2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[Palodios]

Why would Theo want Iglesias? He has Starlin Castro

 

If he knows more about what went on with the sex scandal, you never know.

[FredLynn]

Why would Theo want Iglesias? He has Starlin Castro

 

Besides that, Iglesias has shown zippo with the bat in AAA. Horrible, in fact. No way he has much trade value right now.

[Elktonnick]

Besides that' date=' Iglesias has shown zippo with the bat in AAA. Horrible, in fact. No way he has much trade value right now.[/quote']

 

Baseball America doesn't even list Iglesias in the top ten of Red Sox prospects.

[jacksonianmarch]

If he knows more about what went on with the sex scandal' date=' you never know.[/quote']

 

lets be honest here. Even if he tied the girl up and buttf***ed her for 3 days he's getting a walk or a slap on the wrist. That is what happens with these celebs

[a700hitter]

lets be honest here. Even if he tied the girl up and buttf***ed her for 3 days he's getting a walk or a slap on the wrist. That is what happens with these celebs

This would never happen with Iglesias, because he can't hit anything.

[SCM33]

Why would Theo want Iglesias? He has Starlin Castro

 

Theo doesnt want Iglesias.....he sucks.

 

Rey Ordonez, part 2.

[seabeachfred]

The 2004 team had zero injuries to her rotation and bullpen. Did the same happen to the 2011 team?

 

It's not so black and white. That's an incorrect analysis, plain and simple. You have to compare the teams on a neutral environment. Eliminating the subjective noise is what the "ultra advanced stats" are for.

 

UN, you and my pals Pumpsie and Elktonnick can banter about the relative comparisons of 2011 and 2004 and I will just take it all in despite my opinion on the matter. However, don't any of you try and compare either team with my 2007 team. Now that was a ball club; it led from the first week on and even though Francona did everything he could do to botch things up with his usual job of miserable field managing the team came through and won it all. To me that is the team you compare all modern Red Sox teams to.

[Spudboy]

I'm not talking about luck. Conditioning problems are something everyone have mentioned. It's beating a dead horse.

 

The reason why we're comparing both teams is because some posters here are seriously underestimating the talent of the 2011 team. The point of the comparison is showing how good the 2011 Red Sox really were, and how they could have "succeeded" with better conditioning and a couple of breaks going their way. Statistically (which is how you compare teams and players) the 2011 Sox were a lot better than people give them credit for, character problems or no.

The 2012 team will be very good as well. It is good as currently constructed. One starting pitcher and a couple of bullpen arms, and the Sox are as good as any team in the MLB.

 

The conclusion of all this being that the 2012 will contend, because it is loaded with talent, and because the correct steps were taken to correct the attitude problems for the team.

 

At least that's how i see my half-full glass.[/QUOTE]

 

You know, when you are not being a DICK, you make a whole lot of sense.

[Spudboy]

What I saw a guy was who couldn't go to his right very well. If he got the ball he didn't have the arm strength to gun it to first. Even on routine plays his weak arm was noticeable just barely getting most runners. One thing is indisputedable he is a year older.

 

You are aware that he played the entire year with a pinched nerve and a bulging disc in his neck aren't you? Yes, he is a year older.

[FredLynn]

I'm not talking about luck. Conditioning problems are something everyone have mentioned. It's beating a dead horse.

 

The reason why we're comparing both teams is because some posters here are seriously underestimating the talent of the 2011 team. The point of the comparison is showing how good the 2011 Red Sox really were, and how they could have "succeeded" with better conditioning and a couple of breaks going their way. Statistically (which is how you compare teams and players) the 2011 Sox were a lot better than people give them credit for, character problems or no.

The 2012 team will be very good as well. It is good as currently constructed. One starting pitcher and a couple of bullpen arms, and the Sox are as good as any team in the MLB.

 

The conclusion of all this being that the 2012 will contend, because it is loaded with talent, and because the correct steps were taken to correct the attitude problems for the team.

 

At least that's how i see my half-full glass.[/QUOTE]

 

You know, when you are not being a DICK, you make a whole lot of sense.

 

Yeah, except his analysis is faulty: we are not getting another good SP, and if we manage to get some good BP arms, that is going to be lucky because RP are a crapshoot. So we can sit and discuss the things that MIGHT BE, and thats fun to do, but as things ARE, we are not good enough to challenge the better teams (and there are 8 or 9 of them) for a ring.

[iortiz]

I'm not talking about luck. Conditioning problems are something everyone have mentioned. It's beating a dead horse.

