2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[User Name]

Anyone starting to wonder a little if this was the plan all along? Sign a bunch of rotten and failing pitchers and then convince the naive fans and press that, hell, could Wakefield be any worse, and then bring him on in. Padilla is better than Wakefield, Cook is better than Wakefield, even Miller as bad as he is, is preferable to Wakefield. The Red Sox have to learn a lesson from the Yankees.....there is a time you have to let go and move on and s*** on this sacred cow nonsense. I repeat something I said before.....if either Tim or Jason were any good some other team would have offered the something by now. No team has. If some of the bottom feeders in baseball can't find a place for these two, the Red Sox shouldn't because in actuality there is no place for them.

 

Come on Cherington,, show some balls for a change. Schedule a night for both of them and tell them bon voyage.

 

Conjecture, conjecture, conjecture.

[a700hitter]

If the season were to start tomorrow, The Sox bench would be:

 

McDonald

Punto

Shoppach

 

Talk about your thin benches. When Crawford comes back, add Sweeney to the bench. Still thin,

 

Our bullpen currently is:

 

1. Bailey

2. Melancon

3. Albers

4. Morales

5. Miller

6. Doubront/Bowden

 

The depth of this bullpen is not overwhelming either.

[seabeachfred]

If the season were to start tomorrow, The Sox bench would be:

 

McDonald

Punto

Shoppach

 

Talk about your thin benches. When Crawford comes back, add Sweeney to the bench. Still thin,

 

Our bullpen currently is:

 

1. Bailey

2. Melancon

3. Albers

4. Morales

5. Miller

6. Doubront/Bowden

 

The depth of this bullpen is not overwhelming either.

 

Well trying to cast some good light on things, when Crawford comes back we will have either Ross or Sweeney there as well and that ought to help things a little. That bullpen does look a little shaky, doesn't it? That is why I wish we could get that No. 4 starter and hope Padilla shapes up because if we could put both Bard and Aceves down there the pen would look a helluva lot better. I still hold to what I said earlier 700---the team could win the division this year but about 90% of what goes down would have to be to our benefit. It does cut things a little close, wouldn't you say my friend?

[a700hitter]

Well trying to cast some good light on things' date=' when Crawford comes back we will have either Ross or Sweeney there as well and that ought to help things a little. That bullpen does look a little shaky, doesn't it? That is why I wish we could get that No. 4 starter and hope Padilla shapes up because if we could put both Bard and Aceves down there the pen would look a helluva lot better. I still hold to what I said earlier 700---the team could win the division this year but about 90% of what goes down would have to be to our benefit. It does cut things a little close, wouldn't you say my friend?[/quote']And you and I both know that 90% of things never go right. The more likely scenario is that the thinly constructed team will experience an injury or some key under performance straining the remainder of the thin roster exposing your weak spots and overworking your stronger players to the point where their efficiency and performance suffers. The snowball starts to roll downhill, and it is a very tough thing to stop and reverse. I am hopeful, but not naive.

[jacksonianmarch]

The sox pen last yr wasnt all that bad. It just got overworked. Now, even if you somehow get the same performance out of your SU and CL, you still are missing Aceves in the swing role. That's the biggest downgrade. And even as bad as he was, Lackey did give you 5.7IP per start, which is going to be tough to replace with two career relievers getting their first taste of a big league starting rotation. That means your pen may be in for more work without Aceves. That's a recipe for disaster. Imagine what Bobby will do on a nightly basis. Hmm, down by 1, who do I go to.....Melancon. Tied, who do I go to.....Melancon. Up by 1, who do I go to.....Melancon. He's gonna get burned to a crisp, and you're still talking about a kid who sucked under the bright lights of NY and who's only success thus far has been closing for the worst team in baseball in the NLC. Bottom line, if your top 3 stay healthy, and Bard/Aceves can give innings, your pen will stay in the middle of the pack. If anyone gets hurt or if the experiment ends badly, then your pen will die

[a700hitter]

Another day and no pitching acquisition and nothing else. Yesterday, we signed some kangaroo from the outback. Whoopee!! He'll be playing softball in a couple of years with the other guy we signed last year from down under. Have a good night. See ya tomorrow for more of the same. We're within days of camp opening for pitchers and catchers-- less than a week.

