2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[User Name]

He should be ready for 2012. The Sox need to step up their conditioning program so that fat-asses like Jenks get their s*** straightened out.

[jung]

If Ortiz does come back I think that he will not only have to take a pay cut but will have to be less demanding about platooning. The Sox need to ween themselves off of this dedicated DH ********. Ortiz will hopefully be the last one. As a part of that process, they can't pay him much and he will have to be satisfied with the Sox inserting him when it best suits them. He should still get many appearances as DH at least for the 2012 season. But this has gotten to be more trouble than it is worth particularly given Sox performance in the inter-league games. It would not matter if they did not count in the record but they do and the Sox progressively have more and more difficulty winning in those games.

[WhiskeyBreath]

It's not up to the team to step up their program. It's up to the individual players to take pride in what they do and get into shape.

[User Name]

I disagree. Teams like the Cardinals have a tough-ass pitching coach in Duncan who has them on a short leash to keep them in shape. The approach you mention was the one used last year and blew up in their faces. That's just the way i see it though.

[jung]

Dave Duncan is really hard nosed but you end up having to look at the contract mix on any given team as well to get some feeling for how many guys are making large money long term (least likely to control), large money but not long term (marginally controllable), short money short term (very controllable). Don't have to look to hard at the Cards salary mix to see that they have not allowed that mix to get out of balance. They have maintained a nice mix and are heavy in categories 2 and 3. Unfortunately the Sox have let that mix get out of whack and that is what for the most part creates some issues with players and whether a hard nosed guy can have an impact.

[Palodios]

It's not up to the team to step up their program. It's up to the individual players to take pride in what they do and get into shape.

 

Have you never slacked off at work before?

[MANNYHOF24]

Have you never slacked off at work before?

 

I am right now!

[Dojji]

Have you never slacked off at work before?

 

Not recently. You have to have a job for that.

 

If I was getting paid what these men are paid, and had the kind of incentives to succeed that they have, I'd like to flatter myself that I'd be able to keep my priorities straight.

[SoxSport]

If Ortiz does come back I think that he will not only have to take a pay cut but will have to be less demanding about platooning. The Sox need to ween themselves off of this dedicated DH ********. Ortiz will hopefully be the last one. As a part of that process' date=' they can't pay him much and he will have to be satisfied with the Sox inserting him when it best suits them. He should still get many appearances as DH at least for the 2012 season. But this has gotten to be more trouble than it is worth particularly given Sox performance in the inter-league games. It would not matter if they did not count in the record but they do and the Sox progressively have more and more difficulty winning in those games.[/quote']

 

They're just waiting for somebody else to offer him more than they're willing to pay.

That's an easy way out for them. He's where VGuerrero was last year. Ageing, and coming off a good season. Don't press your luck.

The way the upper management handled Tito and Theo, they will look for the easy way out.

 

What they do about Ortiz and Pap will say a lot.

[mvp 78]

Guerrero was signed for cheap money. If the Sox can do the same with Ortiz, they should go for it.

[a700hitter]

Have you never slacked off at work before?

One of the truisms of business is that employers pay their employees the least that they can to retain the employees leaving and employees do only as much work as is necessary not to get fired.

[SoxSport]

Guerrero was signed for cheap money. If the Sox can do the same with Ortiz' date=' they should go for it.[/quote']

 

You mean the Orioles? Vlad had a bad year in Baltimore. The danger of signing an ageing player off the good year he had in Texas. The Rangers were pretty smart, not signing him. Looks like they're going to win it all.

[SoxSport]

Not recently. You have to have a job for that.

 

If I was getting paid what these men are paid, and had the kind of incentives to succeed that they have, I'd like to flatter myself that I'd be able to keep my priorities straight.

 

They do well in contract years, because they bust their tails and have a huge incentive.

 

But when they get their guaranteed multi-million dollar contracts, where's the incentive?

After a few years, they have more money than they'll ever spend. Human nature.

[jung]

The danger of signing an ageing player off the good year he had in Texas. The Rangers were pretty smart, not signing him. Looks like they're going to win it all.

 

Gotta' hand it to Rangers particularly if it ends like this tonight. They have done a good many things right.

 

Ryan has a really good perspective it seems to me. He has been a great pitcher but he seems to realize that his kind of arm is pretty rare so he does not really try to see pitchers through himself. He was an aging star so he seems to have a very very realistic view of what they are worth and the realities of keeping them vs cutting them away. Gotta tip my hat to him.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Rangers best years are ahead too. They'll let Wilson walk, but Holland and Harrison are future studs, Lewis is a good pitcher and Ogando looks like he'll be a stud once his arm strength picks up. Hell, they might move Feliz into the rotation next yr too.

