Yankees 2010-2011 Hotstove Thread

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

As it stands right now' date=' I do think the sox win the AL East. They have the innings eaters 1-3 and 2 guys who can give innings behind them in Beckett and DiceK. The Yankees have 2 guys who have a record of eating innings, one second yr starter and a bunch of ??s. Even though the Yankees pen is the best in baseball, their rotation will need an upgrade to be a world series contender[/quote']

 

I want to say the dodgers have the best bullpen but that would just show that I'm just being a hater. I would have to agree with you on the Yankees having the best bullpen in the league.

[Meh]

The Orioles have added a lot of pieces to their roster. With Showalter managing' date=' I think they will be much improved. The starting pitching looks thin on paper, but Matusz could be ready for a break out year. I don't expect that they will be the doormats of the AL East this season. The Rays may be the doormats of 2011.[/quote']

 

Oh for heavens to besty, wash your mouth out with soap. The O's making the playoffs. Jeeze

[diony]

With a crowded closer market next offseason, why would Soriano opt out from making 11.67m a year? Maybe Boras is thinking he's the best closer after Paps and wants to renegotiate with Yankees once Rivera retires.

[jacksonianmarch]

He's a better closer than Paps. He is the second best reliever in baseball, IMO, behind Mariano

[diony]

Have two elite closers pitching the 8th and 9th inning. I like 7 innings games.

 

But the opt out clauses concerns me, if he opts out after the first year, we get no value out of him, losing a first rounder on. 1 year rental for a set up guy? Not worth it.

[a700hitter]

Two rotation spots filled with rookies? The last time that happened was 2008 - a year when the Yanks missed the playoffs. I declared them dead in the first half of the season. I can't remember the last time that I had done that. If they do not land an experienced effective starter before the start of the season, I would expect that the 2011 Yanks would meet the same fate, despite the kick ass bullpen.

[BSN07]

Good move for the Yanks IMO.

 

Are the elbow worries about Soriano that came up around this time last year when he was traded not a worry anymore? Not poo pooing the signing, this is something I asked when the some where suggesting the Sox get in on him and I don't remember what the deal was.

 

The NYY FO is so transparent right now. If the totally say they are not in on someone, won't go more on $ or years, whatever. They are surely to sign, re-sign, trade for that player within a week. I like The Sox style of not commenting on any situation better. Not saying this type of action would negate my entire fan hood for a team, but if I was a Yanks fan it be semi embarrassing when the continually pull the same crap over and over.

[BSN07]

The Royals have agreed to sign Jeff Francis to a one-year deal, according to ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick. The agreement with the Frontline client is pending a physical.

 

One less option for the Yanks rotation.

[Meh]

Oh well I might just sign Jones for a 4th OF and check up on Jon Rauch and see if we can get a deal, if not I'm ready to go into the season as we are now. So long as Joba is the 4th starter. Use the 15-20(depending on Jones/Rauch) million we have left to take guys off teams on the cheap mid season.

[BSN07]

According to MLBTR Soriano's deal has Two opt-outs in it. So this is probably a one or maybe 2 year deal and he will leave as soon as Boras see's enough of a market for Closers.

[a700hitter]

Good move for the Yanks IMO.

 

Are the elbow worries about Soriano that came up around this time last year when he was traded not a worry anymore? Not poo pooing the signing, this is something I asked when the some where suggesting the Sox get in on him and I don't remember what the deal was.

 

The NYY FO is so transparent right now. If the totally say they are not in on someone, won't go more on $ or years, whatever. They are surely to sign, re-sign, trade for that player within a week. I like The Sox style of not commenting on any situation better. Not saying this type of action would negate my entire fan hood for a team, but if I was a Yanks fan it be semi embarrassing when the continually pull the same crap over and over.

