2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[FredLynn]

Are you concerned about Beckett or Buchholz breaking down?

 

One or more of our legitimate SP will miss significant time due to injury this year. You can almost take that to the bank. It would be an incredible stroke of luck if that didn't happen. So we should all be prepared to see lots of dung on the hill this year.

[jung]

One or more of our legitimate SP will miss significant time due to injury this year. You can almost take that to the bank. It would be an incredible stroke of luck if that didn't happen. So we should all be prepared to see lots of dung on the hill this year.

 

I actually think the Sox are holding onto what we would think is a pretty slim hope. I think they believe dice will be back in time to contribute in 2012. I really have a hard time with that one. OK so based on timing of events you would say that he should actually be throwing some time this year. However coming back off of TJ, pitchers really don't know what they have. Surgery has given them an arm that they have never thrown with before as professionals. They often have more stuff than they may have ever had as professionals.They have to find their control again. They have to rediscover how to control their velocity and their location. So dice will likely be throwing this year but I still question whether he can provide the Sox any meaningful contributions. He could, don't get me wrong. But I would put it at no more than a possibility. I would not put it at a probability and I would not expect that we know anything about that until July or August.

 

Seems to me that they way BC and V talk about it they are considering it more of a probability.

[a700hitter]

I actually think the Sox are holding onto what we would think is a pretty slim hope. I think they believe dice will be back in time to contribute in 2012. I really have a hard time with that one.

I have a problem with this too. Keep in mind that since 2008 he has not been much help even when he has been healthy.

[Bellhorn04]

I have a problem with this too. Keep in mind that since 2008 he has not been much help even when he has been healthy.

 

Yes, fair enough. But even if he could give what he did in 2010, some innings and a 4.69 ERA, it would be a help.

[FredLynn]

Yes' date=' fair enough. But even if he could give what he did in 2010, some innings and a 4.69 ERA, it would be a help.[/quote']

 

He would be an adequate #5 SP IMO, if he can give us about a 4.5 ERA. I do think thats one thing they are counting on, his return to some sort of form. This is a contract year for the Mound Rodent, so he could possibly exceed expectations, as players are prone to do in contract years. Personally, I have my doubts that Matsusaka will do anything other than suck for the team, but if I am wrong, he could be a big boost, and we could still be under the cap.

[BSN07]

Are you concerned about Beckett or Buchholz breaking down?

 

I'm concerned about the health of each and every player. But that doesn't mean I'm going to go all gloom and doom as far as this season goes. The SF Giants won a WS with a mediocore offense, 2 stud pitchers and a couple guys that played above their heads for crying out loud. This team has a better offense, 2-3 strong pitchers and a decent BP.

 

I mean some people around here(not directed at only you) seem so convinced this team will suck that they might as well sign off and come back next November

 

And no a700, I was not concerned you were missing a meal or sleep, I know the nursing homes have regular eating schedules and have a set bed time(I was gonna leave it at that, but I wanted to make sure you knew this last part is an absolulte poke in the ribs and just for fun )

 

C'mon start of the season, the winter madness is getting to everyone!

[a700hitter]

I'm concerned about the health of each and every player. But that doesn't mean I'm going to go all gloom and doom as far as this season goes. The SF Giants won a WS with a mediocore offense, 2 stud pitchers and a couple guys that played above their heads for crying out loud. This team has a better offense, 2-3 strong pitchers and a decent BP.

 

I mean some people around here(not directed at only you) seem so convinced this team will suck that they might as well sign off and come back next November

 

And no a700, I was not concerned you were missing a meal or sleep, I know the nursing homes have regular eating schedules and have a set bed time(I was gonna leave it at that, but I wanted to make sure you knew this last part is an absolulte poke in the ribs and just for fun )

 

C'mon start of the season, the winter madness is getting to everyone!

Nursing home? Big talk from a guy that plays baseball in a wooden shoe league.

 

So you are not gloom and doom. Good for you, but I am sure that if Oswalt gets signed you will be saying that we never should have doubted Ben Cherry. If that happens, we will both be happy. I'll be happy, because Ben will fill a need that I have gone on record about, and you will be happy even though you didn't think we needed him.

[SoxSport]

I agree. If he's healthy Oswalt is a very good pitcher. I'm still hoping we can get him.

 

 

Oswalt is a guy with a low salary/ incentives one-year contract written all over him. I get the impression he wants a lot more than anyone will give. If he wants to pitch this year, he will have to settle for an incentives contract.

[Elktonnick]

Oswalt is a guy with a low salary/ incentives one-year contract written all over him. I get the impression he wants a lot more than anyone will give. If he wants to pitch this year' date=' he will have to settle for an incentives contract.[/quote']

 

Agreed. He also has little incentive to pitch in the tough ALE in places like Fenway, Yankee Stadium and Campden Yards. Word is he wants to stay close to his Mississippi home.