 

BTW: I saw a picture of Youk. He doesn't look trimmed down very much.

[SCM33]

This ******* Wakefield has turned into one of the greediest' date=' most disgusting pieces of s*** I can ever remember in all my years of following pro sports.[/quote']

 

Well' date=' you can have him. Just as long as the selfish jerk does not don a Sox uniform ever again.[/quote']

 

So, because he wants to play baseball this year, wants to play for the RedSox, and wants to achieve the Redsox all time wins record as a pitcher.......and because hes been a member of this franchise for 18 years and understands the legacy and the importance of the record.....all of that makes him:

 

an *******

greedy

disgusting

a piece of s***

selfish

a jerk

 

The guy made one stupid remark about the wins record and now he is crucified for it?

 

Apparently you dont know about these:

His peronal charity:

http://www.timwakefieldcharityevent.com/

Another Charity he is involved with:

http://www.pitchinginforkids.org/

Winning the Roberto Clemente award, for MOST CHARITABLE MLB PLAYER:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101028&content_id=15875490&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

What a piece of s*** huh? Idiot.

[iortiz]

IMO This is not about Wake... this is about the FO if they give him a spot. I'm not sure what is the status these days, news come and go.

[iortiz]

If the season were to start tomorrow, The Sox bench would be:

 

McDonald

Punto

Shoppach

 

Talk about your thin benches. When Crawford comes back, add Sweeney to the bench. Still thin,

 

Our bullpen currently is:

 

1. Bailey

2. Melancon

3. Albers

4. Morales

5. Miller

6. Doubront/Bowden

 

The depth of this bullpen is not overwhelming either.

 

I'm not sure which side of the coin see with this. :dunno:

[SCM33]

IMO This is not about Wake... this is about the FO if they give him a spot. I'm not sure what is the status these days' date=' news come and go.[/quote']

 

He made some selfish remarks......and at the time they angered me as well, but he has a huge heart and unlike just about every player theyve "targeted" this offseason, he actually wants to play for this joke of a franchise right now.

 

That doesnt mean I want him back, because if he comes back, then the FO message is clear...we care more about selling tickets than winning. If hes back, third place is a nice comfy place for us....because giving him the opportunity for 6 wins will be at the expense of the team.

 

He isnt any of those things that idiot muggah said though, what a clown.

[iortiz]

He made some selfish remarks......and at the time they angered me as well, but he has a huge heart and unlike just about every player theyve "targeted" this offseason, he actually wants to play for this joke of a franchise right now.

 

That doesnt mean I want him back, because if he comes back, then the FO message is clear...we care more about selling tickets than winning. If hes back, third place is a nice comfy place for us....because giving him the opportunity for 6 wins will be at the expense of the team.

 

He isnt any of those things that idiot muggah said though, what a clown.

 

It was just an isolated comment my friend. I'm just saying that if Wake returns, it will not be his fault, it is FO's fault. I just do not see more fuel in that tank. I prefer give a chance to Wilson or something. Hell, Wake cost us some games last season and just because Francona wanted to give him that W-record. He already got that. Move on.

[SCM33]

It was just an isolated comment my friend. I'm just saying that if Wake returns' date=' it will not be his fault, it is FO's fault. I just do not see more fuel in that tank. I prefer give a chance to Wilson or something. Hell, Wake cost us some games last season and just because Francona wanted to give him that W-record. He already got that. Move on.[/quote']

 

My comments were not directed at you in any way, I apologize if you took it that way. No need to defend what you said.

