Lester talks

[Cairns_Sox]

http://bostonglobe.com/sports/2011/10/17/jon-lester-admits-rally-beers-clubhouse/dDf7SHGnt2Lfhitw5jGFqI/story.html

 

Don't believe alot of what he said. Pissed me off with the shelf life comment. And also he knew he was taking advantage of Tito, yet tried to make out he respected him.

 

I think this Is Ownerships way of trying to smooth over Jon Lester's name in all of this. I'm betting Beckett and Lackey are being shopped. Just my opinion.

[Gringo]

can you copy and paste it?

[Palodios]

WEEI has something similar

 

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2011/10/17/jon-lester-clubhouse-drinking-was-wrong-but-issue-has-been-exaggerated/

 

Lester seems to be saying this whole thing was overblown. Based on the quotes, it seems like he was angry at the idea that he was following Beckett-- he claimed he was "his own ass man". Popeyes chicken was only a once a month thing, and he claimed no one was actually playing video games.

[a700hitter]

WEEI has something similar

 

http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2011/10/17/jon-lester-clubhouse-drinking-was-wrong-but-issue-has-been-exaggerated/

 

Lester seems to be saying this whole thing was overblown. Based on the quotes, it seems like he was angry at the idea that he was following Beckett-- he claimed he was "his own ass man". Popeyes chicken was only a once a month thing, and he claimed no one was actually playing video games.

L:ester is an "ass man." TMI. Let's stick to baseball.

[sleepyhollow]

Don't ya just get that all-over warm feeling when he says it was only in the 9th inning? :lol:

[jung]

So John, you guys were doing this stuff all season. So you don't think this stuff has an additive effect that eventually rips you down?

 

He claimed in the piece that he was disappointed in his inability to be the stopper for this team. As I posted in the other thread, so are we, and in fact that is the one thing that changed between 2010 and 2011 for Lester. It was expected of him in 2011. I think it very likely that he needs the cover provided by a number 1 pitcher so that he can pitch well. He may someday be a number 1 but it is not today and I doubt it is anytime in 2012.

 

I think Jon is another guy that would do well to just say nothing. If you can't say this crap is complete fabrication then don't say anything because saying it was exaggerated in the face of the worst collapse in baseball history rings pretty hollow. Throwing Tito under the bus just makes him sound like JH an LL's boy never mind if he is Beckett's boy.

 

Lester in my view is already being cut a fair amount of slack in all this. All he can do is hurt himself. Zip it Jon.

[BoSoxFanNY]

I am glad that he said something.

I want to hear from Beckett and Lackey (don't expect to.)

Their silence says more.

I sincerely HOPE that the embarrassing stories challenge this team

and players to work harder and play better next year.

[randywatson]

i just read the piece there

 

i find it astonishing that a well paid athlete can admit to eating Popeyes fried chicken (im irish, so thats a new one to me, we dont have that place over here) and drinking beer during a game,

 

and then to nonchalantly say that he didnt believe it was the cause of the september downfall.

 

seriously, in what other sports would you get away with that, and not just get away with it, but have the audacity to think it would not effect your performance?????

 

i race bicycles on the weekends, and im sorry to say i never ever win, yet by the sounds of it, i prepare myself better than our starting pitchers!!!!

 

ok, some people can argue that its not in the culture of the game to be the Uberathlete. But you just have to look at what Tiger Woods did to golf, he's an exceptional talent, but above all, compared to the golfers of yesteryear, he is an athlete.

 

is it too much to as for our players to act like proper athletes, and dare i say, even look like them?

[3rdManOut]

Perhaps if Lester had added something new that wasnt known before the public knew about it, then maybe it might have made a small difference. Doesnt really matter anymore. Why didnt he say something sooner anyway.

Even if Beckett and Lackey say anything it wont change my personal view of them over this. However they need to say something, anything but I bet we won't even get a sorry out of them.

Red Sox Nation demands an explination on this, period!

[example1]

This is the type of report I'm glad to see. I hope that some of these guys got a serious wake-up call with the September collapse. They can complain as much as they want about the media blowing things out of proportion, but so far none of them have said the fans are off base being pissed off and looking for some reason, any reason, why this happened. Fans have every right to do that. So does ownership.

 

Hopefully this makes Lester more aware of how his actions on the field, on the bench and in the clubhouse will eventually come back to him--good, bad or indifferent. Lots of incentive for them to be good.

 

I don't care if Beckett comes out and says something, as long as he gets his s*** done next year.

