2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[iortiz]

You should ask the guy who actually wrote it:

 

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/12/13/2633672/boston-red-sox-top-20-prospects-for-2012

 

Well, as you said E1, seems that we are short in that department. The guy in the article says that the grades fluctuate specially in guys with B- and C+, so... Going to take a great effort to build the farm in that department.

[User Name]

You are right. I am not considering age at all but preparedness. Based on what they have done so far' date=' the Sox we know would very likely start them in the minors next year. I like you and I think User would like to see them come up to start the year. Fortunately, while I still have to credit you two guys for calling it early, I don't think the Sox will have a choice this time.[/quote']

 

I think their unwillingness to place young arms in the bullpen to finish their development has bit them in the ass a couple times.

 

It's the model that the Twins and Rays use for young starters and it's worked marvelously. Maybe the Red Sox should copy that model.

[iortiz]

and they are still calling some of us crazy.

 

 

I don't feel proud of that call and I'm sure you neither, but hell, our pitching was terrible.

 

Anyway, I hope we have learned from this and set a solid rotation and BP if we want to be serious contenders next year.

[a700hitter]

I think that's more faulty memory than fact a700. He had some inflamation issues last year' date=' but he's pitched more or less an average amount for someone his age and I haven't read about significant arm concerns anywhere. I could be wrong... do you have a source?[/quote']I might be remembering wrong, but I thought he got shut down a couple of times last season, and I thought he had some issues in 2010.

[example1]

If we include all three of Doubront, Wilson and Bowden, i would wager the bullpen looks like this at the end of the season:

 

Doubront

Albers

Wilson

Jenks

Melancon

Rhodes

Madson.

 

It's plausible the Sox sign both Rhodes and Madson, who they seem to be actively pursuing, with Bailey also a possibility.

 

The other reason I think Bowden will get a shot is that I believe he is out of options and on the 40 man roster... meaning he can't be sent up and down without clearing waivers first.

 

I have no problem with the above pen by the end of the season. I would also have no problem with them acquiring another SP, moving Bard back into the pen, and having Aceves as starting pitcher #5.

[jung]

I think their unwillingness to place young arms in the bullpen to finish their development has bit them in the ass a couple times.

 

It's the model that the Twins and Rays use for young starters and it's worked marvelously. Maybe the Red Sox should copy that model.

 

My God yes. You have no idea how frustrated I am with this one. Take it one step farther. Typically what happens is the guy ends up with some sort of an issue in that transition year when he was left in the minors and sure enough the Sox bite down hard on that and leave him there the whole year OR LONGER. Drives me absolutely nuts!

[example1]

I might be remembering wrong' date=' but I thought he got shut down a couple of times last season, and I thought he had some issues in 2010.[/quote']

 

I think last season he was just a fatass.

 

No, you're right because at the beginning of the year last season he had forearm issues, but I don't think it has been pervasive for him.

 

Long and short of it is that he is supposed to be healthy and was healthy at the end of the year last season.

[example1]

My God yes. You have no idea how frustrated I am with this one. Take it one step farther. Typically what happens is the guy ends up with some sort of an issue in that transition year when he was left in the minors and sure enough the Sox bite down hard on that and leave him there the whole year OR LONGER. Drives me absolutely nuts!

 

Can't say I disagree with this.

 

It would benefit the Sox to realize that not all of their SP prospects need the soft treatment that their legitimate ace-caliber prospects (Lester and Buchholz) benefited from. Bowden, Doubront, Wilson, Britton (in a few years), Pimentel (in a few years), maybe even Ranaudo could all benefit from that.

 

Perhaps that's where Bard would be a new model for that approach.

[a700hitter]

The other reason I think Bowden will get a shot is that I believe he is out of options and on the 40 man roster... meaning he can't be sent up and down without clearing waivers first.

 

I have no problem with the above pen by the end of the season. I would also have no problem with them acquiring another SP, moving Bard back into the pen, and having Aceves as starting pitcher #5.

