plate and does not appear coordinated enough to block it and control the throw from outfield or cutoff man if he knew how and he can't hit it. As far as I can tell, the only thing Salty is capable of doing is crouching without falling over. The sad part about that is that literally qualifies him as a potential major league catcher these days.

 

The overall quality exhibited by catchers at all levels of baseball has gone in the tank and I no longer can even determine what they must use for a standard. For defense, scouts must have to go view tapes of Yadi every once in awhile just to remind themselves how the hell great defense behind the plate looks.

 

Ya' gotta' kid that you think has some athletic talent and ya' wanna' optimize his chances of turning that into gold....don't have him run miles or hold a tennis racket from age three. Don't put a basketball in his hands and hope he grows to be 6'11" if you are 5'8" and don't expose him to the excessive chance of injury in either form of football. Simply do not allow him to take any of his meals at the kitchen table. Have him crouch at every mealtime. Based on what I see if he can crouch he has a shot at the major leagues. The more things you can teach him to do from that crouch the more you will increase the chance that he will both make it and stay. If you can teach him to catch and throw you have a gold glove catcher sitting there in your own living room and if he can hit you have an all star major league baseball player with all the trimmings.

[alphilip77]

Salty hit .235 with a .288 OBP and he k's one-third of his plate appearances. He is at the top of the league in swings and misses. He's a terrible catcher. He can't catch the ball' date=' block the plate or throw. That's baggage.[/quote']

 

And who would you propose take his place? Lavarnway is no better behind the dish right now and Varitek is going on 40. In my eyes, Salty has potential. He is a switch hitting catcher with power. You should give him at least another year before you run him out of town.

 

Also, players who contributed little to nothing over the course of season are "baggage."

 

That would include:

 

Bobby Jenks

Dice-K

JD Drew

Darnell McDonald

John Lackey

Andrew Miller

Tim Wakefield

Conor Jackson

[italstallianion]

For the record, some of those names are dirt cheap and had very little expectations, therefore, barring any locker room cancers, I wouldn't consider McDonald, Miller, or Jackson to be baggage. Part of it is the other players fault for being bad enough or injured enough whereby those other players had to receive playing time.

[jung]

In my case it is not that I don't see your point alphilip. The problem is really Theo or Sox in general, not Salty. Salty is who he is. However looking at who he is, the only way to justify where he is is by focusing on his batting skills. As limited as they are, they are without question his best qualities. However the mistake is in thinking his defensive skills are even approaching adequate or that they will improve appreciably and you just cannot view catchers through the prism of their bats.

 

He throws the way he throws because he does not have the arm strength to throw any better. Nothing is going to improve that and his throwing is atrocious, not marginal, not passible, but atrocious.

 

As for his receiving, he stabs at the ball with his glove like a 7 year old little leaguer. It is embarrassing. That might improve a little but if at his age he still has not learned to position himself so that the ball comes to him and he can block it if he can't catch it that is pretty tough to rationalize. So he blocks some balls but stop looking at the balls that he blocks and look at how he blocks them and you will see my point.

 

As for blocking the plate I have literally watched him hunting for the ball AND hunting for the plate like a guy that can't walk and chew bubble gum at the same time.

 

Salty can crouch without falling over and that is about it for his catching skills.

 

The mistake is in looking at his batting skills and presuming that his catching will someday not be a glaring weakness. Catching is one of the few positions on the field where batting should be a bonus. You simply cannot sacrifice defensive skills for batting at catching. In the first place the job of catching is so physically demanding that you can forget about the guy legging out anything or being anything but a big liability on the base paths. In the second place a catcher as deficient defensively as Salty will cost you more runs than he will ever get you with his bat.

 

So that is the mistake. Any organization that puts stock in Salty as a catcher does it valuing his bat and hoping against all odds that his catching will improve enough to go from defensively inadequate and atrocious to acceptable and that is a giant mistake. If you are going to try to bring a catcher along find one that HAS some defensive talents that you can build upon and if he ever hits his weight in batting average ....fine...be happy. The Sox did it the other way around or backwards if you will. What a surprise. I and others have posted almost this same post many times here but I don't expect people to look back at achieves especially at a site like ours. But that is the deal.

 

Frankly there are parts of the world where they build baseball players from the bottom up because baseball is viewed as the only way out. If I were looking for a catcher, that is where i would look because it is very hard to find one just at your fingertips someplace.

 

If your point is that the Sox had nowhere to go but but Salty, that is not entirely accurate in the first place and in the second place, if they left themselves with no options at catching who the hell's fault is that....is it your's.....is it mine???? I don't think so.

[randywatson]

I think lackey should be part of the deal

 

Who cares about getting someone in return when one of Theo's best ever pieces of business is left here to eat KFC

[redsoxrules]

Salty hit .235 with a .288 OBP and he k's one-third of his plate appearances. He is at the top of the league in swings and misses. He's a terrible catcher. He can't catch the ball' date=' block the plate or throw. [b']That's baggage[/b].

 

No ,

 

Baggage is someone like Lackey , cost a fortune that you cant get rid off.

 

Salty can easily be dealt as he barely cost anything.

[Brennan]

Salty hit .235 with a .288 OBP and he k's one-third of his plate appearances. He is at the top of the league in swings and misses. He's a terrible catcher. He can't catch the ball' date=' block the plate or throw. That's baggage.[/quote']

 

 

 

Pretty much exactly my viewpoint on it. He just looked kind of good next to Varitek.