2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[FredLynn]

That's just about what I'm saying. Not far away from reasons for optimism. Almost sounds like a consensus was reached here today. Except for Fred who still thinks it's all one big clusterf**k.

 

Nope.

So near, but yet so far.

Someone famous once said that.

If they fail to get a #4 SP and a good RP then I don't think we really can compete for a ring. It will be very very tough.

[FredLynn]

This is the setup that I like the most so far. If Doubront is healthy enough to start' date=' he will be fine as a #5 option. Elite rotation, elite lineup, elite defense, elite bullpen. If only these guys could stay healthy...[/quote']

 

Just one point: you cannot have Miller/Jenks/Bowden/Atchison.

If and when Jenks returns HE will be the name there. All the other guys are out of options and will probably be lost to the club when he gets back.

[Palodios]

That's what I have been saying all along. A RH OF er would be nice to have but not critical. A starting pitcher that can be penciled in for 180-200 innings is a big need. As the days click off the calendar' date=' I am getting increasingly nervous that they might not get one.[/quote']

 

Have you looked at the rumors for Oswalt, Saunders, Kuroda, Jurrjens, Garza, and Floyd? Ben's nose has been in all of them. The only player he seems to be ignoring is Jackson, who I suspect will end up in pinstripes... since no other teams seem all that interested in his price right now.

[Palodios]

Just one point: you cannot have Miller/Jenks/Bowden/Atchison.

If and when Jenks returns HE will be the name there. All the other guys are out of options and will probably be lost to the club when he gets back.

 

I only looked 5 deep into the bullpen. Bard/Mel/Bail/Ace/Morales makes a pretty beautiful pen-- they can fill in the other slots as necessary.

[seabeachfred]

The "cup is half empty" entourage is not really the majority out here. It'll get better closer to Spring Training. I understand negativity and criticism but not constantly and consistently. It's boring. So is constant optimism. Find a balance folks. If we listened to and bought into the naysayers, we'd go crazy.

 

Not one person on this board knows how the 2012 season will begin or end. Regardless, I'll be there for every moment of it.

 

Pardon my optimism without hard facts to back it.

 

Hey, I agree with that VA----and I've tried to keep some balance even if I lean right now to some deep reservations about the team. I have consistently said that the Red Sox could have a solid season and even win the AL East if we could sign a solid No. 4 pitcher, add one good reliever to the mix and, yes, a RH hitting outfielder with some sock. Without those additions, though, the cup is half full and leakin, but no Red So fan I know of is going to throw in the towel and desert the team, not in a million years. I just hope Cherington sees the problem and addresses it. I miss that 2007 feeling and I want to win something this year.

[a700hitter]

Have you looked at the rumors for Oswalt' date=' Saunders, Kuroda, Jurrjens, Garza, and Floyd? Ben's nose has been in all of them. The only player he seems to be ignoring is Jackson, who I suspect will end up in pinstripes... since no other teams seem all that interested in his price right now.[/quote']But for each of those rumors there are two rumors that each of those guys are too expensive for the Sox either money-wise or prospect-wise.

[seabeachfred]

That's just about what I'm saying. Not far away from reasons for optimism. Almost sounds like a consensus was reached here today. Except for Fred who still thinks it's all one big clusterf**k.

 

Well Bob, if you were keeping up with most of my posts, I have reiterated my position that if we could sign a solid No. 4 starter and added another quality reliever we could win the AL East this coming season. That would not be a cluster-you know what. If we don't it will be just that. Look, I don't think anyone on this board disputes the notion that we need that No. 4 starter, most believe we need another reliever, and some of us want that RH hitting outfielder. I'd be willing to see our team take them all on with that kind of ensemble of talent, but we need to make those additions.

[Palodios]

But for each of those rumors there are two rumors that each of those guys are too expensive for the Sox either money-wise or prospect-wise.

 

And those guys have so far been too expensive for everyone else too. It tells me that Ben is looking, he's working, and until they're going into 2012 with Cook and Miller at the back end of the rotation, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt that he'll find someone.

[SoxSport]

I read that Steinbrenner is talking to Boras about Edwin Jackson. Seems I recall Steinbrenner doing the same a year ago about Soriano--going over Cashman's head. Looks like the same deal this year with Jackson, a 3rd or 4th starter who wants a Boras ransom, $16-18mm per year, he won't get even from Steinbrenner.

