Official 2009-2010 Hot Stove season thread

[bsox0407]

Hey' date=' be nice. The "being an *******" duties for the site are covered extremely well by me. [/quote']

 

i can agree with that. j/k

[Red Foreman]

They formed a pretty good rapport.

 

If you'll notice, V-Mart sort of became Buch's "Personal catcher" after his arrival to Boston.

 

I know that but I was just curious what the poster thinks Martinez did that Tek couldn't.

[Dipre]

I know that but I was just curious what the poster thinks Martinez did that Tek couldn't.

 

Buch likes pitching to him, and gets good results doing so. No other reason needed.

[Red Foreman]

Do you actually follow the team?

 

Yes... Just curious what you think Martinez did for Clay that Tek didn't.

[BSN07]

Yes... Just curious what you think Martinez did for Clay that Tek didn't.

 

Martinez let's Buchholz call his own game and pitch the way he wants to. Tek did not, and Buchholz became flustered an unfocused on the mound.

 

It's not something you can look at on a stat sheet and see, it's more of something you witness while watching the game, hence my comment asking if you follow the team. A casual fan would probably not notice this type of thing. Not saying being a casual fan is bad, or your not a fan because you don't watch every game or anything like that.

 

Another personal theory of mine is that Clay either has OCD or has OCD like tendencies. I have OCD and it is easy to spot someone else who has "symptoms" as it were. The whole throwing over to 1B with a runner standing on the bag is a prime example. V-Mart seems to recognize these situations and seems to be very good at getting Clay to refocus his attention back to the game. Having someone that is capable of doing that creates a certain confidence. And when a Pitcher with Clay's ability has confidence, he will be very good.

 

I have no proof, it's just a theory.

[example1]

Another personal theory of mine is that Clay either has OCD or has OCD like tendencies. I have OCD and it is easy to spot someone else who has "symptoms" as it were. The whole throwing over to 1B with a runner standing on the bag is a prime example. V-Mart seems to recognize these situations and seems to be very good at getting Clay to refocus his attention back to the game. Having someone that is capable of doing that creates a certain confidence. And when a Pitcher with Clay's ability has confidence, he will be very good.

 

I have no proof, it's just a theory.

 

If Clay had OCD I imagine we would see it in other areas... other particularities that he has. I haven't noticed anything. Have you? It's only officially a clinical "disorder" if it gets in the way of his life. I haven't heard of other things that he's particular about (say, washing his hand 30 times before leaving the clubhouse and missing the warmups)... I digress... Perhaps some anxious tendencies, if anything.

 

My theory has always been that Clay has bad peripheral vision and simply can't see the man leading off of 1B the way other pitchers do. That's clearly the case. He wouldn't throw to 1B if the guy isn't leading off, unless he can't tell. An easy-ish way around that would be to have the catcher call picks at 1B. At least that way he won't throw over when the guy is standing on the base or when the 1B isn't paying attention.

[yankees228]

If Clay had OCD I imagine we would see it in other areas... other particularities that he has. I haven't noticed anything. Have you? It's only officially a clinical "disorder" if it gets in the way of his life. I haven't heard of other things that he's particular about (say, washing his hand 30 times before leaving the clubhouse and missing the warmups)... I digress... Perhaps some anxious tendencies, if anything.

 

My theory has always been that Clay has bad peripheral vision and simply can't see the man leading off of 1B the way other pitchers do. That's clearly the case. He wouldn't throw to 1B if the guy isn't leading off, unless he can't tell. An easy-ish way around that would be to have the catcher call picks at 1B. At least that way he won't throw over when the guy is standing on the base or when the 1B isn't paying attention.

 

The Red Sox catcher doesn't receive the sign to throw over to first from the dugout?

[example1]

The Red Sox catcher doesn't receive the sign to throw over to first from the dugout?

 

They very well might. I just think Clay needs to not spend time looking into the dugout or worrying about runners on base.

 

Buchholz actually has a stellar move. I know it is one of his obvious weak points right now, but he has really good feet and is very quick. His pickoff is actually good for a right hander. He just does it too often and when it isn't necessary; I'm confident that game management is one of the things that all great pitchers eventually learn.

[yankees228]

They very well might. I just think Clay needs to not spend time looking into the dugout or worrying about runners on base.

 

Buchholz actually has a stellar move. I know it is one of his obvious weak points right now, but he has really good feet and is very quick. His pickoff is actually good for a right hander. He just does it too often and when it isn't necessary; I'm confident that game management is one of the things that all great pitchers eventually learn.

