Sox sign Crawford

[example1]

I see the absurdity of this contract. However, it could also be a great move for Boston.

 

I think they overpaid. Most people do. However, for the wins he will probably get, and the wins they prevent from going to LAA, TX or NY it could be a move that puts them over the top with regard to the playoffs for the duration of Gonzalez and Crawford's contracts.

 

If the Yankees don't get Lee they could be looking up at the Sox for a long time. Even if they do I'm not convinced they are as good as the Sox.

 

At times it is worth it to pay over value to get the assured 5-6 wins that will put your team in the playoffs, where you get additional home games and increased national and international interest. I'm certainly not going to complain about the move. At the least, Crawford might under perform the value of his contract a bit while also putting the team in the playoffs year after year.

 

In that scenario, he may be worth closer to $15m while being paid $21m, and he could put the team in the playoffs. Would the Sox FO be willing to pay that $5-6m for a near assured shot at a WS every year? Apparently they would, and I don't blame them for it.

[example1]

Memo to Angels and Rangers: Sign Cliff Lee!

 

That way i can have my keg party with my strippers, my foam machine and my jello shots.

 

The team that signs Lee between those two is favorites for the AL West spot for a few years, IMO.

 

Entirely important for both of them, and the Yankees. I love it.

 

 

In my previous post I convinced myself of the validity of this move. It all makes sense to me now.

[SCM33]

I see the absurdity of this contract. However, it could also be a great move for Boston.

 

I think they overpaid. Most people do. However, for the wins he will probably get, and the wins they prevent from going to LAA, TX or NY it could be a move that puts them over the top with regard to the playoffs for the duration of Gonzalez and Crawford's contracts

 

They signed one of the best available corner OF's available this season and most likely next year. JD Drew comes off the book next year.

 

At first I thought it was TERRIBLE. Now that Ive taken a step back and looked at it, it much actually not be so bad.

 

Werth was still a worse deal IMO.

[Dipre]

Who says we have limits? John Henry has been sitting on a goldmine for years with this club. It's about time he spends some money to make them better.

 

As a fan, I really don't give a f*** how much money it takes to sign these guys. Especially considering the kind of money the Sox make every year off me and countless other fans. Just get it done and field a legit WS contender.

 

Your logic is faulty.

 

Baseball is a business. There is no "no limits". That is nonsense. Even the Yankees have their limits, but they're expanded far more than the other team.

 

The Red Sox have their limits, and they operate within a budget, saying otherwise is ignorant.

[example1]

They signed one of the best available corner OF's available this season and most likely next year. JD Drew comes off the book next year.

 

At first I thought it was TERRIBLE. Now that Ive taken a step back and looked at it, it much actually not be so bad.

 

Werth was still a worse deal IMO.

 

With this FO, more often than not I think it is beneficial to take a step back.

 

Instead of screaming "WHYYYY!" it makes more sense to try to figure out why. I think he puts them into the playoffs and hurts their closest yearly competition (NY, ANA, TX, TB ).

 

It is well known that playoff teams make a lot more money, both because of the games they play and because of the interest it generates, which carries over to the following season in terms of ratings, public interest, tickets (home/away), etc.,

 

I bet it is a net-win $$-wise for the franchise, even if Crawford himself is overpaid relative to other similar OFs.

[italstallianion]

It does because Jeter's is a known entity. There is no getting around how stupid the Yanks are for giving him that kind of coin.

 

We won't know if Crawford's contract is a bad one until we've seen him play over the course of multiple seasons. Risking $20 million a season on him is a much better proposition than giving a 36 year old Jeter $17 million a season.

 

 

 

No. It. Doesn't. Crawford's deal is good or bad based on his own merits/age/teamplan etc. Jeter's deal may be bad in it's own right, but only the stupid would look at that deal and "feel better" about Crawford's deal.

 

In other words, whether or not Jeter's deal is bad does not change whether or not Crawford's deal is bad. It's like having 2 fat chicks in a room arguing at one other because one of the fat chicks called the other fat chick fat. Whether or not the first fat chick is fat doesn't change that the 2nd fat chick is fat, and thus the first fat chick is right in saying that the 2nd fat chick is fat, however hypocritical (and mean) it'd be.

[a700hitter]

What does this mean for Ellsbury?

 

There is no way they begin the season with 3 LH bats in the OF and 1 LH bat at 1B and DH.

 

Carlos Beltran, Im telling you, thats the next brick to drop.

 

Last year AGon hit lefties better than righties. Cameron will get plenty of AB's against LH pitching filling in for Drew, Ellsbury and Crawford.