[iortiz]

Got you SCM33. I thought that you thought that I was defending someone. I have not read the last pages of the thread being honest, reason why I said that it was an isolated comment since I noticed that you were talking about Wake... This is all my bad SCM33.

[BSN07]

Anyone starting to wonder a little if this was the plan all along? Sign a bunch of rotten and failing pitchers and then convince the naive fans and press that, hell, could Wakefield be any worse, and then bring him on in. Padilla is better than Wakefield, Cook is better than Wakefield, even Miller as bad as he is, is preferable to Wakefield. The Red Sox have to learn a lesson from the Yankees.....there is a time you have to let go and move on and s*** on this sacred cow nonsense. I repeat something I said before.....if either Tim or Jason were any good some other team would have offered the something by now. No team has. If some of the bottom feeders in baseball can't find a place for these two, the Red Sox shouldn't because in actuality there is no place for them.

 

Come on Cherington,, show some balls for a change. Schedule a night for both of them and tell them bon voyage.

 

The only thing I'm wondering is what size your tin foil hat is?

[Palodios]

Palodios, I usually agree with 99% of what you post but not this time. Wakefield's time is up. He is a distraction with his nonsense about "people wanting to come and watch me set the record" as he muttered last summer. How many starts did it take for him to get that 200th win last summer.....eight, nine, ten????? In the meantime we lost games that might have won. He was totally useless at the end of the season and his presence on the team deprives someone younger a chance to be on the team. He's no good any more!!!!! If he was someone would have signed him by now. The Yankees said goodbye to Williams, Posada and Brosias and Tino. We have to be able to do the same and end this damn sacred cow crap. If Wakefield wants to pitch let him talk some other team into signing him.

 

 

Just to be clear-- I have said multiple times that I absolutely do not want him back on this team. What I've been trying to prove is that despite how bad he is... the rest of the options aren't really that great either. It would be one thing if they needed one of the garbage heap to succeed, but they're relying on everyone being healthy and TWO of those guys succeeding. I have no problem hoping for the best at times, but they've left this team very very thin-- to the point where Wakefield may be better than some of the options they have.

[Bellhorn04]

So, because he wants to play baseball this year, wants to play for the RedSox, and wants to achieve the Redsox all time wins record as a pitcher.......and because hes been a member of this franchise for 18 years and understands the legacy and the importance of the record.....all of that makes him:

 

an *******

greedy

disgusting

a piece of s***

selfish

a jerk

 

The guy made one stupid remark about the wins record and now he is crucified for it?

 

Apparently you dont know about these:

His peronal charity:

http://www.timwakefieldcharityevent.com/

Another Charity he is involved with:

http://www.pitchinginforkids.org/

Winning the Roberto Clemente award, for MOST CHARITABLE MLB PLAYER:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101028&content_id=15875490&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

What a piece of s*** huh? Idiot.

 

Good post. :thumbsup:

[VA Sox Fan]

So, because he wants to play baseball this year, wants to play for the RedSox, and wants to achieve the Redsox all time wins record as a pitcher.......and because hes been a member of this franchise for 18 years and understands the legacy and the importance of the record.....all of that makes him:

 

an *******

greedy

disgusting

a piece of s***

selfish

a jerk

 

The guy made one stupid remark about the wins record and now he is crucified for it?

 

Apparently you dont know about these:

His peronal charity:

http://www.timwakefieldcharityevent.com/

Another Charity he is involved with:

http://www.pitchinginforkids.org/

Winning the Roberto Clemente award, for MOST CHARITABLE MLB PLAYER:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101028&content_id=15875490&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

What a piece of s*** huh? Idiot.

 

Nice post. The name-calling is ridiculous.