Can we really place a lot of faith in Jenks making a big contribution? If he decides that he still wants to make a living throwing a baseball and comes to camp under 500 lbs, he could be a big part of the pen, but I have to view that as a hope more than an expectation.

[example1]

Can we really place a lot of faith in Jenks making a big contribution? If he decides that he still wants to make a living throwing a baseball and comes to camp under 500 lbs' date=' he could be a big part of the pen, but I have to view that as a hope more than an expectation.[/quote']

 

I agree. I think that talk about relying on him for anything substantial was just posturing to agents who expected the Sox to part with 8 figured for mediocre but established relievers.

 

Jenks upside is as a good setup man, his downside is as an injured couch potato.

[a700hitter]

I think last season he was just a fatass.

 

No, you're right because at the beginning of the year last season he had forearm issues, but I don't think it has been pervasive for him.

 

Long and short of it is that he is supposed to be healthy and was healthy at the end of the year last season.

I thought he had a back or shoulder issue during the season too.

[User Name]

Can't say I disagree with this.

 

It would benefit the Sox to realize that not all of their SP prospects need the soft treatment that their legitimate ace-caliber prospects (Lester and Buchholz) benefited from. Bowden, Doubront, Wilson, Britton (in a few years), Pimentel (in a few years), maybe even Ranaudo could all benefit from that.

 

Perhaps that's where Bard would be a new model for that approach.

 

Don't count Pimentel out for next year if he can start throwing his breaking ball for strikes.

[iortiz]

Can we really place a lot of faith in Jenks making a big contribution? If he decides that he still wants to make a living throwing a baseball and comes to camp under 500 lbs' date=' he could be a big part of the pen, but I have to view that as a hope more than an expectation.[/quote']

 

Honestly, I don't see anything left in that tank.

 

We need at least 2 BP arms and a solid SP.

 

... Almost forget and depth, I don't like Miller at all.

[example1]

Don't count Pimentel out for next year if he can start throwing his breaking ball for strikes.

 

That's the thing. Between Pimentel, Britton, Ranaudo and Barnes the Sox have at least 4 pitchers in the early 20s who have top of the rotation stuff. Unfortunately, 3 of them had letdown seasons in 2011. That happens pretty regularly with prospects, and doesn't mean they are washed up.

 

As for next year, Stolmey is still only 21 and only has 50 IP at the AA level. I'd be surprised if he got a shot before guys like Tazawa.

[a700hitter]

That's the thing. Between Pimentel, Britton, Ranaudo and Barnes the Sox have at least 4 pitchers in the early 20s who have top of the rotation stuff. Unfortunately, 3 of them had letdown seasons in 2011. That happens pretty regularly with prospects, and doesn't mean they are washed up.

 

As for next year, Stolmey is still only 21 and only has 50 IP at the AA level. I'd be surprised if he got a shot before guys like Tazawa.

Tazawa can't have many shots left. It's do or die for him in the next 2 seasons.

[example1]

Honestly, I don't see anything left in that tank.

 

We need at least 2 BP arms and a solid SP.

 

... Almost forget and depth, I don't like Miller at all.

 

I don't know what kind of "depth" people expect a team to be able to get for the bullpen? Who are these supposedly good pitchers who are happy to sit at AAA waiting their turn? Those seem more dependent on wise moves during the season and the ascention of pitchers from the farm (Doubront, Wilson, Tazawa, Bowden).

[example1]

Tazawa can't have many shots left. It's do or die for him in the next 2 seasons.

 

That sounds about right. Of course, he had TJ surgery didn't he, and he only came back last year? They will give him a chance to show what he can do. It seems like they think his arm is pretty live.

[iortiz]

I don't know what kind of "depth" people expect a team to be able to get for the bullpen? Who are these supposedly good pitchers who are happy to sit at AAA waiting their turn? Those seem more dependent on wise moves during the season and the ascention of pitchers from the farm (Doubront' date=' Wilson, Tazawa, Bowden).[/quote']

 

Who would you suggest to start if one the top 3 goes to the DL, let's say for a month.