I'm not sure why the Yankee FO tactic would be embarrassing to the fans. As a fan, my only care is that they put good players on the field. Maybe they are embarrassing themselves with this stupid tactic, but I don't think their fans are embarrassed. They should be happy that they got a really good pitcher.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Money thrown away that could have been used in a salary dumping trade this season. Yanks needed no help in the bullpen. I don't understand this move. Did Cashman do this just to make a move? Money burning a hole in his pocket?? Makes no sense.

[BSN07]

I'm not sure why the Yankee FO tactic would be embarrassing to the fans. As a fan' date=' my only care is that they put good players on the field. Maybe they are embarrassing themselves with this stupid tactic, but I don't think their fans are embarrassed. They should be happy that they got a really good pitcher.[/quote']

 

Maybe embarrassed is too strong of a word. All I know is if Theo came out and flat out denied every player, and state the reasons why, then within a week given that player everything he was looking I would shaking my head a bit. Everyone know knows everything that comes out of his mouth is complete BS. We won't bend to Arod! we don't need Tex, we have Nick Swisher! We won't be increasing our offer to Jeter, or Mo for that matter! We have no interest in Soriano, we value our 1st round pick! Just shut up and don't comment. Handle your business and talk about the guys who you have on your team.

[a700hitter]

Maybe embarrassed is too strong of a word. All I know is if Theo came out and flat out denied every player' date=' and state the reasons why, then within a week given that player everything he was looking I would shaking my head a bit. Everyone know knows everything that comes out of his mouth is complete BS. We won't bend to Arod! we don't need Tex, we have Nick Swisher! We won't be increasing our offer to Jeter, or Mo for that matter! We have no interest in Soriano, we value our 1st round pick! Just shut up and don't comment. Handle your business and talk about the guys who you have on your team.[/quote']If Theo continues putting guys on the field that win, I don't care if he starts double talking like Casey Stengel. They are a bunch of pencil pushing nerds with great jobs in baseball. I envy them.

[Divinity]

Money thrown away that could have been used in a salary dumping trade this season. Yanks needed no help in the bullpen. I don't understand this move. Did Cashman do this just to make a move? Money burning a hole in his pocket?? Makes no sense.

 

With no elite starter available and with Joakim Soria off limits in Kansas City, Soriano was the right move.

 

Realize this: Despite GM Brian Cashman's public words that the Yankees are not counting on Pettitte to return, the Yankees are also not counting Pettitte out either. There are strong voices in the organization who still think he will return. Maybe Soriano offers that final nudge.

 

Even if Pettitte doesn't return, the Soriano move makes great sense. His agent, Scott Boras, said the only team Soriano would setup for is the Yankees. The Yankees have taken Boras up on that offer and now have a dominant facet. They have a bullpen that is not only better than the Red Sox's, but especially designed to beat Boston.

 

Besides Soriano in the eighth and Rivera in the ninth, the Yankees suddenly have an unbelievably strong pen. Joba Chamberlain may have a career that is going the wrong way, but as a seventh-inning guy in combo with David Robertson, that's not too shabby a prospect for the Yanks. Add in Pedro Feliciano and Boone Logan to take care of the Red Sox's left-handed bats, and suddenly Boston, while still the favorites, are not as prohibitive favorites anymore.

 

Soriano, meanwhile, is almost unhittable against right-handers, making manager Joe Girardi's charts easy to read and execute. Girardi, who usually uses the bullpen very well, just got even smarter.

[SoxFanForsyth]

With no elite starter available and with Joakim Soria off limits in Kansas City' date=' Soriano was the right move.[/quote']

 

What is Soriano going to do for the Yankees when they can't get him the ball with a lead in 60% of their games because 3/5 of their SP is terrible? CC is fantastic, Hughes has the stuff to be great, Burnett, Nova, and Mitre can not supply 60% of the starts and have an effective team.

 

Also - I don't see how this makes them a better team than last year. Kerry Wood last year posted a 0.69 ERA last year for the Yankees. Soriano, at best, will replace Kerry Wood seamlessly.

 

Without taking into consideration the future performance of Wood vs Soriano, all this move does is keep their bullpen consistent with the performance last year.