[FredLynn]

I am glad that he said something.

I want to hear from Beckett and Lackey (don't expect to.)

Their silence says more.

I sincerely HOPE that the embarrassing stories challenge this team

and players to work harder and play better next year.

 

I agree with you. I am glad that those reponsible are finally talking, at least some of them. And I have no reason to doubt that what Lester said is the truth: that its a single ninth inning beer, that the chicken was once a month, and that Tito had no rules and that they pushed him.

I will say this: I am not sure its wise to let Beckett and Lackey talk. Beckett is too damn stubborn and I fear that he will try to justify what happened even more than Lester did and inflame an already bad situation.

And I don't really care what Lackey has to say. I just want him gone.

[SoxSport]

This clubhouse business is way overblown by the media. A coupla guys having a beer or two and some fast food during a game they're not scheduled to pitch. I don't see the big deal. It's probably common.

 

You can imagine what those post game "spreads" are like--especially the freebies for the media. A lot more than beer.

 

The Globe is trying to turn this thing into a clubhouse scandal--which it isn't.

 

The scandal is the Red Sox collapse in September. And the failure of the management to avoid it.

 

That points to the two guys leaving--Tito and Theo. And the 'see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil' coaching staff.

Upper management got it right unloading both, but there is more housecleaning to do.

[FredLynn]

This clubhouse business is way overblown by the media. A coupla guys having a beer or two and some fast food during a game they're not scheduled to pitch. I don't see the big deal. It's probably common.

 

You can imagine what those post game "spreads" are like--especially the freebies for the media. A lot more than beer.

 

The Globe is trying to turn this thing into a clubhouse scandal--which it isn't.

 

The scandal is the Red Sox collapse in September. And the failure of the management to avoid it.

 

That points to the two guys leaving--Tito and Theo. And 'the see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil' coaching staff.

Upper management got it right, but there is more housecleaning to do.

 

I wish I could drink at work.

Those guys belong ON THE BENCH supporting their teamates until the last out is made. Then they can order a kegger if they want to.

[example1]

I wish I could drink at work.

Those guys belong ON THE BENCH supporting their teamates until the last out is made. Then they can order a kegger if they want to.

 

Yep. Nobody I know is allowed to drink at work. Nobody.

 

Nobody I know makes 10m+ a year. Nobody.

 

I realize that their job is hard and stressful. They aren't merely playing a boys game for money. However, on nights off, when they are not pitching, they are literally watching a boys game for money. Sit on the f***ing bench. Sorry if you get bored, I get bored at work too. I just have to deal with it. Tough s***.

 

 

While reports may have been overblown, the fact that even Lester says it was something they probably shouldn't have been doing is reflective of the larger problem. Not everything the team was doing went toward the greater good.

[SoxSport]

I wish I could drink at work.

Those guys belong ON THE BENCH supporting their teamates until the last out is made. Then they can order a kegger if they want to.

 

Hey, it's major f**king league baseball. These guys are making millions. Rich and famous.

TV stars.

 

And they didn't respect their manager, who looks like a fool in all this.

[FenwayDirtDog]

So, I do not condone drinking and eating chicken on the bench during games at all. A team is a team, as Lester was quoted "We fall together and rise above it together", I think you're missing the "together" aspect there, Jon. There is no reason for anybody to be in the clubhouse sitting down watching the game, with a few exceptions obviously (injuries, checking videos...). From the first pitch until the last out, 25 guys should be in that dugout.

 

With that being said, I do think the "beer and chicken" thing is being blown out of proportion a bit, in my opinion. The part where he mentioned none of this stuff would have been an issue if they had made the playoffs, I believe that. I don't believe that had much to do with the September collapse. Like he said, they had been doing that all season long, right from Spring Training. And for a majority of the year, the Sox were the best team in baseball. They F'd up as a team, offence and defence. Players (Pedey and Pap included) go out and drink all throughout the season. If the next day is an off-day, you can constantly find them in bars having a little more than a beer or two. Babe Ruth was DRUNK for several of his games, and we know how good he was haha.

 

While I do find it unacceptable to be doing that DURING a game, I don't think it's a huge issue that needs an entire team overhaul. I just think you guys need to stop drinking during games, dummies. Wait til after.

[Dojji]

I would like to say all this isn't affecting my ability to rally behind my team in this time of crisis, to stay loyal when things are looking like they're heading down hill and remain a true fan.