[a700hitter]

Agreed. He also has little incentive to pitch in the tough ALE in places like Fenway' date=' Yankee Stadium and Campden Yards. Word is he wants to stay close to his Mississippi home.[/quote']Too bad that the marlins don't have a spot for him. He would have been a better choice than Carlos Z.

[jung]

Good for Oswalt...let him stay close to his home. The last thing we need is another brooding loner glaring out from his locker. Oswalt would have done himself a world of good if teams thought one of the intangibles he carried in his bag of tricks was an ability to mentor or at least provide example to young pitchers....but not this guy.

 

If he wanted to pitch in the AL East I might be more optimistic and less critical but he will end up pitching somewhere in the NL and probably for more than the Sox appear willing to offer.

[iortiz]

According with bleacher report TB has the best rotation in the majors. TB, NYY, TEX, and LAA are above us in this department. We need a SP so badly.

 

1. TB

2. Philli

3. SF Giants

4. LAA

5. Braves

6. NYY

7. Texas

8. STL

9. Nats

10. Bos.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ations/page/22

[SoxSport]

Too bad that the marlins don't have a spot for him. He would have been a better choice than Carlos Z.

 

That Mississippi drawl doesn't go over big in South Beach.

[SoxSport]

According with bleacher report TB has the best rotation in the majors. TB, NYY, TEX, and LAA are above us in this department. We need a SP so badly.

 

1. TB

2. Philli

3. SF Giants

4. LAA

5. Braves

6. NYY

7. Texas

8. STL

9. Nats

10. Bos.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ations/page/22

 

TB is overrated. The Phillies have 3 of the top 5-6 starting pitchers in Baseball.

 

It took an incredible collapse by the Red Sox last year for TB to make the playoffs.

Think that will happen again this year?

[SoxSport]

One or more of our legitimate SP will miss significant time due to injury this year. You can almost take that to the bank. It would be an incredible stroke of luck if that didn't happen. So we should all be prepared to see lots of dung on the hill this year.

 

I'm waiting for the year when Sabathia goes on the DL. The Yankees have gotten a ton of mileage out of him the last few years.

[iortiz]

TB is overrated. The Phillies have 3 of the top 5-6 starting pitchers in Baseball.

 

It took an incredible collapse by the Red Sox last year for TB to make the playoffs.

Think that will happen again this year?

 

Let me play devil's advocate. Will top three stay healthy 190 IP+? Will they post atleast their career numbers?. Are Bard/Aceves the solution?

 

If you give me 3 yes, this team is a WS caliber.

[jung]

All three....190+: No

At least career average numbers: Yes with the exception of innings at least one case

Bard and Aceves the answer: Maybe

[seabeachfred]

Bottom line is this is not a playoff caliber team' date=' and nothing makes that more evident than the way ownership has refused to help it become one---simple as that. People might want to start thinking about reeling in any expectations they have of this team finishing anything above 3rd place. And as I've said, I'm not sure they beat out the Jays for that honor.[/quote']

 

We've been pals for, what Muggah, five years? We can read each other like a book and don't think I can't follow what you're saying. I'm just holding out that if we can have a run of luck of good health, players not having off years, our main pitchers living up to their abilities, and a manager who will not cost us between 10-12 games a year, could be a pleasant surprise. We underachieved last year; maybe this year we overachieve. It's happened before----the '69 Mets, the '85 Royals, the '88 Dodgers, the '90 Reds, and there were a few others before that. All I'm saying it can happen. No credit to the front office, though. They are still acting like sabateurs and undermining their own team, and I think I've seen enough of Cherington to post him as a second rate GM who is risk averse and has real trouble making a decision, and, what's worse, he is a procrastinator. And I don't think this guy will ever get better. To those out there who disagree, this is MY opinion and mine only.

[SoxSport]

Let me play devil's advocate. Will top three stay healthy 190 IP+? Will they post atleast their career numbers?. Are Bard/Aceves the solution?

 

If you give me 3 yes, this team is a WS caliber.

 

I doubt it, but every team has this question with their pitching. It's called the luck factor.

 

Bard/Aceves could win 20-25 games total next year--or 5 games. Maybe Bard will ultimately close. Hard to predict. See how things look after spring training. They figure to be spending less time on the Sanibel beach with Bobby V as manager.

 

I'll say one thing: The Sox are due for some good fortune after the last couple years.

[seabeachfred]

Nick Cafardo just interviewed said that some number of insiders have told him that Ortiz would likely win his arbitration at $16.5M. If that is true it speaks volumes to what is wrong with the arbitration process.

 

Cafardo went on to say that it was his expectation the Sox would not make additional major changes going into ST but would "tweak" the team and get more pitching before or at the trade deadline if they thought it the right move to make.