 

After adding Kerry Wood last year, in August and September, the Yankees pitching staff posted a 4.31 ERA overall, 25 points higher than their season total. Most can be attributed to the loss of Andy Pettitte during that time, but even with the addition of Wood, their team ERA increased significantly.

 

I don't understand how adding Soriano makes their team any better than it was last year other than the fact that you have Soriano for a full year vs Wood for 2 months. Kerry Wood did not significantly alter the Yankee's pitching last year because the SP was a disaster after Pettitte was gone.

[BSN07]

What is Soriano going to do for the Yankees when they can't get him the ball with a lead in 60% of their games because 3/5 of their SP is terrible? CC is fantastic, Hughes has the stuff to be great, Burnett, Nova, and Mitre can not supply 60% of the starts and have an effective team.

 

Also - I don't see how this makes them a better team than last year. Kerry Wood last year posted a 0.69 ERA last year for the Yankees. Soriano, at best, will replace Kerry Wood seamlessly.

 

Without taking into consideration the future performance of Wood vs Soriano, all this move does is keep their bullpen consistent with the performance last year.

 

After adding Kerry Wood last year, in August and September, the Yankees pitching staff posted a 4.31 ERA overall, 25 points higher than their season total. Most can be attributed to the loss of Andy Pettitte during that time, but even with the addition of Wood, their team ERA increased significantly.

 

I don't understand how adding Soriano makes their team any better than it was last year other than the fact that you have Soriano for a full year vs Wood for 2 months. Kerry Wood did not significantly alter the Yankee's pitching last year because the SP was a disaster after Pettitte was gone.

 

Shhhh, your gonna ruin the surprise lol

[Palodios]

An interesting choice by the Yankees, and by Soriano. I knew they were going to do SOMETHING this offseason, and I definitely knew they were bound to do something with that extra 25 million too.

[yankees228]

Good move for the Yanks IMO.

 

Are the elbow worries about Soriano that came up around this time last year when he was traded not a worry anymore? Not poo pooing the signing, this is something I asked when the some where suggesting the Sox get in on him and I don't remember what the deal was.

 

The NYY FO is so transparent right now. If the totally say they are not in on someone, won't go more on $ or years, whatever. They are surely to sign, re-sign, trade for that player within a week. I like The Sox style of not commenting on any situation better. Not saying this type of action would negate my entire fan hood for a team, but if I was a Yanks fan it be semi embarrassing when the continually pull the same crap over and over.

 

I think there's pretty clearly a tactical reason for doing this. The whole process is one big game, and Cashman is just playing along.

[yankees228]

What is Soriano going to do for the Yankees when they can't get him the ball with a lead in 60% of their games because 3/5 of their SP is terrible? CC is fantastic, Hughes has the stuff to be great, Burnett, Nova, and Mitre can not supply 60% of the starts and have an effective team.

 

Also - I don't see how this makes them a better team than last year. Kerry Wood last year posted a 0.69 ERA last year for the Yankees. Soriano, at best, will replace Kerry Wood seamlessly.

 

Without taking into consideration the future performance of Wood vs Soriano, all this move does is keep their bullpen consistent with the performance last year.

 

After adding Kerry Wood last year, in August and September, the Yankees pitching staff posted a 4.31 ERA overall, 25 points higher than their season total. Most can be attributed to the loss of Andy Pettitte during that time, but even with the addition of Wood, their team ERA increased significantly.

 

I don't understand how adding Soriano makes their team any better than it was last year other than the fact that you have Soriano for a full year vs Wood for 2 months. Kerry Wood did not significantly alter the Yankee's pitching last year because the SP was a disaster after Pettitte was gone.

 

All of this is reasonable. Just a couple comments.

 

While the bullpen wasn't their weakness prior to this move, making one area of the team stronger can only help. With Rivera-Soriano-Robertson-Feliciano, they have the advantage of being able to ask less of their starting pitchers. It will be nice to be satisfied with a five inning start from the back end of the rotation, and the only way one can feel this way is with a dominant bullpen behind the starter. That's what the Yankees now have.