[example1]

A few weeks ago how disappointed would we have been for the Sox to get Crawford at 140/7? Probably not too disappointed. We would have understood that that is the price of a genuine impact player on both sides of the ball and the best available FA.

 

To me it feels like an emotional overkill, like I wasn't over the whole Gonzalez signing and so it doesn't quite feel as sweet as it could.

 

However, a few weeks ago I would have said they should sign Crawford for 2011 and then sign Adrian Gonzalez before 2012.

 

Instead, they traded some prospects and paid 6m to make it happen a season earlier. I can't complain. Not at all.

[MNSoxChief102]

Your logic is faulty.

 

Baseball is a business. There is no "no limits". That is nonsense. Even the Yankees have their limits, but they're expanded far more than the other team.

 

The Red Sox have their limits, and they operate within a budget, saying otherwise is ignorant.

 

You're reading too far into what I wrote. Obviously there are "limits" to what we can do as a franchise. Where I disagree is that the Sox "limit" is significantly different than that of the Yankees.

 

For years, we've listened to the incessant droning about the Yankees being the Evil Empire and the Sox being the Little Engine That Could. I've never bought into any of that ********. The Sox have always had the money to do pretty much whatever they want in free agency.... they've just chosen not to necessarily go that route in recent years to build a winner. But that ship has sailed. We had to improve in a big way this off-season, and so far the Sox have exceeded expectations in every way possible.

[example1]

No. It. Doesn't. Crawford's deal is good or bad based on his own merits/age/teamplan etc.

 

Crawford's deal will be good or bad depending on the success the team has. LIke Jeter's overpriced 10 year contract, if Crawford wins multiple WS and makes the team a favorite year after year, the money will be less important than the personality and the overall consistency with which he produces.

[a700hitter]

I see the absurdity of this contract. However, it could also be a great move for Boston.

 

I think they overpaid. Most people do. However, for the wins he will probably get, and the wins they prevent from going to LAA, TX or NY it could be a move that puts them over the top with regard to the playoffs for the duration of Gonzalez and Crawford's contracts.

 

If the Yankees don't get Lee they could be looking up at the Sox for a long time. Even if they do I'm not convinced they are as good as the Sox.

 

At times it is worth it to pay over value to get the assured 5-6 wins that will put your team in the playoffs, where you get additional home games and increased national and international interest. I'm certainly not going to complain about the move. At the least, Crawford might under perform the value of his contract a bit while also putting the team in the playoffs year after year.

 

In that scenario, he may be worth closer to $15m while being paid $21m, and he could put the team in the playoffs. Would the Sox FO be willing to pay that $5-6m for a near assured shot at a WS every year? Apparently they would, and I don't blame them for it.

E1, why are you hating on Theo?

 

Sorry, but I deserve to have some fun after almost everyone told me that I was insane for thinking this deal was a possibility.

[hornedfrog1985]

I've always said that on the whole the FO does an excellent job. I also said after the miserable end of last season that I expected bold things from the FO this off season. AGon was great' date=' and that was enough for many, but I felt that there was another shoe to drop. I preferred Crawford over Lee, but if they wanted to close the gap on the Yanks, one of those moves had to be made. If the Yanks landed them both we'd be playing for second place.[b'] It will be fun to watch Crawford and Ellsbury run down balls in the gap and play running bases with old man Posada. It should be a lot of fun[/b].

 

And let this be a reminder to all of you:

 

A700 is almost always right.

 

(except in certain rare circumstances)

 

:lol::lol:

 

Are they playing stick ball on the weekends? Hope they can outrun a 21 year olds cannon because that's how old the starting catcher will be.

[GWSoxFan]

I think this is a ridiculous overpay, but I am ridiculously happy about it. This move has John Henry written all over it. I think as soon as the World Series was over in 2009 he was kicking himself for not shelling out more money for Mark Teixeira and promised himself it would never happen again.

[MNSoxChief102]

No. It. Doesn't. Crawford's deal is good or bad based on his own merits/age/teamplan etc. Jeter's deal may be bad in it's own right, but only the stupid would look at that deal and "feel better" about Crawford's deal.

 

In other words, whether or not Jeter's deal is bad does not change whether or not Crawford's deal is bad. It's like having 2 fat chicks in a room arguing at one other because one of the fat chicks called the other fat chick fat. Whether or not the first fat chick is fat doesn't change that the 2nd fat chick is fat, and thus the first fat chick is right in saying that the 2nd fat chick is fat, however hypocritical (and mean) it'd be.