 

That's fair, I just think it's very unlikely that Clay, or any pitcher for that matter, is deciding when to throw over to first. In today's game, based on my observations, which are obviously fallible, I feel like one of the bigger myths is that pitchers themselves are deciding when to throw to first.

 

I base this statement on the fact that, anytime I've ever seen a shot of the catcher's signs with a runner on base, his sign always dictates what the pitcher does.

 

-Thumb out = throw to first

-Fist = pitch out

-Other finger signs or touching of thighs, shoulders, knees, chest protecter, etc. = some type of pitch

[Lester82]

um, can't wait till there is actual hot stove news

[yankees228]

um' date=' can't wait till there is actual hot stove news[/quote']

 

Probably going to have to wait a couple weeks, for the winter meetings to start, before that real news starts to be made.

[Gom]

Longer than that. I don't expect any of the big names to go before January. Tough economic times.

[example1]

That's fair, I just think it's very unlikely that Clay, or any pitcher for that matter, is deciding when to throw over to first. In today's game, based on my observations, which are obviously fallible, I feel like one of the bigger myths is that pitchers themselves are deciding when to throw to first.

 

I base this statement on the fact that, anytime I've ever seen a shot of the catcher's signs with a runner on base, his sign always dictates what the pitcher does.

 

-Thumb out = throw to first

-Fist = pitch out

-Other finger signs or touching of thighs, shoulders, knees, chest protecter, etc. = some type of pitch

 

Thumb out = throw to first, but that's not the only time a pitcher throws to first. I'm very confident about that. One seemingly obvious example was Buchholz throwing to first numerous times while guys were still standing on the base. The catcher most certainly did not tell him to do that.

[yankees228]

Thumb out = throw to first' date=' but that's not the only time a pitcher throws to first. I'm very confident about that. One seemingly obvious example was Buchholz throwing to first numerous times while guys were still standing on the base. The catcher most certainly did not tell him to do that.[/quote']

 

I can't comment on Buchholz, simply because I haven't seen him pitch enough times, but maybe he is a rare case. In terms of the Yankees, all the throws to first seem very calculated, and I don't think the pitchers are making the decisions. Only reason I'm citing the Yankees is because they're the team I watch more than others.

[redsoxrevenge]

I can't see the Yankees going after Holliday. It doesn't make sense' date=' not with next year, having Mauer, Crawford, Dunn, Beckett, Lee, and Halladay as free agents. This is another reason why the Red Sox won't spend as much. I think that Mauer is the real prize. I would think both teams would prime themselves for next year. If the Sox go balls to the wall, you're basically giving the Yankees one or two of these next year without them breaking a sweat.[/quote']

 

Being stuck with Victor Martinez wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

[Lester82]

If the Sox go balls to the wall, you're basically giving the Yankees one or two of these next year without them breaking a sweat.

 

The Yankees already come in at the last minute as the highest bidder, even when the Red Sox bid 170 freakin' million U.S. dollars for some guy named Teixeira, the Yankees bid 180.

 

It must be tough to be Brian Cashman . . . anyway, the Yankees are always going to spend without breaking a sweat. Whether the Red Sox go balls to the wall this offseason or next.

[Red Foreman]

The Red Sox catcher doesn't receive the sign to throw over to first from the dugout?

 

 

Do you think Pettitte waits for a sign?

[yankees228]

Do you think Pettitte waits for a sign?

 

Well, I was going to mention him as an exception, only because he falls under the short list of pitchers that has an actual chance for a pickoff. I'm not sure though.

[Lester82]

I hope like some people think, Mauer just ends up staying with his hometown team.

 

Then we will have one less name to read in Yankee fans' wet dreams for 2010.

 

"OMG, Cash is gonna sign at least three of CRAWFORD, HALLADAY, LEE, BECKETT, MAUER..."

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but it is mostly Yankee fans absolutely giddy about 2010-2011 as being another 2008-09 type of offseason for their Yankees.

[example1]

Well' date=' I was going to mention him as an exception, only because he falls under the short list of pitchers that has an actual chance for a pickoff. I'm not sure though.[/quote']

 

I'm pretty sure most pitchers have the freedom to try pickoffs.

 

In my experience, the catcher tends to call for a pickoff with some relief pitchers, runners the catcher is specifically trying to keep close, and with pitchers who may tend to overlook attending to the runner. I think any starting pitcher in baseball has the ability and freedom to attempt pickoffs at will.

 

Otherwise, what would keep the runner from just getting a walking lead once the pitcher is set and no longer taking signs?