 

The reason why we're comparing both teams is because some posters here are seriously underestimating the talent of the 2011 team. The point of the comparison is showing how good the 2011 Red Sox really were, and how they could have "succeeded" with better conditioning and a couple of breaks going their way. Statistically (which is how you compare teams and players) the 2011 Sox were a lot better than people give them credit for, character problems or no.

 

The 2012 team will be very good as well. It is good as currently constructed. One starting pitcher and a couple of bullpen arms, and the Sox are as good as any team in the MLB.

The conclusion of all this being that the 2012 will contend, because it is loaded with talent, and because the correct steps were taken to correct the attitude problems for the team.

 

At least that's how i see my half-full glass.

 

Totally agree, I've been saying that, BUT we need that this happens, otherwise we will be in jeopardy.

[iortiz]

Yeah, except his analysis is faulty: we are not getting another good SP, and if we manage to get some good BP arms, that is going to be lucky because RP are a crapshoot. So we can sit and discuss the things that MIGHT BE, and thats fun to do, but as things ARE, we are not good enough to challenge the better teams (and there are 8 or 9 of them) for a ring.

 

Sounds Crazy but Madson still available and Garza still a possibility.

[a700hitter]

You know, when you are not being a DICK, you make a whole lot of sense.

Let me know when he is dickless. Then I will take him off ignore.

[a700hitter]

Totally agree' date=' I've been saying that, BUT we need that this happens, otherwise we will be in jeopardy.[/quote']Exactly, none of us have disputed that we are a couple of very achievable moves away from being a very good team. However, as of today, the news is that even a slug like Saunders is out of the Sox price range. If Benny settles on Maholm, he'll be cutting the legs out from under this team from the start.

[a700hitter]

Sounds Crazy but Madson still available and Garza still a possibility.

Do you think they might be talking with Madson? Would they bring him in as a reliever or a starter?

[iortiz]

Do you think they might be talking with Madson? Would they bring him in as a reliever or a starter?

 

I don't want him as a Starter. I don't want another Bard case in our rotation. I want him as a closer.

 

My nice to have is:

 

Beckett

Lester

Buch

1. Garza/ 2. Jackson/ 3. Kuroda beyond the price vs years/trade implications

Bard

 

Madson

Bailey

Melancon

Aceves

Etc.

 

I know, I know it's a pipe dream. But with this pitching staff, even pumpsie would be very confident about next season.

[NativeBostonian]

Off-topic, but I was thinking, did we ever get compensation for Theo Epstein? I don't remember hearing anything about.

[NativeBostonian]

I don't want him as a Starter. I don't want another Bard case in our rotation. I want him as a closer.

 

My nice to have is:

 

Beckett

Lester

Buch

1. Garza/ 2. Jackson/ 3. Kuroda beyond the price vs years/trade implications

Bard

 

Madson

Bailey

Melancon

Aceves

Etc.

 

I know, I know it's a pipe dream. But with this pitching staff, even pumpsie would be very confident about next season.

I would much rather have Aceves as our 5th starter. He has proved that he can go for more then one inning last year. But, I am not the manager.

[iortiz]

I would much rather have Aceves as our 5th starter. He has proved that he can go for more then one inning last year. But' date=' I am not the manager. [/quote']

 

Bard is already a risk. Do you want another?. Or did you mean preferring Aceves as a starter over Bard?.

[VA Sox Fan]

Off-topic' date=' but I was thinking, did we ever get compensation for Theo Epstein? I don't remember hearing anything about.[/quote']

 

Not yet

[a700hitter]

I don't want him as a Starter. I don't want another Bard case in our rotation. I want him as a closer.

 

My nice to have is:

 

Beckett

Lester

Buch

1. Garza/ 2. Jackson/ 3. Kuroda beyond the price vs years/trade implications

Bard

 

Madson

Bailey

Melancon

Aceves

Etc.

 

I know, I know it's a pipe dream. But with this pitching staff, even pumpsie would be very confident about this team.