 

Perhaps the comparison isn't the greatest. I'll concede that. The point still stands though that if you have to risk your money on a player, going with a guy like Crawford makes way more sense than it does to go with Jeter, who's clearly on the downslope of his career.

 

In any case, arguing the contract is stupid, from a fan's perspective anyway. All that any fan should give a s*** about is whether their team is doing everything they can to field a legitimate WS contender. The Sox are clearly doing that.

[Keeper]

To me, this means a couple players days in Boston are numbered.

 

I think Lowrie, Ellsbury and Kalish all have the chance to be part of a deal for Beltran now.

 

That would be a horrible trade for the Sox. Beltran's days are numbered. He may even be damaged goods. If you're going to trade those players (who are all young) for an OF, go after Upton.

 

Like everyone else, I'm psyched the Sox got Crawford but not so psyched about the contract. Exciting player. This really took me by surprise.

[a700hitter]

Where's that bottle of Grey Goose? I need that. Please post it again.

 

Alright, enough dissecting of this move. It was a great move, and I told you why days ago. Theo agreed. Check my posts on Crawford and it will be crystal clear. Now, it's time to build a bullpen. Let's turn our attention to that.

 

Where's ORS? I'm so happy that I want to give him a big cyber hug.

[example1]

they've just chosen not to necessarily go that route in recent years to build a winner. But that ship has sailed. We had to improve in a big way this off-season' date=' and so far the Sox have exceeded expectations in every way possible.[/quote']

 

They chose not to spend it stupidly. It wasn't about not wanting to win, it was about spending it on guys this-side of 30 who have more than one or two tools. I would have hand-picked Gonzalez and Crawford as two of the best to spend it on...

 

As Jim Bowden said on Twitter:

 

"Theo Epstein one of the best in the gme in terms of discipline in years committed , he pick the right two players to deviate from his norm."

[Dipre]

You're reading too far into what I wrote. Obviously there are "limits" to what we can do as a franchise. Where I disagree is that the Sox "limit" is significantly different than that of the Yankees.

 

For years, we've listened to the incessant droning about the Yankees being the Evil Empire and the Sox being the Little Engine That Could. I've never bought into any of that ********. The Sox have always had the money to do pretty much whatever they want in free agency.... they've just chosen not to necessarily go that route in recent years to build a winner. But that ship has sailed. We had to improve in a big way this off-season, and so far the Sox have exceeded expectations in every way possible.

 

That's because (and i don't mean this as an insult) you don't understand the way economics work apparently.

 

Baseball is a business, and businesses operate on a profit margin.

 

If you go and check the income/ expenditures of the teams with the top ten records in baseball last year (and the Mets) you'll notice they all operated with roughly a 30% profit when you compare how much money the teams generate and how much they spend on the teams.

 

This "have as much money to do whatever they want in Free Agency" stuff is nonsense. They have an ownership group that wants to make money and win at the same time, but that also creates a line where a specific limit will be put on the money spent.

 

Even more interesting, even though the Red Sox aren't the most profitable franchise (they're actually third behind both New York teams) they spend like the second most profitable and operate right around the same profit margin of the Yankees.

[example1]

Where's ORS? I'm so happy that I want to give him a big cyber hug.

 

C'mon man, it's the middle of the night where you are and your old buddy E1 is here. Nothin' for me?

[a700hitter]

Are they playing stick ball on the weekends? Hope they can outrun a 21 year olds cannon because that's how old the starting catcher will be.

Delusional.

[italstallianion]

Perhaps the comparison isn't the greatest. I'll concede that. The point still stands though that if you have to risk your money on a player' date=' going with a guy like Crawford makes way more sense than it does to go with Jeter, who's clearly on the downslope of his career.[/b']

In any case, arguing the contract is stupid, from a fan's perspective anyway. All that any fan should give a s*** about is whether their team is doing everything they can to field a legitimate WS contender. The Sox are clearly doing that.

 

 

 

Of course, I agree that the Crawford deal is better than the Jeter deal. What I'm saying is that Jeter's deal does NOT justify Crawford's deal, or make the Crawford deal acceptable if Crawford fails.

[GWSoxFan]

To me, this means a couple players days in Boston are numbered.

 

I think Lowrie, Ellsbury and Kalish all have the chance to be part of a deal for Beltran now.

 

I'm pretty sure they could get Beltran right now for Ellsbury, straight up. No need to throw the other two in. If they're trading all three of those guys its for someone like Justin Upton or Matt Kemp.

[a700hitter]

C'mon man' date=' it's the middle of the night where you are and your old buddy E1 is here. Nothin' for me? [/quote']He's been angry with me lately, so I felt the need to reach out. I didn't think that you have been angry with me for a long time. Cyber hugs for one of my favorite debating opponents-- E1!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[a700hitter]

As Jim Bowden said on Twitter:

 

"Theo Epstein one of the best in the gme in terms of discipline in years committed , he and a700 picked the right two players to deviate from this norm."

I made a little change in the interest of accuracy.

[Dipre]

Last year AGon hit lefties better than righties. Cameron will get plenty of AB's against LH pitching filling in for Drew' date=' Ellsbury and Crawford.[/quote']

 

It was a one-year thing, and in no way constitutes a career trend.

 

They're not as "lefty-heavy" as it would initially seem because they do have options (Tek, Cameron) but they need one more righty bat, and i believe Russ Martin to be the answer.

[SCM33]

Last year AGon hit lefties better than righties. Cameron will get plenty of AB's against LH pitching filling in for Drew' date=' Ellsbury and Crawford.[/quote']

 

Im not saying I am right, or you will be wrong.......

but I really think there is no way that:

 

Crawford LH

Ortiz LH

Drew LH

Ellsbury LH

AGON LH

 

all hit in the same lineup.

 

Throw in the fact that Lowire is PUTRID against RH pitching:

 

Year AB R H HR RBI BB BA OBP SLG OPS

2008 186 19 44 1 27 18 .237 .295 .360 .655

2009 44 3 6 1 9 3 .136 .184 .250 .434

2010 94 16 22 3 8 13 .234 .327 .426 .753

Total 324 38 72 5 44 34 .222 .290 .364 .654

 

.....and I think that it means another brick to drop will follow.

 

I think Ellsbury and Lowrie will be part of another deal. At the very least Lowroe will be.

[MNSoxChief102]

That's because (and i don't mean this as an insult) you don't understand the way economics work apparently.

 

Baseball is a business, and businesses operate on a profit margin.

 

If you go and check the income/ expenditures of the teams with the top ten records in baseball last year (and the Mets) you'll notice they all operated with roughly a 30% profit when you compare how much money the teams generate and how much they spend on the teams.

 

This "have as much money to do whatever they want in Free Agency" stuff is nonsense. They have an ownership group that wants to make money and win at the same time, but that also creates a line where a specific limit will be put on the money spent.

 

Even more interesting, even though the Red Sox aren't the most profitable franchise (they're actually third behind both New York teams) they spend like the second most profitable and operate right around the same profit margin of the Yankees.

 

I understand economics just fine thanks. Your point about the Sox profit margin is valid, but what you're failing to take into account is that the only group of people that actually care about that is John Henry and the rest of the ownership team. They alone decide how much profit is acceptable year in and year out. If they choose to reduce their profits slightly to increase their chances of winning a World Series, why should we as fans care one bit?

 

Profit margins mean much more to teams like Kansas City, Minnesota, and Florida, with owners that are clearly more interested in making money than they are in winning championships. What Steinbrenner realized years ago is that winning brings profit, and I think the current Sox ownership group has had that same mentality from day one. As a fan, I can't argue with that at all.

[Keeper]

Ortiz and Crawford are the only guys I would worry about against LHP. Everyone else can hold their own.

[Dipre]

Im not saying I am right, or you will be wrong.......

but I really think there is no way that:

 

Crawford LH

Ortiz LH

Drew LH

Ellsbury LH

AGON LH

 

all hit in the same lineup.

 

Throw in the fact that Lowire is PUTRID against RH pitching:

 

Year AB R H HR RBI BB BA OBP SLG OPS

2008 186 19 44 1 27 18 .237 .295 .360 .655

2009 44 3 6 1 9 3 .136 .184 .250 .434

2010 94 16 22 3 8 13 .234 .327 .426 .753

Tota 324 38 72 5 44 34 .222 .290 .364 .654

 

.....and I think that it means another brick to drop will follow.

 

I think Ellsbury and Lowrie will be part of another deal. At the very least Lowroe will be.

 

You don't need to drop any more bricks.

 

You sign Russell Martin, and do the following against lefties:

 

Crawford LF

Pedroia 2B

Gonzales 1B

Youkilis 3B

Cameron RF

Varitek DH

Martin C

Scoot/Lowrie SS

Ellsbury CF

 

(Not necessarily the lineup, but you get my point).

 

That seems pretty competent IMO.

[bsox0407]

This is huge. We need Martin and few arms. f*** Football and this winter thing. I want BASEBALL>