Sox sign Crawford

[PineRider]

Awfully late to the party. On a business trip to Texas, check my phone in the elevator, saw the news and actually out loud, said, "Ah yea, f*** the Yankees." People looked over at me and then immediately looked at their shoes. Probably from NY.

 

Anyway you slice it, Sox have a POTENT lineup next year.

 

Speed. Power. Stoked!

[PineRider]

The guys on Sports hub called it well "A Sega Genesis lineup".

 

Hilarious!

[jacksonianmarch]

the speed doesn't diminish' date=' the ability to drive the ball does.[/quote']

 

The speed definitely diminishes. And for these smaller guys, their ability to drive the ball goes with it. Speedsters on the whole, do not age well. Ichiro is the exception

[BSN07]

The speed definitely diminishes. And for these smaller guys' date=' their ability to drive the ball goes with it. Speedsters on the whole, do not age well. Ichiro is the exception[/quote']

 

Speed degradation is a worry for me with Crawford. He's played his whole career up until now on turf. This didn't bold well for players like Vlad, Dawson, Castillo so on an so forth. But I will hope for the best, and hope he got off it in time to help lengthen the life of his legs.

 

But if the signed Lee to a big deal like that I would have the same sort of concerns for the longevity of his shoulder on a 7 year deal.

[SoxSport]

Wow was my first reaction this morning when I saw it on Yahoo. What you call an aggressive move.

 

Age seems to be a key factor: They are signing two guys under 30 to long term contracts. They avoid the over 30 free agents long term. That's what may get the Yankees in trouble the next few years, though they can buy their way out of any problem.

 

Crawford is one of the best all-around players in the game. Forget about what he's worth. The money numbers in baseball make no sense. $15 mil, 18 mil, 20 mil... what's the difference. It's tax deductible, and taxes will continue to be low for billionaires. Henry needs a tax writeoff, and that's what the Red Sox are.

 

Now, about those bullpens in RF. Make them bigger.

[ORS]

Where's that bottle of Grey Goose? I need that. Please post it again.

 

Alright, enough dissecting of this move. It was a great move, and I told you why days ago. Theo agreed. Check my posts on Crawford and it will be crystal clear. Now, it's time to build a bullpen. Let's turn our attention to that.

 

Where's ORS? I'm so happy that I want to give him a big cyber hug.

I had been asleep for 3 hours at the time of this post. Gotta hit the bed early if I want to go to the gym before work....because I get to work at 6:30. I'm out of bed by 4:00 am every day.

 

Like others, love the addition, don't love the contract. I'm skeptical he can be a $20M player at the back end of it, but the next 4 years aren't as worrisome, and they have what looks like a very good core (both in the field and on the mound) during that time. They've stacked their chips in what looks like a 5 year window. Exciting times.

 

To all, just don't be surprised if there's another bridge year at the end of that window.

[jacksonianmarch]

Spee degradation is a worry for me with Crawford. He's played his whole career up until now on turf. This didn't bold well for players like Vlad, Dawson, Castillo so on an so forth. But I will hope for the best, and hope he got off it in time to help lengthen the life of his legs.

 

But if the signed Lee to a big deal like that I would have the same sort of concerns for the longevity of his shoulder on a 7 year deal.

 

I dont have the same concerns about Lee's shoulder as I do his back. He's a pretty tall guy with impeccable mechanics who has developed some back issues over the past year. I'd be worried that in the final 2 seasons of the contract, he'd be junk, which is why I dont want him to get 7, but looks like he will

[SoxSport]

Can I just say the Yankee poster's silence or few words around here now is priceless Their sweating bad' date=' it's a 3 horse race for Lee now. LAA has all the money they where going to offer Crawford now. Lee definitely gets 7 year offer now IMO.[/quote']

 

Beltre, too. Figure the Angels will get him--maybe for their price. The Yankees are already up to 7 years on Lee--a sign they are concerned. The Angels may jump in here, but I think there's a good chance he stays in Texas. That would be a disaster for NY.

[DirtDog]

i'm lovin' it

[jacksonianmarch]

Can I just say the Yankee poster's silence or few words around here now is priceless Their sweating bad' date=' it's a 3 horse race for Lee now. LAA has all the money they where going to offer Crawford now. Lee definitely gets 7 year offer now IMO.[/quote']

 

I havent been silent, and no I am not sweating at all. Nobody can get into a money war with the Yankees when the Yankees need a player. It always ends up in our favor.

 

I will say this, though, with TB taking a decided drop from last yr, it looks like the Yankees and Sox will both be making the playoffs out of the east. How about we continue this in October, when both of us should match up for the ALCS. It will be like old times

[Palodios]

I'm curious if Lee had any idea he'd get the kind of offers he's looking at. I wouldn't be surprised if someone springs for 8 years. I wonder if there is a point where he will say to himself... he got the money he wanted with a team, and not even take the best offer to play where he wants to play.

[TheKilo]

The speed definitely diminishes. And for these smaller guys' date=' their ability to drive the ball goes with it. Speedsters on the whole, do not age well. Ichiro is the exception[/quote']

 

That's actually not true, players with multiple skills a la Crawford age a lot better than big sluggers. lots of studies out there prove that. He'll be just fine for the next five years or so; kind of like how Damon had some great statistial years in his mid 30s.