 

I listened to the Cherington interview and he says the sox have a solid #1, #2, and #3 in their rotation. Sounds like he's gonna be picking from the middle to the bottom of the FA pile to fill in the rotation. With Lackey out, there goes a body who fit into the rotation, so 2 pitchers are needed. If you move Aceves into the rotation, you lose a huge role in the pen. I dont expect more big money signing in the pen aside from a closer (be it Paps or someone else) so IMO, the sox are looking to see their guys rebound from down/injured years. Dont expect a big ticket FA being inserted into middle relief or into the rotation

[SoxSport]

Gotta' hand it to Rangers particularly if it ends like this tonight. They have done a good many things right.

 

Ryan has a really good perspective it seems to me. He has been a great pitcher but he seems to realize that his kind of arm is pretty rare so he does not really try to see pitchers through himself. He was an aging star so he seems to have a very very realistic view of what they are worth and the realities of keeping them vs cutting them away. Gotta tip my hat to him.

 

The Cards pulled it out last night, but you still have to applaud Ryan--win or lose. He's probably exec of the year. The Cards are a gritty team, and you want LaRussa in your dugout for these type of games. This is a great World Series--both teams should win.

[Palodios]

Now here is a crazy idea. What about trading for Chipper Jones to 3B/DH with Youk? Both guys can field the position, but both are getting to points in their careers where they absolutely need the rest. His leadership abilities would be clutch in that clubhouse, and I've heard rumors the Braves wanted to move on from him.

[User Name]

Now here is a crazy idea. What about trading for Chipper Jones to 3B/DH with Youk? Both guys can field the position' date=' but both are getting to points in their careers where they absolutely need the rest. His leadership abilities would be clutch in that clubhouse, and I've heard rumors the Braves wanted to move on from him.[/quote']

 

It is a crazy thought, both because of his cost, his fragility and his diminished abilities.

 

Also, how would he be "clutch" in the clubhouse? Not meant as a slight, just want to hear your rationale as to how it would affect the team.

[WhiskeyBreath]

My off-season wish list:

 

Re-sign Papelbon

Move Bard into the rotation (Aceves would be another option but he's very valuable in his relief role)

Dump Tek

Dump Wake

Explore trade options for Beckett

Bring back Ortiz for 1 year (if he doesn't like it, let him walk and take the picks)

Move Youk to DH and let him be the backup for CI (also, explore his trade value on the market)

Unlikely to happen but I would like them to try and land a LEGIT Ace in MLB. I would move Ellsbury to land someone like that

[commenter]

My off-season wish list:

 

Re-sign Papelbon

Move Bard into the rotation (Aceves would be another option but he's very valuable in his relief role)

Dump Tek

Dump Wake

Explore trade options for Beckett

Bring back Ortiz for 1 year (if he doesn't like it, let him walk and take the picks)

Move Youk to DH and let him be the backup for CI (also, explore his trade value on the market)

Unlikely to happen but I would like them to try and land a LEGIT Ace in MLB. I would move Ellsbury to land someone like that

 

I pretty much agree with everything you said. Except for maybe the Ortiz part. I want them to let him walk. They need to move on from their over reliance on the DH.

 

I think they need to stop relying so much on outside help and stop signing so many free agents. They are overly relying on them & that's not how you win. You need to build from within. If they can get some good prospects that are close to being major league ready, especially pitching prospects, then they should do it. I think their minor league system is overrated and while they have a few good prospects (Lavarnway, Middlebrooks) they have a lot of question marks -- especially with some of their pitching prospects bad seasons last year where they regressed. Plus they are no where near ready for the next couple years.

 

If they trade Beckett (which it sounds like from all their comments, they aren't going to do, but that's just speculation on my part) & pay some of his salary, or a good part of it, then they could get a few good major league prospects. I mean he has 3 more years on his contract and he's still a top of the rotation pitcher (even I think he's overrated). If Adrian Gonzalez nets 3 top prospects & he only had 1 year left, Beckett should be able to get some good prospects, especially with lack of good starting pitchers in free agency this year.

 

Right now, they need a right handed bat but don't have one ready. They need a right fielder, but Kalish was injured all last year & Reddick is more of a 4th outfielder (in my opinion). Plus they are both left handed in an already left handed heavy line up. They need to look at 3rd base but Middlebrooks isn't ready. They have 2 pitching spots & no one to fill them unless they hurt their bullpen. Their bullpen also needs a lot of help.