 

The only way this can be construed as a bad move, in my opinion, is if there were better ways to spend the money. When it comes to the current free agent market, there obviously aren't better ways, and it's possible that Cashman believed this move wouldn't hinder them from making some kind of splash during the season. People will also bring up the draft pick, which is fair, but not a huge concern of mine. It was one of the final picks of the entire first round, and it's possible they can get equal value in the second and third rounds. Furthermore, with the opt-out clause, it's possible that they'll recoup that pick at some point within the next couple years.

 

Lastly, this could mean a transition for Joba back into the starting rotation. We can't expect him to be a lights out starter, but it's likely that he'll be an improvement over what they currently have. This would improve the rotation, and would be a direct effect of the Soriano signing.

[BSN07]

ESPN.com’s Buster Olney suggests there’s a “major divide of opinion on Soriano within the organization, and that [GM Brian] Cashman's autonomy in matters of baseball operations may have eroded.” Olney points out that the Yankees now have two of the six relievers in baseball who earn $10MM or more

 

So Cashman is back to being a puppet for a Steinbrenner?

[SoxFanForsyth]

All of this is reasonable. Just a couple comments.

 

While the bullpen wasn't their weakness prior to this move, making one area of the team stronger can only help. With Rivera-Soriano-Robertson-Feliciano, they have the advantage of being able to ask less of their starting pitchers. It will be nice to be satisfied with a five inning start from the back end of the rotation, and the only way one can feel this way is with a dominant bullpen behind the starter. That's what the Yankees now have.

 

The only way this can be construed as a bad move, in my opinion, is if there were better ways to spend the money. When it comes to the current free agent market, there obviously aren't better ways, and it's possible that Cashman believed this move wouldn't hinder them from making some kind of splash during the season. People will also bring up the draft pick, which is fair, but not a huge concern of mine. It was one of the final picks of the entire first round, and it's possible they can get equal value in the second and third rounds. Furthermore, with the opt-out clause, it's possible that they'll recoup that pick at some point within the next couple years.

 

Lastly, this could mean a transition for Joba back into the starting rotation. We can't expect him to be a lights out starter, but it's likely that he'll be an improvement over what they currently have. This would improve the rotation, and would be a direct effect of the Soriano signing.

 

It's 12mm + a 40% luxury tax penalty that could have been used in other areas. There are 2 gigantic holes in the SP rotation in Nova and Mitre, and another huge hole in Burnett.

 

The money could have been used much better in a salary dumping trade with any number of teams to get a couple SP.

 

Santana from the Mets if he comes back healthy, Ryan Dempster from the Cubs, Mark Buhrle from the ChiSox, Jake Peavy from the ChiSox. or even Chris Carpenter from the Cardinals if they're looking to get something back for him before Pujols eats up his money.

 

These are all pitchers who, with the right coaching, could become studs. And they're all in the 14-18mm range. They're all better than Nova and Mitre, especially Mitre, and the money could have, and IMO should have been saved for a salary dumping trade.

[yankees228]

It's 12mm + a 40% luxury tax penalty that could have been used in other areas. There are 2 gigantic holes in the SP rotation in Nova and Mitre, and another huge hole in Burnett.

 

The money could have been used much better in a salary dumping trade with any number of teams to get a couple SP.

 

Santana from the Mets if he comes back healthy, Ryan Dempster from the Cubs, Mark Buhrle from the ChiSox, Jake Peavy from the ChiSox.

 

These are all pitchers who, with the right coaching, could become studs. And they're all in the 14-18mm range. They're all better than Nova and Mitre, especially Mitre, and the money could have, and IMO should have been saved for a salary dumping trade.

 

And how do you know that signing Soriano prohibits them from obtaining one of these pitchers?