That's powerful, and my apologies to the FO defenders, but it is also affordable for the Red Sox. If they have a strong dominant team out of the box this season they will renew interest in this team. Combine the renewed interest with the lucrative 100 year anniversary promotions and the Sox should do very well financially in 2012 even if they blow the cap. I am harboring the hope that all this talk about cheap alternatives in the press is a clever misdirection play by the Sox FO to lower the expectations of the players agents. There is no reason that they need to act like a small market team. I realize that their expenses are out of control for 2012 thanks to Theo, but a lot of money will come off the payroll in 2013, plus the 100 year anniversary promotions should be lucrative. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet in the short term to maintain the value of the franchise. They have established a brand that has excellence as one of its hallmarks. That reputation of excellence is hanging in the balance just a bit after last season. They can spend a few extra buck and go steam rolling through the season as a powerhouse or they can go cheap and roll the dice that all of the "ifs" work out and there are no injuries. It's foolish to roll the dice for a few million when the reputation of a billion dollar enterprise is at stake.

[Station 13]

Anyone with ESPN insider want to post onley article on Bard joining the rotation?

[FredLynn]

I don't want him as a Starter. I don't want another Bard case in our rotation. I want him as a closer.

 

My nice to have is:

 

Beckett

Lester

Buch

1. Garza/ 2. Jackson/ 3. Kuroda beyond the price vs years/trade implications

Bard

 

Madson

Bailey

Melancon

Aceves

Etc.

 

I know, I know it's a pipe dream. But with this pitching staff, even pumpsie would be very confident about next season.

 

I would prefer my SP to be Lee, Halliday, Hernandez, Carpenter, and Sabathia.

Neither wish list is going to happen, but you are right: if it did, we would be in good shape.

[User Name]

You know' date=' when you are not being a DICK, you make a whole lot of sense.[/quote']

 

Hey, i'd be a lot less of a dick if certain posters like the "King" weren't such tools.

[User Name]

 

Yeah, except his analysis is faulty: we are not getting another good SP, and if we manage to get some good BP arms, that is going to be lucky because RP are a crapshoot. So we can sit and discuss the things that MIGHT BE, and thats fun to do, but as things ARE, we are not good enough to challenge the better teams (and there are 8 or 9 of them) for a ring.

 

Of course it's faulty for you, because you always see the absolutely worse possible scenario. You are consistent, i'll give you that.

[NativeBostonian]

Bard is already a risk. Do you want another?. Or did you mean preferring Aceves as a starter over Bard?.

 

no, I would take Aceves over Bard. I think Bard is more valuable where he was at then as a starter.

[jung]

I might have missed a move somewhere but last I knew the Sox had tapped both Aceves and Bard to start next season. Has that changed or is that where we are at this point?

[redsoxbeatz]

I like Garza but I would really like to see Edwin Jackson pitching for the Sox. I've seen him pitch including his no-hitter, and I like that guy. He's got good stuff.

[iortiz]

That's powerful' date=' and my apologies to the FO defenders, but it is also affordable for the Red Sox. If they have a strong dominant team out of the box this season they will renew interest in this team. Combine the renewed interest with the lucrative 100 year anniversary promotions and the Sox should do very well financially in 2012 even if they blow the cap. I am harboring the hope that all this talk about cheap alternatives in the press is a clever misdirection play by the Sox FO to lower the expectations of the players agents. There is no reason that they need to act like a small market team. I realize that their expenses are out of control for 2012 thanks to Theo, but a lot of money will come off the payroll in 2013, plus the 100 year anniversary promotions should be lucrative. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet in the short term to maintain the value of the franchise. They have established a brand that has excellence as one of its hallmarks. That reputation of excellence is hanging in the balance just a bit after last season. They can spend a few extra buck and go steam rolling through the season as a powerhouse or they can go cheap and roll the dice that all of the "ifs" work out and there are no injuries. It's foolish to roll the dice for a few million when the reputation of a billion dollar enterprise is at stake.[/quote']

 

1. We don't have to apologize with no body since we haven't made a final verdict. We only have discussed the scenarios and emitted an opinion about those scenarios (e.i going like this we are in a big predicament/jeopardy)

 

2. Yes, this is very affordable. Going like this (my nice to have) the interest about the team is other, no doubt. Hell, this team has wasted more money than this. (Cameron, Jenks, Lackey, etc.). The way I see the thing, we would have been saving cents and would have spent dollars (current roster)

 

3. If we fail in a 4year in a row this "established brand" and sold outs will be in jeopardy.

 

4.- Yes, It's foolish to roll the dice for a few million when the reputation of a billion dollar enterprise is at stake. We are running today as a 7-10 team seeded. It's not encouraging.

[iortiz]

I would prefer my SP to be Lee, Halliday, Hernandez, Carpenter, and Sabathia.

Neither wish list is going to happen, but you are right: if it did, we would be in good shape.

 

This pitching staff is affordable.