 

I wonder how the media would react to Henry or LL going over Ben's head about signing a free agent?

Well, we have just seen the reaction with the choice of Bobby V. as manager over Ben's "choice" Sveum.

And that was papered over by the Red Sox as if Ben had been part of the process (maybe he was).

 

The point is Steinbrenner goes over Cashman's head, and there is a hardly a media ripple. And Cash is hardly a rookie GM. Hank could care less about the media. He just wants to win.

[iortiz]

Well iortiz we have our man south of the border holding down the fort for us, but I'll bet you will be as pissed off as some of us up here in El Norte if we have another crapola season this year. What boggles my mind is that either Cherry Cola doesn't see what our team needs or is going to try and establish his reputation by hoping some of the turds he signed hit the jackpot and then be called a genius. Ain't gonna happen iortiz because our amigo in Boston has his head between his legs and can't see front from back. He needs to get his sh!t together and it may take the press and media to get him freed from his rapture.

 

Let's try to keep the faith my friend.

 

A lot of Mexicans are dodgers fans 1. Because a lot Mexicans live in LA 2. Because our friend Fernando Valenzuela had such success in the early 80s that some people around here still remember his awsome 1981 season. Adrian Gonzalez is hardly known in my country even though he has been the best Mexican professional sport player paid in our history, even above the boxer Julio Cesar Chavez and the soccer player who played for El Real Madrid, Hugo Sanchez. Anyway... My point is, I hope to be in Boston this year. This would be my first time in Fenway. Hopefully we have a contender team and I see this team win at live, so....We better bring the goddamn pitcher

[SoxSport]

A lot of Mexicans are dodgers fans 1. Because a lot Mexicans live in LA 2. Because our friend Fernando Valenzuela had such success in the early 80s that some people around here still remember his awsome 1981 season. Adrian Gonzalez is hardly known in my country even though he has been the best Mexican professional sport player paid in our history' date=' even above the boxer Julio Cesar Chavez and the soccer player who played for El Real Madrid, Hugo Sanchez. Anyway... My point is, I hope to be in Boston this year. This would be my first time in Fenway. Hopefully we have a contender team and see this team win at live, so....We better bring the goddamn pitcher [/quote']

 

Iortiz--why the heck would a guy from Monterrey, Mexico be a Red Sox fan?

 

I recall the old Brando western One-Eyed Jacks was filmed in the Monterrey area--some great beach scenes on the ocean. Beautiful country. And then there was the famous song "It happened in Monterrey" which I jotted down as part of a reply to your post a while back without much explanation--as a passing thought.

 

The Yankees, by the way, have that young Mexican left hander who could be good next year.

[iortiz]

Iortiz--why the heck would a guy from Monterrey' date=' Mexico be a Red Sox fan? [/quote']

 

Good question my friend. It is actually a long story. Basically my fandom is based on the eviorement and the fan base which is very similar to my soccer team. Someday I'll explain you with all the details. I'm not sure if there is a thread about this.

 

I recall the old Brando western One-Eyed Jacks was filmed in the Monterrey area--some great beach scenes on the ocean. Beautiful country. And then there was the famous song "It happened in Monterrey" which I jotted down as part of a reply to your post a while back without much explanation--as a passing thought.

 

I clearly remember that post. A great one BTW. I was in a "Cantina" when I read your post and I showed it to some of my friends. :thumbsup:

 

 

The Yankees, by the way, have that young Mexican left hander who could be good next year.

 

The 3B? Pena? He is from Monterrey.

 

In Boston we have "el Titan" Adrian (from Baja California) and "el Paton" Aceves (from Sonora)

[jung]

If only these guys could stay healthy...

 

And that is where most of the banana peels for this team are waiting. No team can stay healthy. In the case of the Sox they are almost configured not to stay healthy and they are as ill prepared so far in this team as they were in 2011, maybe even a tad worse.

[example1]

We're still waiting to hear from the so-called optimists on this. As predicted' date=' they got nothing.:thumbdown[/quote']

 

I don't feel like spending much time to make this point because no matter how much time I spend you will disagree. Again, you're consistent.

 

However, I think having Buchholz (in theory) being healthy will be a huge addition. I also think they are going to add one more SP and will have better MLB caliber depth in 2012 than they did in 2011. Finally, Lester had a relatively poor year last year. He's young and has some of the best talent in the league. There's a very good chance he will return to form.

[iortiz]

Btw SoxSport, I think that the old Brando western One-Eyed Jacks was filmed in Cancun or somewhere else because in Monterrey we don't have sea. But yes, Mexico is a beautiful country; beautiful beaches, a lot of culture, great food, amazing history, a lot of natural resources, great people, beautiful women, etc. nothing else to ask...

[jung]

And those guys have so far been too expensive for everyone else too. It tells me that Ben is looking, he's working, and until they're going into 2012 with Cook and Miller at the back end of the rotation, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt that he'll find someone.

 

I said yesterday that I would not at all be surprised if the Sox had at that point the best offer in front of Kuroda and they are being nudged upward as a part of the process. I think Kuroda would have been gone by now if there is not a very active but subtle competition going on for his services with nobody coming in with that offer that completely seals the deal. I would bet that the possible suitors are offering incentive laden contracts and those could be difficult to parse one to the next if you are Kuroda and his agent. That said, you would knock me over with a feather if there is not a legitimate offer from somebody in front of Kuroda right now. I will be very surprised if there is no announcement on Kuroda by Monday.

[iortiz]

Oswalt Still On Rangers' Radar

By Zach Links [January 12 at 10:56pm CST]

As negotiations with Yu Darvish appear to be going well, the Rangers continue to make inquiries on veteran right-hander Roy Oswalt, a major league official told Gerry Fraley of The Dallas Morning News.* Bob Garber, who represents Oswalt, declined to comment.

 

Earlier today, we learned that the Yankees are in contact with Oswalt as well as Hiroki Kuroda.* The Red Sox also remain interested in the 34-year-old but, like the Yankees, are looking to cap their spending.

 

[iortiz]

Epstein says the Red Sox should obtain compensation for his departure, but he cited Andy MacPhail's move to the Cubs in 1994 and cautioned that historical precedent suggests the Red Sox shouldn't obtain much from Chicago.

[win red sox]

 

this probaly has something to do with the Darvish negotiations.

[seabeachfred]

A lot of Mexicans are dodgers fans 1. Because a lot Mexicans live in LA 2. Because our friend Fernando Valenzuela had such success in the early 80s that some people around here still remember his awsome 1981 season. Adrian Gonzalez is hardly known in my country even though he has been the best Mexican professional sport player paid in our history' date=' even above the boxer Julio Cesar Chavez and the soccer player who played for El Real Madrid, Hugo Sanchez. Anyway... My point is, I hope to be in Boston this year. This would be my first time in Fenway. Hopefully we have a contender team and I see this team win at live, so....We better bring the goddamn pitcher [/quote']

 

If you happen to get to LA this year let me know about it. I live in Arcadia, about 17 miles from Los Angeles. It would be great to meet up with you and I would take you to Ernie's Taco House, a terrific Mexican Restaurant in Eagle Rock. Let me know.

 

And, yes, we better bring that Goddamn pitcher.

[iortiz]

If you happen to get to LA this year let me know about it. I live in Arcadia, about 17 miles from Los Angeles. It would be great to meet up with you and I would take you to Ernie's Taco House, a terrific Mexican Restaurant in Eagle Rock. Let me know.

 

And, yes, we better bring that Goddamn pitcher.

 

Thank you Fred. The same; if you happen to to comedown to Monterrey, let me know, I'd take you to eat "Cabrito" (typical Monterrey dish) with tortillas (hand-made), salsa picante and cold beer.

 

BTW Some of My wife's family live in SD. They live in La Jolla. Very nice people. I love SD, beautiful city. We are planning to go to Napa. We are huge red wine fans. I'll let you know.

[RedSoxNC84]

I don't believe depth signings are all we're going to see for the remainder of the offseason, I think they are trying to brew something up with Oswalt or Kuroda. Jackson in my opinion is far too expensive for what the Sox are looking for currently. I think they could get Oswalt on a reasonable one year deal, or possibly Kuroda on the same type of deal. After that, I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple more bullpen signings as well as the dumpster diver depth guys will be competing for the roles of who-gets-called-up-first-in-case-of-injury.

 

Basically I think they are trying to wait out the Yankees, see which one of the two the Yanks sign first, then grab the other one.