[Divinity]

It's 12mm + a 40% luxury tax penalty that could have been used in other areas. There are 2 gigantic holes in the SP rotation in Nova and Mitre, and another huge hole in Burnett.

 

The money could have been used much better in a salary dumping trade with any number of teams to get a couple SP.

 

Santana from the Mets if he comes back healthy, Ryan Dempster from the Cubs, Mark Buhrle from the ChiSox, Jake Peavy from the ChiSox. or even Chris Carpenter from the Cardinals if they're looking to get something back for him before Pujols eats up his money.

 

These are all pitchers who, with the right coaching, could become studs. And they're all in the 14-18mm range. They're all better than Nova and Mitre, especially Mitre, and the money could have, and IMO should have been saved for a salary dumping trade.

 

Yankees payroll is currently at 180m, which leaves them with another 20m to spend. I'm sure Burnett will rebound this year too and put up decent numbers, last year his mind wasn't in the game going through a divorce.

 

I'm willing to bet by June ether Pettitte will come back for half a season or they make a trade before the deadline. Problem solved.

[SoxFanForsyth]

And how do you know that signing Soriano prohibits them from obtaining one of these pitchers?

 

They have 20mm to spend right now. They can only afford 1 pitcher prior to the start of the season, and the longer they wait, the bigger the risk that they will run into trouble from having a pitching rotation that is posting a 4.3 ERA. By the time they make their move, or Pettitte comes back, the Yankees could well be 6 to 8 games back in the East. Is one SP worth 6 to 8 wins more than who he replaced in 1/2 of a season?

[Dipre]

So wait, signing Soriano and giving the Yankees the best back-end of the bullpen for a full season is somehow not a good thing?

 

Since when have "budget" concerns been real in the Bronx?

 

Sounds like looking for things to criticize where there are none.

[SoxFanForsyth]

So wait, signing Soriano and giving the Yankees the best back-end of the bullpen for a full season is somehow not a good thing?

 

Since when have "budget" concerns been real in the Bronx?

 

Sounds like looking for things to criticize where there are none.

 

Who said it's not a good thing? I said I didn't understand the move because they had a good bullpen and they have other areas that need addressing much more than the bullpen, which could have gone into 2011 the way it was and been solid.

 

And since when have budget concerns been real in the Bronx? Probably since Hank passed, and his sons, and Cashman too, are probably getting a little tired of being raked across the coals in Luxury tax payments.

 

The Yankees have dropped $192mm in luxury tax payments over the past 8 years. That's $24mm a year. And they have won 1 World Series. I guess you just think the Yankees have some magic well of money that they can dip into? I don't know about you, but when I see over 10% of annual expenditures being spent on penalties and fines, I try to cut that number down significantly.

[Dipre]

Which areas need much more addressing than the bullpen? It's basically the starting rotation, and there really aren't any worthwhile options out there that would offer security in the back-end of their rotation, so shortening games and securing leads that the rotation does give them seems logical to me.

 

Also, they have 20 MM left to spend. They have enough money to do whatever they want. The move makes sense.

[Divinity]

 

The Yankees have dropped $192mm in luxury tax payments over the past 8 years. That's $24mm a year. And they have won 1 World Series. I guess you just think the Yankees have some magic well of money that they can dip into? I don't know about you, but when I see over 10% of annual expenditures being spent on penalties and fines, I try to cut that number down significantly.

 

They do have a magic well of money, Yankees annual revenues are in the neighbourhood of $600 million.

[SoxFanForsyth]

They do have a magic well of money' date=' Yankees annual revenues are in the neighbourhood of $600 million.[/quote']

 

They're actually in the $450mm range, but it doesn't matter.

 

I would go on about the increase in payroll and luxury taxes eventually affecting the future of the organization, but that's getting way out of the element of the $12mm that is being paid to Soriano.

 

My whole point is, this seems like Cashman is making a move just to make a move because he had money burning in his pocket and saw someone that, while he helps the team, really doesn't do too much.