[BSN07]

Beltre' date=' too. Figure the Angels will get him--maybe for their price. The Yankees are already up to 7 years on Lee--a sign they are concerned. The Angels may jump in here, but I think there's a good chance he stays in Texas. That would be a disaster for NY.[/quote']

I hope not, Sow would lose the 1st rounder for Beltre.

I havent been silent, and no I am not sweating at all. Nobody can get into a money war with the Yankees when the Yankees need a player. It always ends up in our favor.

 

I will say this, though, with TB taking a decided drop from last yr, it looks like the Yankees and Sox will both be making the playoffs out of the east. How about we continue this in October, when both of us should match up for the ALCS. It will be like old times

 

No not you, you have been on through most of it with a fairly level head. It's the other yahoo's that only show up to annoy. You give a fair share of both annoyance and good opinions

[d-money]

Our lineup has become too lefty.I thought we needed to add another right handed power hitter to go with Youks.

[Ravenous916]

Sox made a 7 year offer at Cliff Lee just before signing Crawford:

 

Before signing Carl Crawford, the Red Sox may have engaged in some good old-fashioned negotiating hijinks.

 

It would be just like the Sox to throw a monkey wrench into the Yankees’ attempt to sign Cliff Lee

 

And this little stunt, if it indeed happened, would have qualified.

 

The Sox are one team that made a seven-year offer to Lee, according to officials with another club.

 

But there was a catch.

 

The offer was for a lower dollar figure than Lee would accept, making it an offer that Lee was certain to refuse.

 

LOVE that. :thumbsup:

[Dipre]

As always, the voice of reason. We have a winner. Sure it's an overpay but when is signing a FA not an overpay? And besides, if I'm going with a 6-7 year deal for someone, it's a position player and not a pitcher. Let the Yankees overpay Lee and then have to do the same thing when Sabathia opts out.

 

As for Beltran, you're all high if you think Theo's touching that with a ten foot pole.

 

My guess on the lineup:

 

Crawford

Pedroia

Gonzalez

Youkilis

Ortiz

Lowrie

Drew

Salty

Ellsbury

 

 

Put in Cameron v LHP for Drew.

 

Sign Scott Downs, and sign one more RH bat for the bench and see you in Ft. Myers.

 

Why sit Drew instead of Ortiz?

 

Even though he struggled against lefties last year, he's been historically able to hold his own against them, and last year featured a .262 BABIP against them. I say he's a better bet of bouncing back against then than Ortiz. So i'd DH Cameron.

 

I'd also play Varitek against every lefty.

[Dipre]

the speed doesn't diminish' date=' the ability to drive the ball does.[/quote']

 

Speed does diminish. It's usually the first skill that starts going in baseball players, the question is at what age does it start going.

 

The thing about Crawford is (in my opinion) is if he will have enough growth in the power department (sort of like Johnny Damon did) to overcome the eventual drop in speed.

 

Damon didn't have his first 20-HR season until he was 30.

[italstallianion]

Crawford is also younger than a lot of FA's, so it's not like he'll be 40 when the contract is over. So while his speed will diminish, he'd be around Ichiro's present age when his contract is done.

[yankees228]

I had been asleep for 3 hours at the time of this post. Gotta hit the bed early if I want to go to the gym before work....because I get to work at 6:30. I'm out of bed by 4:00 am every day.

 

Like others, love the addition, don't love the contract. I'm skeptical he can be a $20M player at the back end of it, but the next 4 years aren't as worrisome, and they have what looks like a very good core (both in the field and on the mound) during that time. They've stacked their chips in what looks like a 5 year window. Exciting times.

 

To all, just don't be surprised if there's another bridge year at the end of that window.

 

I echo the bolded part. Not much to add that hasn't already been stated. I see this as a great move for the first four or five years, and then an unknown after that. Really nice signing by Theo.

 

From the Yankees' perspective, if they don't sign Cliff Lee, I'll be worried about their ability to compete with the Red Sox over 162 games.

[seehard]

Buster Olney's projected lineup...

 

Pedey

Crawford

Youk

Gonzo

Papi

Lowrie

Drew

Salty

Ellsbury

 

 

Idk if I like Lowrie that high in the lineup.... on the bright side Pedey's career OBP (.369) is significantly better than Crawford (.337), in fact, Crawford has only one year with a OBP of .360+

[BSN07]

Buster Olney's projected lineup...

 

Pedey

Crawford

Youk

Gonzo

Papi

Lowrie

Drew

Salty

Ellsbury

 

 

Idk if I like Lowrie that high in the lineup.... on the bright side Pedey's career OBP (.369) is significantly better than Crawford (.337), in fact, Crawford has only one year with a OBP of .360+

 

He had a OPS of over .900 last year. Why are you worried?

[BSN07]

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Agon

Youk

Crawford

Ortiz

Lowrie

Drew

Salty

 

 

If they can sign Martin

 

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Agon

Youk

Crawford

Martin

Ortiz

Drew

Lowrie

[a700hitter]

What does this mean?