[iortiz]

I don't believe depth signings are all we're going to see for the remainder of the offseason, I think they are trying to brew something up with Oswalt or Kuroda. Jackson in my opinion is far too expensive for what the Sox are looking for currently. I think they could get Oswalt on a reasonable one year deal, or possibly Kuroda on the same type of deal. After that, I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple more bullpen signings as well as the dumpster diver depth guys will be competing for the roles of who-gets-called-up-first-in-case-of-injury.

 

Basically I think they are trying to wait out the Yankees, see which one of the two the Yanks sign first, then grab the other one.

 

f*** the goddamn Yankees, for once and for all go out there and sign Kuroda. :thumbsup:

[RedSoxNC84]

f*** the goddamn Yankees' date=' for once and for all go out there and sign Kuroda. :thumbsup:[/quote']

 

While I share your enthusiasm, I think for the Sox to reach a deal thats optimal to them, they will probably have to let the Yankees sign someone so they will be out of the running.

[Spudboy]

If you happen to get to LA this year let me know about it. I live in Arcadia, about 17 miles from Los Angeles. It would be great to meet up with you and I would take you to Ernie's Taco House, a terrific Mexican Restaurant in Eagle Rock. Let me know.

 

And, yes, we better bring that Goddamn pitcher.

 

And when you come to Boston I would really enjoy meeting you as well. And guess what? Boston has several really, really good Mexican restaurants. One of them is within a ten minute walk from Fenway "Sol Azteca". My friend owns the joint.

[jung]

Oswalt appears to be at a point in his career where he will be tough to coax into the Sox price range i think. Not to say that Kuroda hasn't got a fair amount of milage on him. Oswalt is pushing for a 1 year deal but so far wants $10M. I doubt he will get it but I doubt he will fall far enough.

[Palodios]

Thank you Fred. The same; if you happen to to comedown to Monterrey, let me know, I'd take you to eat "Cabrito" (typical Monterrey dish) with tortillas (hand-made), salsa picante and cold beer.

 

BTW Some of My wife's family live in SD. They live in La Jolla. Very nice people. I love SD, beautiful city. We are planning to go to Napa. We are huge red wine fans. I'll let you know.

 

Party at iortiz's place?

[Palodios]

I said yesterday that I would not at all be surprised if the Sox had at that point the best offer in front of Kuroda and they are being nudged upward as a part of the process. I think Kuroda would have been gone by now if there is not a very active but subtle competition going on for his services with nobody coming in with that offer that completely seals the deal. I would bet that the possible suitors are offering incentive laden contracts and those could be difficult to parse one to the next if you are Kuroda and his agent. That said' date=' you would knock me over with a feather if there is not a legitimate offer from somebody in front of Kuroda right now. I will be very surprised if there is no announcement on Kuroda by Monday.[/quote']

 

Kuroda had annouced that he would make his decision "in a few days" a few days ago. I would not be surprised if he comes off the market today or tomorrow.

[SoxSport]

Btw SoxSport' date=' I think that the old Brando western One-Eyed Jacks was filmed in Cancun or somewhere else because in Monterrey we don't have sea. But yes, Mexico is a beautiful country; beautiful beaches, a lot of culture, great food, amazing history, a lot of natural resources, great people, beautiful women, etc. nothing else to ask...[/quote']

 

Sorry. The film location was Monterey, California. Monterey is a coastal town in central California with great views of the Pacific. Didn't realize there were two Monterreys--spelled differently.

[win red sox]

I don't believe depth signings are all we're going to see for the remainder of the offseason, I think they are trying to brew something up with Oswalt or Kuroda. Jackson in my opinion is far too expensive for what the Sox are looking for currently. I think they could get Oswalt on a reasonable one year deal, or possibly Kuroda on the same type of deal. After that, I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple more bullpen signings as well as the dumpster diver depth guys will be competing for the roles of who-gets-called-up-first-in-case-of-injury.

 

Basically I think they are trying to wait out the Yankees, see which one of the two the Yanks sign first, then grab the other one.

 

Keep a close eye on the Rangers/Darvish negoitiations, if that falls through I would assume they would sign Oswalt and the Yankess would then pursue Kuroda, which leaves out of the 2nd tier starters. No way we sign Jackson to multiyear contract.