[a700hitter]

Just to be clear-- I have said multiple times that I absolutely do not want him back on this team. What I've been trying to prove is that despite how bad he is... the rest of the options aren't really that great either. It would be one thing if they needed one of the garbage heap to succeed' date=' but they're relying on everyone being healthy and TWO of those guys succeeding. I have no problem hoping for the best at times, but they've left this team very very thin-- to the point where Wakefield may be better than some of the options they have.[/quote']I get what you are saying. Unbelievably, he is no worse than Silva, Cook or Maine. Of our so-called depth acquisitions only an arm and head healthy Padilla would be clearly better than Wake. Of course Padilla has had arm problems for 3 years and he has always been a nut, so he is a long shot. It would be a very bad sign of things to come if Wake breaks camp with this team. If he does, I think it would speak volumes of Ben Cher's futility in rebuilding the staff. If he can't upgrade last seasons weakest link, I'd have to give him an F grade.

 

Personally, I will be very pissed if Wake is on the team, because I will guarantee you that I will catch one of his games on each of my trips to Fenway. It's uncanny how often his turn has fallen on games that I have attended.

[jacksonianmarch]

Wake is a guy hanging on at this point, but the white of his fingernails. He's never been conventional, so it's easy to hate the guy as a fan of the sox. I've always respected Wake. He's like an every man. I know he was a minor league 1b, but he looks like he's in his mid 40s and he's on the mound throwing the ball way slower than I could. Yet he's been effective. From a baseball perspective, fans want their teams to be younger and devoid of risk. Also from a fan's perspective, you don't want to see your old team stalwarts play themselves into minor league deals. Unfortunately, sometimes you just need to know when it is time.

[a700hitter]

Hopefully Wake will pick up a bad case of career ending nail fungus so we are spared more forfeit games by sending him to the hill. Enough already. Unlike others, I don't blame Wake for wanting to play. Being an MLB player is an incredible lifestyle, and once it's over there is no going back. Most players have to have the uniform torn from their backs. It's up to Ben to tear off his uniform. When it happens, hopefully, Wakefield will handle it with dignity. Not everyone does. I remember a crippled one-legged empty shell Bill Buckner launching into a tirade after the Sox cut him after a second tour of duty with the team. He was brought back as a way of mending fences even though his tank was empty. He hit .150 or something like that and he was released. He bitterly told the press that the Sox would regret that. He never played MLB again. He left in a very undignified manner.

[Muggah]

He made some selfish remarks......and at the time they angered me as well, but he has a huge heart and unlike just about every player theyve "targeted" this offseason, he actually wants to play for this joke of a franchise right now.

 

That doesnt mean I want him back, because if he comes back, then the FO message is clear...we care more about selling tickets than winning. If hes back, third place is a nice comfy place for us....because giving him the opportunity for 6 wins will be at the expense of the team.

 

He isnt any of those things that idiot muggah said though, what a clown.

 

If you don't like reading my opinions, put me on ignore. But enough with the name calling. Got it?

[Emmz]

If you don't like reading my opinions' date=' put me on ignore. But enough with the name calling. Got it?[/quote']

 

Careful guys, we're dealing with a badass over here.

[VA Sox Fan]

Hopefully Wake will pick up a bad case of career ending nail fungus so we are spared more forfeit games by sending him to the hill. Enough already. Unlike others' date=' I don't blame Wake for wanting to play. Being an MLB player is an incredible lifestyle, and once it's over there is no going back. Most players have to have the uniform torn from their backs. It's up to Ben to tear off his uniform. When it happens, hopefully, Wakefield will handle it with dignity. Not everyone does. I remember a crippled one-legged empty shell Bill Buckner launching into a tirade after the Sox cut him after a second tour of duty with the team. He was brought back as a way of mending fences even though his tank was empty. He hit .150 or something like that and he was released. He bitterly told the press that the Sox would regret that. He never played MLB again. He left in a very undignified manner.[/quote']

 

 

I agree. Nice post about Wake and the retirement situation!

[VA Sox Fan]

Careful guys' date=' we're dealing with a badass over here.[/quote']

 

Seriously! I know I'm trembling!