 

Cherington started his GM career with a colossal mistake---offering Ortiz arbitration and believing he would turn it down when so many of us here knew he would grab it. From there it just killed our ability to make some needed changes, and the incompetent Benny Boy had better make a notation that next winter HE DOES NOT OFFER ORTIZ ARBITRATION and that we move on from the guy and thank him for his ten years of help to us. I don't want Lavarnway blocked any more. It was a stupid mistake on Bozo's part.

[seabeachfred]

I agree. If he's healthy Oswalt is a very good pitcher. I'm still hoping we can get him.

 

We're not getting him Bob, 700, Muggah, Sox Sport and the rest of my colleagues on this board. We are not getting him. We are not getting him unless the Red Sox are willing to raise the ante a little bit and they have stubbornly refused to do so, and if it's true that we are already over the LT it makes this policy seem totally ridiculous. Raise the ante Bozo and make my pals 700 and Bob happy and give us a chance to compete this season.

[SoxSport]

Cherington started his GM career with a colossal mistake---offering Ortiz arbitration and believing he would turn it down when so many of us here knew he would grab it. From there it just killed our ability to make some needed changes' date=' and the incompetent Benny Boy had better make a notation that next winter HE DOES NOT OFFER ORTIZ ARBITRATION and that we move on from the guy and thank him for his ten years of help to us. I don't want Lavarnway blocked any more. It was a stupid mistake on Bozo's part.[/quote']

 

I recall reading somewhere that it was Henry's decision to give Ortiz arbitration--out of loyalty. I doubt Ben would have made this decision on his own--not when it was made earlier. I think Henry made a mistake. Ortiz hasn't shown a lot of loyalty in return.

[a700hitter]

We're not getting him Bob' date=' 700, Muggah, Sox Sport and the rest of my colleagues on this board. We are not getting him. We are not getting him unless the Red Sox are willing to raise the ante a little bit and they have stubbornly refused to do so, and if it's true that we are already over the LT it makes this policy seem totally ridiculous. Raise the ante Bozo and make my pals 700 and Bob happy and give us a chance to compete this season.[/quote']I know that it is a pipe dream, but he is very good and very affordable, especially compared to past acquisitions like Jenks etc.

[seabeachfred]

One or more of our legitimate SP will miss significant time due to injury this year. You can almost take that to the bank. It would be an incredible stroke of luck if that didn't happen. So we should all be prepared to see lots of dung on the hill this year.

 

Well we've plenty of that Pumpsie. "Short Order" Cook, "Hi Ho Silva, Deutschland Germano, "Millstone" Miller, "Slacks" Heager, "White Coat" Padilla. You could fertilize a lot acres with that kind of dung.

 

Forgive me for the use of nicknames guys and gals. I got agitated again knowing that Oswalt is still out there and we are twidling our thumbs and still refusing to spend money needed to give us a decent chance to win. I'm surprised many of you out there can stay calm when our house is on fire.

[jung]

I think JH did have something to do with Arbitration for Ortiz but the "loyalty" angle is a smokescreen. JH wants some attachment to the championship years on this year's team given the Fenway 100th year anniversary.

[seabeachfred]

I'm waiting for the year when Sabathia goes on the DL. The Yankees have gotten a ton of mileage out of him the last few years.

 

You said a mouthful there SoxSport, but I wonder why we can't get the same ton of mileage from our guys. Wouldn't it be swell if Beckett could go out there for the entire 162 game schedule and we wouldn't have to read that he may miss one or two or three starts, that Buchholz is good to go every time it's his turn, that Lester is finally putting his enormous talent together and is leading the league in wins and ERA? They luck is the residue of design, but just the same a smile or two from Dame Fortune would make things a lot easier for the whole lot of us.

[Elktonnick]

Now we have Carl Crawford being accused of swindling a former business partner. While I am not going tto prejudge this case but it seems the Red Sox players have more than their share of off field distractions.

[Elktonnick]

I think JH did have something to do with Arbitration for Ortiz but the "loyalty" angle is a smokescreen. JH wants some attachment to the championship years on this year's team given the Fenway 100th year anniversary.

 

If that were true (re JH and loyalty to Ortiz) then why not just pay Ortiz the 16 million and avoid arbitration all together. This one doesn't pass the smell test.

[a700hitter]

Manny Ramirez Deciding Between A's, Orioles, Jays

By Mark Polishuk [February 3 at 4:16pm CST]

 

FRIDAY: Ramirez is deciding between the Orioles, A's and Blue Jays, Enrique Rojas of ESPNDeportesLosAngeles.com reports (link in Spanish). Once he decides on a club, his agents will negotiate a possible deal.

[FredLynn]

TB is overrated. The Phillies have 3 of the top 5-6 starting pitchers in Baseball.

 

It took an incredible collapse by the Red Sox last year for TB to make the playoffs.

Think that will happen again this year?

 

Did you make that up, or did you check the Rays' pitching stats for the past couple of years? Last year they had the second best ERA in the AL by just .01 percentage points-and playing 36 games against the Red Sox and the Yankees-and the year before that they were also #2.

I wish we were so overrated.