 

Doubront?, Wilson? Who?

[User Name]

Hard to say with an incomplete roster.

[iortiz]

Tazawa can't have many shots left. It's do or die for him in the next 2 seasons.

 

It sounded like in old Rome when they used to send gladiators to combat the beasts

[Emmz]

It sounded like in old Rome when they used to send gladiators to combat the beasts

 

*Gives a Julius Caesar thumbs down*

[iortiz]

*Gives a Julius Caesar thumbs down*

 

Exactly

[iortiz]

Charting Mark Melancon's 38 curve balls that resulted in strikeouts.

 

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/1214/bos_melancon_heat_chart_b1_300.jpg

[iortiz]

Highest Percentage of Curveballs Thrown in 2-Strike Counts (2011)

Name/Pct

Jose Veras, Pirates /71.5

Daniel Schlereth, Tigers /67.0

Brett Anderson, A's /59.1

A.J. Burnett, Yankees /52.5

Mark Melancon, Astros /50.7

[iortiz]

Fastest Average Fastball (2011)

MPH

Henry Rodriguez, Nationals 97.9

Aroldis Chapman, Reds 97.8

Jordan Walden, Angels 97.5

Daniel Bard, Red Sox 97.2

Bobby Parnell, Mets 97.1

[a700hitter]

That sounds about right. Of course' date=' he had TJ surgery didn't he, and he only came back last year? They will give him a chance to show what he can do. It seems like they think his arm is pretty live.[/quote']Before the injury, Tazawa had pretty good command of his pitches. He has potential, but with regard to him we can only wish. We can't expect anything from him.

[Bellhorn04]

Can we really place a lot of faith in Jenks making a big contribution? If he decides that he still wants to make a living throwing a baseball and comes to camp under 500 lbs' date=' he could be a big part of the pen, but I have to view that as a hope more than an expectation.[/quote']

 

Good sarcasm.

[Elktonnick]

That's good for you. I don't. I do love the game very much but don't need to get my info that way. If it works for you' date=' good. I prefer watching as many of the 162 games I can to see what actually happens. Never have been into predictions, speculations and second guessing. Let's see what happens in 2012. One season at a time.[/quote']

 

Can't watch any games during the hot stove. Second guessing, speculation and predictions may not work for you which is okay but don't begrudge others that right. Baseball fans in general and Red Sox fans in particular have been doing that for generations. The MLB network sports talk radio wouldn't exist without it.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Before the injury' date=' Tazawa had pretty good command of his pitches. He has potential, but with regard to him[b'] we can only wish. We can't expect anything from him.[/b]

 

This is exactly how I feel about almost our entire bullpen.

 

Jenks - Injured and fat. We can hope he returns to form during a contract year, but I have zero expectations.

 

Doubront - Injured last year, got torched a few outings as well. Big step backwards in my book from 2010. Hope he can gain his stuff back, but I'm not expecting anything.

 

Tazawa - See your comments.

 

Morales - When he throws strikes, he's a top 3 left handed reliever in the entire game. Throws hard, and his stuff is filthy. He just lacks consistent control. Hope, not expect.

 

Albers - Brilliant in the first 3/4 of the season, but then he got absolutely pummeled. Which Albers was the real Albers, and which was just an aberration? Judging by his history, I think we got 3/4 of a year of aberration. Again, hope he's that good, but I am not naive enough to expect it.

 

Melancon - I guess we can expect him to have at least moderate success pitching in the AL East. If he throws to a 3.3-3.5 ERA, that's about what I'd expect. Not elite, but he'll get the job done.

 

So basically, our bullpen is full of "If they pitch like they did during the ______ season, they'll be great, but if they pitch like they have recently, it's going to be a tough year."

[VA Sox Fan]

And you called me old for taking a short nap. Jeez' date=' it's 9:30. [/quote']

 

I was logging off, not going to bed. My alarm goes off at 5:30am:( Love my sleep! :thumbsup: