New York Yankees 2010 offseason thread

[Dipre]

Gardner plays better D' date=' all the objective ratings say so.[/quote']

 

In limited sample sizes.

 

Don't even go there.

[jacksonianmarch]

Gardner played 1/2 as many innings as Ellsbury. We arent talking about 30 games here. We're talking a half season. I am sorry Dipre. One of the biggest knocks on Ellsbury coming up was his route running. Highlight reel catches are not the only way to evaluate defense. Sometimes those highlight reel catches are the result of a bad jump or route.

[Dipre]

Gardner played 1/2 as many innings as Ellsbury. We arent talking about 30 games here. We're talking a half season. I am sorry Dipre. One of the biggest knocks on Ellsbury coming up was his route running. Highlight reel catches are not the only way to evaluate defense. Sometimes those highlight reel catches are the result of a bad jump or route.

 

Half as many innings is exactly my point.

 

Ellsbury's real problem is the depth in which he's been playing.

 

When Gardner plays an entire season's games worth of CF, come back to me.

[26 to 6]

Rosenthal is reporting that the Yankees might be interested in both Mike Gonzalez and Rafael Soriano. I've always been big on both of these guys and would love if they added one, if not both of them.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10357594

[jacksonianmarch]

I'd wait to see what the Braves do with arbitration. I would really not be please with giving up a 1st round pick for a reliever that we may not even need

[yankees228]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/11/rosenthal-damon-will-seek-abreu-money.html

 

Interesting. I would probably be OK with that deal if I were the Yankees, but it's a decent amount of money for a guy who is likely on the decline, and is a terrible fielder.

 

EDIT: That would mean a 3.5 million dollar pay cut on a yearly basis.

[jacksonianmarch]

Damon keeps touting his ability to stay on the field, but there were plenty of warning signs. The speed is gone. Yeah, he stole that base in Philly that turned out to be big, but it caught the Phils by surprise. In the past, Damon running was a surprise to no one. He stole 12 bases this yr, which was a career low and he lost 2 or 3 steps in the OF. Plus, those creaky calves kept acting up.

 

Thing is, on the open market with his home and road splits, I dont see anyone willing to invest more than $5mil a yr in him. Cause outside of Yankee stadium, he's a slap hitter with minimal power and declining speed. He still has a good eye and can provide good leadership for a team like KC, but he isnt a cog in the wheel of a championship team outside of the Bronx, seeing as he tailored his swing to the new stadium. I bet Cash could stick to his guns on him at 2 yrs and 16mil and get him. I dont see anyone outbidding that.

[26 to 6]

I think even $8m a year is overpaying for him. If he doesn't sign for that let him goooo, plain and simple.

[yankees228]

I think even $8m a year is overpaying for him. If he doesn't sign for that let him goooo' date=' plain and simple.[/quote']

 

But then where do you go? Personally, I don't want Matsui back. As I've said before, I think the DH spot should become a rotation of Posada, A-Rod, and Damon (if he comes back).

 

I would like the Yankees to bring back Damon and bring back Nady, or someone of his caliber at a cheap price.

 

This would set you up with a lineup of...

 

Jeter SS

Damon LF/DH

Teixeira 1B

A-Rod 3B/DH

Cano 2B

Posada C/DH

Swisher RF

Cabrera CF

Rotating spot of a backup 3B, backup LF, backup C, and primary pinch hitter (the Nady type)

 

The money that they're saving by letting Matsui go, and bringing back Damon on a discounted rate (less than the 13 million he made last year), I would reinvest in a starting pitcher (Lackey or Chapman), regardless of whether or not Pettitte decides to return.

 

Then, after next season, I would make a hard run at Crawford.

 

Thoughts? I'm desperate for some hot stove talk lol.

[Gom]

Dude, Arod wouldn't see a strike in the post-season. They would pitch to Cano all day, and he's not disciplined enough to lay off. You need a bat behind Arod or he's going to be basically rendered ineffective.

 

Matsui on a one year deal. If he finally shits the bed, you would be able to go get a bat with the stuff you've compiled in the minors. He will come cheap, he brings money to the Yankees from Japan...I don't see why not. Matsui is ten times the hitter Posada is, and if you wanna give him a day off, catch Molina. Arod can get a day off as well, rest Matsui.

 

The versatility the Yankees had was amazing. Why f*** with it?

 

Keep these older players until they show they can't perform on one year deals. It's not much of an investment.

[yankees228]

Dude, Arod wouldn't see a strike in the post-season. They would pitch to Cano all day, and he's not disciplined enough to lay off. You need a bat behind Arod or he's going to be basically rendered ineffective.

 

Matsui on a one year deal. If he finally shits the bed, you would be able to go get a bat with the stuff you've compiled in the minors. He will come cheap, he brings money to the Yankees from Japan...I don't see why not. Matsui is ten times the hitter Posada is, and if you wanna give him a day off, catch Molina. Arod can get a day off as well, rest Matsui.

 

The versatility the Yankees had was amazing. Why f*** with it?

 

Keep these older players until they show they can't perform on one year deals. It's not much of an investment.

 

How can you worry about the postseason right now? The hope is that Cano continues his natural progression, and it's completely reasonable to think there's a good chance his ridiculous leverage splits will even out. Cano has a chance to really solidify that fifth spot for a long time, in my opinion, and I think this year is the opportunity to give him that shot.

 

As for Posada, I know you have this real hatred for him, but he had a higher OPS+ than Matsui last year, and they have the same career OPS+. That's with Posada catching. Come on, lets be fair about this.

 

Finally, you talk about versatility, well, bringing Matsui back severely hampers that versatility. I think an effort needs to be made, immediately, to preserve Posada, A-Rod, and even Jeter (he is obviously going to re-sign) for the duration of their contracts or future contracts. This effort cannot really be made if Matsui is back.

[Imperial59]

Gardner played 1/2 as many innings as Ellsbury. We arent talking about 30 games here. We're talking a half season. I am sorry Dipre. One of the biggest knocks on Ellsbury coming up was his route running. Highlight reel catches are not the only way to evaluate defense. Sometimes those highlight reel catches are the result of a bad jump or route.

 

Is half a season anywhere near a reliable sample size for defensive stats or are you misusing stats to promote a Yankees player over a Sox player as a Yankees fan who chooses to post on a Red Sox fan site?

[jacksonianmarch]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10357594

 

Looks like the Yankees are in on the bidding for Nick Johnson. They see him as a fall-back option should Matsui and Damon both leave. Hell, I love this guy as an option for the lineup, but his lack of versatility means that he'll occupy the DH position. If you put a .420OBP guy into the 2 hole in the lineup in front of ARod, Tex, and Posada, they you are talking about a LOT of runs scoring.

[kreinbihl34]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10357594

 

Looks like the Yankees are in on the bidding for Nick Johnson. They see him as a fall-back option should Matsui and Damon both leave. Hell, I love this guy as an option for the lineup, but his lack of versatility means that he'll occupy the DH position. If you put a .420OBP guy into the 2 hole in the lineup in front of ARod, Tex, and Posada, they you are talking about a LOT of runs scoring.

 

So who are the Yankees going to put in the two-hole for the other 80 games?

[Gom]

How can you worry about the postseason right now?

Easy. I'm a Yankee fan.

 

Seriously, the Yankees are in the post-season next year. It's pretty much a given. Even if they don't sign anyone but get comparable players, it's hard to see how they won't. The Angels are the class of the West. The Red Sox will be there.

 

Are you really telling me that the the number two teams in the AL West or Central will knock off the Yankees? Baltimore, Toronto, Oakland, Seattle, Kansas City have no shot. The rest of the AL Central is not going to do it either. I don't think Tampa will either. I would build a team for the post-season. Cashman did it last year, and it worked perfectly.

The hope is that Cano continues his natural progression, and it's completely reasonable to think there's a good chance his ridiculous leverage splits will even out. Cano has a chance to really solidify that fifth spot for a long time, in my opinion, and I think this year is the opportunity to give him that shot.

Cano reminds me a lot of Soriano. He destroys bad pitching. However, pitchers with control own him. In the playoffs, he will see better pitchers, and they would shut him down. The trick to Cano...just don't throw him a strike. Mediocre pitchers will miss in the zone and he'll kill them. Quality pitchers own him. Unless he develops a good eye, his value is much less than you'd think.

As for Posada, I know you have this real hatred for him, but he had a higher OPS+ than Matsui last year, and they have the same career OPS+. That's with Posada catching. Come on, lets be fair about this.

I don't hate Posada. I love his bat as a catcher. I f***ing despise him for his defense. Matsui was hurt for a lot longer, and from what I've seen over the years, Matsui hits good pitching better than Posada. Question: Game on the line, two on, two out, Yankees down 4-3 in the ninth in a playoff game, who'd you rather have up?

Finally, you talk about versatility, well, bringing Matsui back severely hampers that versatility. I think an effort needs to be made, immediately, to preserve Posada, A-Rod, and even Jeter (he is obviously going to re-sign) for the duration of their contracts or future contracts. This effort cannot really be made if Matsui is back.

 

There is a misconception that you need a player to play every game. What's wrong with giving Matsui a day off against a tough lefty? What if one of the aforementioned players gets injured? Then you don't have a DH. Matsui is a given, a known, and will come very cheap considering the market. He's had success, he's had success in the post-season, he wants to come back, and there aren't many other options that can be had as cheap as well as for a short duration.

 

Signing Matsui and Damon to long term deals is folly. Signing them to one year deals is perfect. This allows the Yankees to bring up their young players or sign good ones as they become available. Long term contracts hamstring teams. Look at what we had to endure with Giambi and Pavano.

 

If we can get them on a year to year basis, by all means, we should. Lock up the star players for years, the CC's and the Tex's, and go year to year with the Matsui's and the Damon's and the Swisher's and the Cabrera's. That would be my call.

[yankees228]

I like the Yankees' chances to make the playoffs, but it's hardly a given, especially because we don't even know what each team is going to look like come Spring Training.

 

As for Cano, he has had one great postseason series, one very good series, one decent series, and three bad series. It's not like he can't hit in the postseason. Regardless, I think they need to give him a chance to fill out his potential. You're talking about him as if you know exactly what he is going to be years from now. Yes, he can struggle against good pitching, but I think the Yankees need to give him a chance to become more patient, and that should help against good pitching. Like I said, his leverage splits this year were ridiculous. There is a decent chance that those will turn around, and, if that happens, you won't mind him hitting fifth.

 

Now, I think the money for Matsui can be spent much more wisely. Lets look at what he'll do for them this year. He can't play the field, so that diminishes his value immediately. He won't start all nine games that they play in an NL park. If you look to give guys like Posada, A-Rod, Jeter, and Damon (if they bring him back) time at DH, Matsui might be sitting out three games a week. In my opinion, it's not worth it.

 

In terms of the one year thing, I agree, but I feel like someone, if it's not the Yankees, is going to give Damon a two year deal. According to fangraphs (based on WAR), Damon was worth 16.4 million dollars in 2008 and 13.6 million dollars in 2009. It's very realistic, even in this market, to thing that he is going to receive a two years deal that pays anywhere from 16 to 20 million dollars.

 

*Unrelated note: Thanks to E1 for pointing out the dollar values on fangraphs. I've used fangraphs in the past, but, for whatever reason, I never noticed that. It's very helpful.

[Gom]

That value is a waste of time. It's arbitrary.

 

Abreu was worth $11.1 million. Why did he sign for two years, 19 million then?

 

You'll be able to sign Matsui for 7-9 million for one year. Why not? I absolutely would not give him more than a one year deal, but for 25+ homers, a 280+ average, and the ability to perform in the post-season? No brainer.

[yankees228]

Well, I think a little bit more of the values than you do, but, if you look, I said Damon will command anywhere from 8 to 10 million a year (less than what fangraphs has him at over the previous two seasons).

 

I see the value to signing Matsui, and if the Yankees did that, I wouldn't be upset (as long as it for the contract you're suggesting). However, I also see the value in not bring him back, for the reasons I already mentioned, and I think the Yankees need to look into that. If they bring him back, and he's hitting, they're not going to want to start taking up to ten ABs away from him each week. That would mean less rest for guys like A-Rod, Posada, Jeter, and Damon, and I don't think that's good, not only for 2010, but for the future of the club.

[26 to 6]

Yankees made a BIG splash today in signing OF Jon Weber to a minor league deal with a ST invite

 

Reported by ken Davidoff via his twitter account

 

This winter he's been playing for Venados de Mazatlan of the Mexican Winter League. In 15 games he's hitting .455/.471/.682 with 3 HR and 19 RBI. This past season he played in 117 games for the Durham Bulls (TB AAA) and hit .302/.382/.497 with 14 HR and 69 RBI.

 

Offseason has been slow thus far... lol

[26 to 6]

Former Padres GM Kevin Towers may be close to joining the Yankees as an adviser.

 

Kevin Towers, fired last month as the Padres' general manager, told ESPN that he will meet with the Yankees, Mets, Red Sox and Mariners at the winter meetings in Indianapolis and decide which team to join - in an advisory role - shortly after.

 

The odds favor the Yankees to land Towers, 48, who is widely respected throughout the industry for the job he did in San Diego. Yankees general manager Brian Cashman has a very close friendship with Towers, and Towers is on record that he'd like to join an American League club so he'd be better prepared for GM openings in either league.

 

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ex-padres-gm-towers-could-join-yankees-as-adviser-1.1624374

[jacksonianmarch]

The Blue Jays like Phil Hughes and Jesus Montero? No, really? DO NOT MAKE THAT DEAL. Sign Lackey and end this whole discussion

[26 to 6]

I agree. They want Montero and either Hughes or Joba. While I feel that is certainly a fair return for Halladay, I think I would rather hang onto our young guys. I think the biggest win for us in the whole Halladay ordeal would be if he were traded to an NL team.

[jacksonianmarch]

Jim Bowden says that NY should deal Joba, Kennedy, and Gardner for Halladay. Assuming we could lock him up, I would do that, although I dont think it will be enough for Toronto. I would not deal Hughes since I think he is better suited for starting long term and I think he will be dynamite. But in no way, shape, or form would I deal Joba or Hughes with Montero. That's stupid. Give them one top notch pitching stud and then some other parts. But they dont get a combo of two all world prospects

[riverside sluggers]

Never trust a man when it looks like he bought his tie at the gift shop, after seeing Joseph and the Technicolor Dream Coat

[26 to 6]

No way Joba, Kennedy, and Gardner gets it done for Toronto, although I would have no problem trading either Kennedy or Gardner for Halladay. I might consider Kennedy, Gardner, Montero, and another young arm; but but no way I send more than one of Hughes, Joba, and Montero.

[yankees228]

I'm sure I'm not alone, but I cannot wait for the Winter Meetings to start.

[jacksonianmarch]

No way Joba' date=' Kennedy, and Gardner gets it done for Toronto, although I would have no problem trading either Kennedy or Gardner for Halladay. I might consider Kennedy, Gardner, Montero, and another young arm; but but no way I send more than one of Hughes, Joba, and Montero.[/quote']

 

I would not deal Hughes or Montero to be honest with you. Joba has now slipped into tradeable for the right price level, IMO. He's now had 2+ yrs of service time and we are still confused about his status, so he should be a valuable rotation piece in the future, IMO, but he might not be much of a "bargain" per se. He'll be arb eligible by the time he starts setting in.

[a700hitter]

The Yankees won the Championship. They will not have the desperation they have had in past offseasons. I don't expect them to do much. Maybe they swap out Damon for Bay or Holliday, but I honestly don't think that would improve their team.

[26 to 6]

I'm sure I'm not alone' date=' but I cannot wait for the Winter Meetings to start.[/quote']

Neither can I. IMO from the Winter Meetings until Spring Training is the most exciting time of the baseball year.

 

I would not deal Hughes or Montero to be honest with you. Joba has now slipped into tradeable for the right price level, IMO. He's now had 2+ yrs of service time and we are still confused about his status, so he should be a valuable rotation piece in the future, IMO, but he might not be much of a "bargain" per se. He'll be arb eligible by the time he starts setting in.

I agree that I would rather trade Joba than Hughes, absolutely. I only say I'd be willing to trade Montero without either of them because of our catching depth and his questionable projections. But like I said originally, I would prefer to just keep them all, and let Halladay go to an NL team or something.

[Imperial59]

Jim Bowden says that NY should deal Joba' date=' Kennedy, and Gardner for Halladay. Assuming we could lock him up, I would do that, although I dont think it will be enough for Toronto. I would not deal Hughes since I think he is better suited for starting long term and I think he will be dynamite. But in no way, shape, or form would I deal Joba or Hughes with Montero. That's stupid. Give them one top notch pitching stud and then some other parts. But they dont get a combo of two all world prospects[/quote']

 

It's gonna take a lot more than a set up guy/shaky starter, a 6th starter and a backup CF to trade for Halladay.

 

That's like expecting the Jays to trade Halladay for Clay Buchholz, Michael Bowden and Josh Reddick.