 

This "Theo can do no wrong" crap is ********. When he shits the bed (like the Lugo contract or the Gagne trade) people will call it a s***** move. You find a reason to criticize every move, every time, reaching for the most ridiculous arguments (See: Gonzales, Adrian). Everyone who thought it would be a bad idea to sign him still thinks it's a s***** contract that will hurt the team down the road.

 

You hate it when people put words in your mouth, so stop doing the same thing then setting up the victim act.

Did I mention any poster by name? No, I didn't. As you would say, it was directed at no one in particular. I think turnabout is fair play in this case. I am continuously mischaracterized as anti-Theo all the time. As long as that continues, I think it is fair for me to refer to others as the "Theo can do no wrong" crowd or fanboys. It's funny that in criticizing me for that you continue to mischaracterize me by saying "[y]ou find a reason to criticize every move, every time."

 

The fact is that we have different approaches so we will criticize Theo for different moves. There was just a lot of people on this board who were in shock that Theo was of like mind with me on this move. I find it funny that so many people claim to know what Theo thinks about things and what his approach will dictate. I never presume to know what he will do. I just post what I would like him to do. I am ecstatic that he did this.

 

As for your comment about AGon, are you accusing me of not wanting to get AGon. I love that he got AGon. So, I don't know what you are talking about.

[Dipre]

I'm accusing you of reaching on your criticisms (Boggs ate Theo's lunch!!!111!!!) and always having a reason to complain about everything.

 

No need to look further into it.

[seehard]

He had a OPS of over .900 last year. Why are you worried?

 

It was 850 and pedey is 830 for his career and 860 last year. Lead off is an OBP spot.

 

Last two years:

 

Pedey

09 -

74 BB

48 2B

1 3B

 

 

10 - (was on pace for)

74+ BB

48+ 2B

1+ 3B

 

Crawford

09 -

51 BB

28 2B

8 3B

 

10 -

46 BB

30 2B

13 3B

 

 

Pedey doesn't have the speed but with Ellsbury at the bottom turning it over its not as big an issue. Plus it gives us more flexibility to keep Youk's high OBP in front of Gonzo.

[a700hitter]

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Agon

Youk

Crawford

Ortiz

Lowrie

Drew

Salty

 

 

If they can sign Martin

 

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Agon

Youk

Crawford

Martin

Ortiz

Drew

Lowrie

 

I'd move Pedroia to lead off. I'd stack the best hitters right at the top. Petey is a high OBP. I'd love to see him and Crawford setting the table for the big boppers-- Youkilis, AGon and Ortiz. I'm not a believer in trying to extend the lineup by putting one of the lesser guys (i.e. Ellsbury) in the top of the order. My order against RHP would be:

 

1. Pedrioa

2. Crawford

3. Youkilis

4. AGon

5. Ortiz

6. Drew

7. Scutaro

8. Salty/Tek

9. Ellsbury

 

Aginst LHP:

 

1. Pedrioa

2. Crawford

3. Youkilis

4. AGon

5. Ortiz

6. Cameron

7. Drew

8. Scutaro

9. Salty/Tek

 

It would be great to get Russell Martin and work him into this lineup.

[yeszir]

It was 850 and pedey is 830 for his career and 860 last year. Lead off is an OBP spot.

 

Last two years:

 

Pedey

09 -

74 BB

48 2B

1 3B

 

 

10 - (was on pace for)

74+ BB

48+ 2B

1+ 3B

 

Crawford

09 -

51 BB

28 2B

8 3B

 

10 -

46 BB

30 2B

13 3B

 

 

Pedey doesn't have the speed but with Ellsbury at the bottom turning it over its not as big an issue. Plus it gives us more flexibility to keep Youk's high OBP in front of Gonzo.

Welcome to Talksox

[a700hitter]

I'm accusing you of reaching on your criticisms (Boggs ate Theo's lunch!!!111!!!) and always having a reason to complain about everything.

 

No need to look further into it.

I'm not complaining now, so there goes that theory. If I wasn't so old, I'd be turning cartwheels.

 

It seem really hard for you to muster much enthusiasm about this deal. At least that is the vibe that I am getting. That's too bad. Our guy, ...correction ... my guy, Theo just scored the most talented FA non-pitcher of the 2010 class. You should be reveling, if for no other reason than the fact that Yankee fans all over NY swallowed their tongues when they got the news. They are not happy at all.

[seehard]

Welcome to Talksox

 

Thanks man, I'm a lifelong Sox fan from Louisiana, just graduated college a couple years ago and now I've got the funds to make my annual pilgrimage up to Boston. Wen't last year and it blew me away. Seriously considering moving up after I finish grad school!

[Cocos Disciples]

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Agon

Youk

Crawford

Ortiz

Lowrie

Drew

Salty

 

 

If they can sign Martin

 

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Agon

Youk

Crawford

Martin

Ortiz

Drew

Lowrie

 

I don't think splitting up the lefties and righties is worth having Martin hit 6th over Ortiz and Drew.