 

[RedSox_Ruszkowski]

no baseball player just wants to retire.... rare circumstances it happens. They're athletes. Athletes want to compete. It's hard to just walk away from what has been your life for so many years. Some refuse to believe that they just don't have good stuff anymore. Our F.O. needs to make Wake realize that, but in a dignified way. i understand that it's a business, but there are right and wrong ways to let players go in my opinion. And it has to be harder for WAke seeing as though he is so close to the record. But he has no real value to this team anymore. i cringe whenever he's on the mound. He has put in some great years with the Sox, but he's only doing more harm than good at this point. Maybe let him pitch one game for a few innings to a sold out crowd and let him walk off the field waving his cap for his final hoo-rah! Job well done and we thank you for all that you have done....

[User Name]

Careful guys' date=' we're dealing with a badass over here.[/quote']

 

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/200/420/BRTky.jpg?1321408042

[User Name]

Wake is a guy hanging on at this point' date=' but the white of his fingernails. He's never been conventional, so it's easy to hate the guy as a fan of the sox. I've always respected Wake. He's like an every man. I know he was a minor league 1b, but he looks like he's in his mid 40s and he's on the mound throwing the ball way slower than I could. Yet he's been effective. From a baseball perspective, fans want their teams to be younger and devoid of risk. Also from a fan's perspective, you don't want to see your old team stalwarts play themselves into minor league deals. Unfortunately, sometimes you just need to know when it is time.[/quote']

 

For a lot of fans, it's not about sentimentalism. It's simply the fact that he's done.

[BSN07]

If you don't like reading my opinions' date=' put me on ignore. But enough with the name calling. Got it?[/quote']

 

Seriously? You can lable players or anyone having anything to do with the Sox pretty much anything you like, but someone calls you a clown and you get all butt-hurt? Wipe the sand from your vagina(no disrespect female memebers ) and grow a set

 

C'mon man...

[User Name]

The sox pen last yr wasnt all that bad.

 

The Red Sox BP was fourth in the AL last year in ERA, and first in WAR. It's not that it "wasn't all that bad" it was very good.

 

Now, even if you somehow get the same performance out of your SU and CL, you still are missing Aceves in the swing role. That's the biggest downgrade. And even as bad as he was, Lackey did give you 5.7IP per start, which is going to be tough to replace with two career relievers getting their first taste of a big league starting rotation. That means your pen may be in for more work without Aceves. That's a recipe for disaster. Imagine what Bobby will do on a nightly basis. Hmm, down by 1, who do I go to.....Melancon. Tied, who do I go to.....Melancon. Up by 1, who do I go to.....Melancon. He's gonna get burned to a crisp, and you're still talking about a kid who sucked under the bright lights of NY and who's only success thus far has been closing for the worst team in baseball in the NLC. Bottom line, if your top 3 stay healthy, and Bard/Aceves can give innings, your pen will stay in the middle of the pack. If anyone gets hurt or if the experiment ends badly, then your pen will die

 

You are assuming that both Bard and Aceves will be in the BP. That's highly unlikely. And again, the Sox pen wasn't "middle of the pack" last year. If the 'pen can come close to last year's level of performance without the overworking issue, it may end up putting better numbers by season's end.

[jacksonianmarch]

No, I'm not. I am saying that if the sox top 3 can stay healthy with Bard and Aceves as the 4 and 5, then the pen will improve. I am also saying that with Paps in Philly, and Aceves and Bard in the rotation, the pen is weaker, even with the additions of Melancon and Bailey.

 

Also, I was looking from a MLB standpoint. The sox were 13th in the MLB in pen ERA, which is middle of the pack.

 

And the WAR argument for pen guys is a little skewed because the goal of the pen is not to throw a ton of innings, as it is with starters. And it is weighted by IP substantially. And the sox threw the second most innings in the AL to Baltimore, so their WAR should be high