 

So what are they going to do? Spend more money & give another 3 year or more deal to a right handed bat who winds up breaking down? Get even older then they already are? Trade away the rest of their minor league system for some sub-par pitcher that can't pitch in the AL East? No thank you.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

My off-season wish list:

 

Re-sign Papelbon

Move Bard into the rotation (Aceves would be another option but he's very valuable in his relief role)

Dump Tek

Dump Wake

Explore trade options for Beckett

Bring back Ortiz for 1 year (if he doesn't like it, let him walk and take the picks)

Move Youk to DH and let him be the backup for CI (also, explore his trade value on the market)

Unlikely to happen but I would like them to try and land a LEGIT Ace in MLB. I would move Ellsbury to land someone like that

 

Not bad. Bard is a great pitcher and many have suggested moving him to the rotation but I'm not a fan of that move. I like the idea of moving Youk to DH(if Papi leaves obviously) but who do we get for 3B? I don't know whether Ellsbury had a fluke season based on the numbers before that or not but I'm kind of 50/50 trading him for a pitcher.

[User Name]

My off-season wish list:

 

Re-sign Papelbon

Move Bard into the rotation (Aceves would be another option but he's very valuable in his relief role)

Dump Tek

Dump Wake

Explore trade options for Beckett

Bring back Ortiz for 1 year (if he doesn't like it, let him walk and take the picks)

Move Youk to DH and let him be the backup for CI (also, explore his trade value on the market)

Unlikely to happen but I would like them to try and land a LEGIT Ace in MLB. I would move Ellsbury to land someone like that

 

Bard was brutal as a starter in the minors, and i don't see what would indicate that his stuff would translate well to starting or his stamina would be enough to become a good starter. I obviously don't know about his conditions as much as the organization, and they've floated the idea around, but why not go for the sure thing with Aceves, who has started before?

 

Also, we need more pitching, we don't need to trade one of the effective SPs we have. Everything else, i agree with.

[User Name]

Not bad. Bard is a great pitcher and many have suggested moving him to the rotation but I'm not a fan of that move. I like the idea of moving Youk to DH(if Papi leaves obviously) but who do we get for 3B? I don't know whether Ellsbury had a fluke season based on the numbers before that or not but I'm kind of 50/50 trading him for a pitcher.

 

Aramis Ramirez sounds nice.

[seabeachfred]

Interesting suggestions I'm reading about concerning the Red Sox retooling for next year with one glaring exception-----those calling for signing or trading for another left handed hitter. Friends, we need another RH hitter, in fact, we could use two. Ellsbury, Crawford, Gonzales, and Satalamacchia hit from the left side and though Salty is a switch hitter he is much much better from the left side.

 

Mike Cuddyer would be ideal, and, frankly, I would let Ortiz walk and put Lavarnway at DH. I think offensively he is ready, and with him at DH we could actually have three people who could catch if we add a second catcher not named Varitek. We all know how it works. RH hitters hit RH pitchers much better than LH hitters hit LH pitchers. It does surprise me, though, just how inept so many lefties are against southpaws. And then, of course, we need to concentrate on job No. 1----Pitching, both starters and relievers. Well, it should get interesting from here on in.

[example1]

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20111102&content_id=25866110&vkey=pr_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos

 

Ellsbury, pedroia and Gonzalez win gold gloves. Well deserved. Also three of the best offensive threats in the game. A nice nucleus to build around for sure.

[mvp 78]

Aramis Ramirez sounds nice.

 

Didn't the Cubs pick up his option?

[User Name]

Didn't the Cubs pick up his option?

 

It was mutual, and he declined his part of the option, becoming a FA.

[seabeachfred]

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20111102&content_id=25866110&vkey=pr_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos

 

Ellsbury, pedroia and Gonzalez win gold gloves. Well deserved. Also three of the best offensive threats in the game. A nice nucleus to build around for sure.

 

You could say that again EX. If we could get Youk and Crawford back to their normal hitting prowess we could have the best fivesome in baseball. That is why I think our hitting should be fine next year if we could just get a RH hitting outfielder like Mike Cuddyer. I feel Lavarnway could fit into the DH role fine. The guy can flat out hit and he get better the higher he goes in classification, a rarity except for the very best prospects. But no matter how we slice it we need another qualithy starter and two more solid relievers. Those four types are out there either FA or the trade market and Cherington has to see to it that we are ready to compete from the first game on, not the 13th.

 

Great news, though, about Pedroia, Ellsbury and Gonzales, and I love to hear good Red Sox news.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[WhiskeyBreath]

http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20111102&content_id=25866110&vkey=pr_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos

 

Ellsbury, pedroia and Gonzalez win gold gloves. Well deserved. Also three of the best offensive threats in the game. A nice nucleus to build around for sure.

 

Ellsbury is outta here after he is out from under team control imo.

[jung]

Ellsbury is outta here after he is out from under team control imo.

 

I don't believe Ells wants to be here past his current contract obligations.