 

Unfortunately N can't shake the urge to constantly grab my monitor and keep screaming "SHUT UP IDIOTS! YOU'RE MAKING IT WORSE!!!"

 

Incidents like this are why I became an apathetic fan before 2004. And it's a struggle not to slip back into those habits now.

[a700hitter]

Yep. Nobody I know is allowed to drink at work. Nobody.

Do you know anyone who works for an organization that has an official beer sponsor? Do you know anyone who works at a job where beer is sold to people who watch them do their jobs. I'm not shocked by starters drinking beer on their off days. I am shocked that it would surprise anyone. I'm not sure why the fried chicken revelation is such a big deal either.

 

I don't think ballplayers drink beer to cope with stress. They drink beer, because that is what baseball players do. Two Yaz stories. During his HOF induction speech, Yaz said that he was always surprised when he got asked about coping with the stress of baseball. He said his answer was always the same: "What stress? Going to work everyday to support a family and raising and giving that family-- that's stressm. Playing baseball is not stress."

 

In the other story Ted Williams invited Yaz to go fishing during spring training. TeddyBallgame was a very serious fisherman. Yaz arrived at Ted's boat with a cooler of beer. Ted said that there would be no beer on his boat. Yaz said, "see ya later, Ted." LOL!

[FredLynn]

Hey, it's major f**king league baseball. These guys are making millions. Rich and famous.

TV stars.

 

And they didn't respect their manager, who looks like a fool in all this.

 

Lets face it: these players were not hired for their brains; they were hired because they have great eye hand coordination or can throw a baseball past another player. When they start talking its evident that most of them should have considered completing second grade before playing MLB. Look at what Papelbon says sometimes...especially when he forgets to take his meds.

[jung]

I never believed the beer and chicken were at the heart of the problem. They were indicative of a part of the problem. As I have said earlier, nobody would have cared about it had they been winning. Lester's comment about having done it all season, even when winning is meaningless.

 

It is when you are losing that you need to rally as a team and as Tito said, they did not do it. At the point when the roof was caving in, slipping off into the clubhouse for a beer and some chicken should have stopped. Being out there on the field while you are getting your heads handed to you by the opposition is not any fun and when it is happening night after night it is time to forget your personal comfort while your teammates are on that field getting crushed. I know for myself if I had slipped off for some "fun" while guys wearing my uniform were trying to claw their way back in a game that they were losing among many lost games I would have known that to be wrong. I would have known that to have a negative impact on the entire team effort and I would not have done it and in fact never did.

 

I have pointed to this particular incident before but for different purposes. In the last of the Baltimore games, the one that Beckett pitched in one of the worst examples of lack of team I have ever seen on a baseball field, Beckett and the rest of the team came back in from a brutal half inning. The Sox had given up either 1 or 2 runs in that half inning and had barely escaped further damage with Beckett doing what he had seldom done all season, pitching out of jam. They were at that point still in the game. The Sox went out there in their at bats and managed to record 3 outs in 6 pitches....6 pitches! Beckett had barely been able to sit down and probably whip his forehead and he was right back out there again. As you might expect the Orioles were elated probably having never seen something like that before. They broke the game open in the very next half inning and that was that.

 

Tito has said several times that he told his team that the time had come to care for each other, to pull themselves out of the abyss and into the post season. What the hell do you people think he was talking about? Do you think he expected some hero to run out there in the last inning and hit a 6 run home run? No....he expected them to pull for each other...to play like a team. They never did it and went down like the miserable dogs that most of them were.

[Cairns_Sox]

Apparently their is another team source stating the only half of what Lester said is true.

 

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/17/sox-source-jon-lesters-comments-today-only-told-part-of-the-story/

 

Who knows if it's true or credible. But I dont believe alot of what he said. Does the "shelf life" comment piss anyone else off? As I said I reckon this a PR stunt to try and clear Lester's name or smooth it over. I doubt Beckett and / or Lackey do similar.

[italstallianion]

I wish I could drink at work.

Those guys belong ON THE BENCH supporting their teamates until the last out is made. Then they can order a kegger if they want to.

 

 

I agree with your general point, although I'd argue that all of that beer and fried chicken can be bad for your system and inhibit your physical abilities later on which may or may not have contributed to the September collapse.

 

That said, I'd buy every player a few kegs and an offseason of Popeye's chicken once the season is over.

 

Some players (CC Sabathia with Captain Crunch, Miguel Cabrera, Mo Vaughn) can damn near eat themselves out of the league.

[VA Sox Fan]

I believe what Lester says over any "team source" any day. His name is tied to his statement and he completely owned up as far as I'm concerned.

 

"Team source" with no name tied to it.....LOL:lol:

[FredLynn]

I agree with your general point, although I'd argue that all of that beer and fried chicken can be bad for your system and inhibit your physical abilities later on which may or may not have contributed to the September collapse.

 

That said, I'd buy every player a few kegs and an offseason of Popeye's chicken once the season is over.

 

Some players (CC Sabathia with Captain Crunch, Miguel Cabrera, Mo Vaughn) can damn near eat themselves out of the league.

 

I was kidding about the keggers. I don't think a few beers after the game is going to do anyone any harm. And, in fact, if the chicken is fried in canola oil, its actually pretty healthy. Canola oil reduces the risk of heart attacks. IF they can handle the calories in it.

[Cairns_Sox]

I believe what Lester says over any "team source" any day. His name is tied to his statement and he completely owned up as far as I'm concerned.

 

"Team source" with no name tied to it.....LOL:lol:

 

It was a "team source" who leaked this whole thing in the first place. That's why Lester has had to come out.

[jung]

Oh come on....in the first place Lester did not have to say a God Damned thing. If there was one guy on that pitching staff that we have all been willing to cut some slack to other than Buckholtz who was injured a good bit of the time it has been Lester. This was the year Lester should have stepped up and taken the reins from Beckett and he sure as hell did not get that done. I don't give a damn why he did not get it done whether by association with the Sox Rat Pack or because he simply could not make the transition from a star/ace pitcher to the team's number 1 pitcher with all the responsibility that comes with it. But the fact is he did not get it done.

 

So since further comment by any of these goons requires more media attention and more focus on all of this ******** I have the same advice for Mr Lester that I had for Mr Ortiz about a week ago....shut the F**k up.

[Cairns_Sox]

Oh come on....in the first place Lester did not have to say a God Damned thing. If there was one guy on that pitching staff that we have all been willing to cut some slack to other than Buckholtz who was injured a good bit of the time it has been Lester. This was the year Lester should have stepped up and taken the reins from Beckett and he sure as hell did not get that done. I don't give a damn why he did not get it done whether by association with the Sox Rat Pack or because he simply could not make the transition from a star/ace pitcher to the team's number 1 pitcher with all the responsibility that comes with it. But the fact is he did not get it done.

 

So since further comment by any of these goons requires more media attention and more focus on all of this ******** I have the same advice for Mr Lester that I had for Mr Ortiz about a week ago....shut the F**k up.

 

As I said before, I believe he has been made to come out. PR knows Lester still has alot of credibilty with the fans. It's a PR stunt IMO as Beckett and Lackey are being shopped.

[jung]

As I said before, I believe he has been made to come out. PR knows Lester still has alot of credibilty with the fans. It's a PR stunt IMO as Beckett and Lackey are being shopped.

 

I can buy that and have said as much in some thread or another. But why does that mean Lester "had to". He did not have to make himself a pawn in management's Machiavellian spin machine just because they make the effort to manipulate him. If he becomes a lackey for management that is his decision. Geez I just realized we will never really be able to use the term "lackey" again in this town without saying much more than intended.

[ipot]

yes, to echo the chorus: these guys aren't hired for their brain cells or mental acuity.

 

But, Lester throwing Francona under a bus is sad and pathetic. He should've said nothing and kept it to himself if he was holding alliances with the FO.

 

This has nothing to do with whether Francona was a good or bad manager; it's just not good etiquette. For krissakes, that same Francona handed Lester the ball to start Game 4 of the 2007 WS.

 

Guy dropped a few notches for me; the price of going from wide-eyed kid with major league dreams to multi-millionaire in the 0.25% Yeah, not even 1%.

[FredLynn]

yes, to echo the chorus: these guys aren't hired for their brain cells or mental acuity.

 

But, Lester throwing Francona under a bus is sad and pathetic. He should've said nothing and kept it to himself if he was holding alliances with the FO.

 

This has nothing to do with whether Francona was a good or bad manager; it's just not good etiquette. For krissakes, that same Francona handed Lester the ball to start Game 4 of the 2007 WS.

 

Guy dropped a few notches for me; the price of going from wide-eyed kid with major league dreams to multi-millionaire in the 0.25% Yeah, not even 1%.

 

Maybe Lester was just telling the truth. I respect the guy as the first player to come forward with the truth and an apology.

As for Francona......................good luck Tito.