[Lester82]

Miguel Cabrera :

 

http://www.detnews.com/article/20091124/SPORTS0104/911240336/1265/SPORTS08/Miguel-Cabrera-joins-Tigers--trade-talks

 

 

Don't want to give up Buchholz in the deal, if that is a deal-breaker, so be it.

[BSN07]

Thumb out = throw to first' date=' but that's not the only time a pitcher throws to first. I'm very confident about that. [b'] One seemingly obvious example was Buchholz throwing to first numerous times while guys were still standing on the base[/b]. The catcher most certainly did not tell him to do that.

 

These are the episodes I am talking about. You notice how "ticky" and anxious he get's until he throw is over to 1B? Even when there is no logical reason to do it. And did you notice how quick Farrell and or V-Mart got to the mound after these episodes,( once I believe the team finally realized that these were the moments during which Clay tended to "lose it")?

 

Maybe you don't see it because you don't know what to look for. And I'm not saying that as a bad thing or that your not smart or anything like that.

 

Trust me when I say that people with OCD are the absolute very best at spotting other people with OCD. I don't if he knows it yet, or if the team does or both are oblivious. Or maybe they know and they rather something like this really not make it public. Could put a red flag on him. Similar to Grienke and his social anxiety. Still most teams would trade for him, but there would be some measurable concern with him no?

 

But believe me, you put Clay and Farrell in front of a Shrink, say "hey doc, we got this young kid here, all the talent in the world. But we have an issue with him. He will cruise along with no problems, seemingly calm as can be, but as soon as a runner gets on something changes(sometimes not always). He becomes anxious, and throws over to 1B, even when we don't tell him to, and a lot of the time when the runner is physically standing on the bag. Really at the most illogical times.And if he doesn't do it he becomes even more flustered and really loses focus. And we can't figure out why he does it or why it has this effect on him. I guarantee the very first avenue the shrink will explore is OCD.

 

Listen, like I said it's personal view of mine. I'm just trying to explain what I see. I'm not going to have any issue with someone who may think I'm wrong. Totally understandable.

[BSN07]

Miguel Cabrera :

 

http://www.detnews.com/article/20091124/SPORTS0104/911240336/1265/SPORTS08/Miguel-Cabrera-joins-Tigers--trade-talks

 

 

Don't want to give up Buchholz in the deal, if that is a deal-breaker, so be it.

 

If they are seriously considering Miggy, I would offer taking on Magglio's contract. I really don't see them dealing Buchholz for anyone outside of Felix. I don't see him them trading him for a hitter.

 

If the Sox are taking on both contracts, the cost in prospects should be less. $+Prospects(3).

 

A package of SP/1B/OF and maybe throw in a Catcher to sweeten the pot.

[ORS]

Do you think Pettitte waits for a sign?

He doesn't need a sign from the dugout. Continually getting away with his balk is enough of a deterent to slow down the running game against him.

[BSN07]

He doesn't need a sign from the dugout. Continually getting away with his balk is enough of a deterent to slow down the running game against him.

 

[a700hitter]

He doesn't need a sign from the dugout. Continually getting away with his balk is enough of a deterent to slow down the running game against him.

His balk move is ridiculous. His front foot comes toward home plate all the time and it is never called. Also, when he goes into his kick, the front foot often crosses behind the rubber and then moves forward across the rubber. That is a clear balk. I was so happy to see the prick get burned when Ellsbury stole home. I was at that game. It was one of the most exciting plays that i have ever seen in person. I was sitting upstairs in the Pavilion seats on the 3rd base line and I was looking at Ellsbury when he made his break. I was like WTF! It was really like the best seat in the house to see that play, because the seats feel like they are hanging over 3B and it's like you get to look right down the 3B line.

[a700hitter]

From today's Boston Globe:

 

John Lackey could be a key figure in both teams’ plans. If the Sox acquire him, it would allow them to package Clay Buchholz in a deal for Adrian Gonzalez or Miguel Cabrera, if he becomes available. Buchholz is the chip most teams want in a megadeal.

If the Sox make a big deal to upgrade the offense or pitching, it will probably be at the cost of Buchholz.

 

Kotchman is likely to go too as there is no spot for him with the Sox. I don't hthink they get much for him, and if there are no takers, I could see the Sox cutting him lose to find a team where he could play.

 

John Lackey could be a key figure in both teams’ plans. If the Sox acquire him, it would allow them to package Clay Buchholz in a deal for Adrian Gonzalez or Miguel Cabrera, if he becomes available. Buchholz is the chip most teams want in a megadeal.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2009/11/22/ever_confident_sheffield_game_for_a_comeback/?page=1

[Dojji]

There's plenty of ways to get Cabrera without dealing Buchholz. The Tigers would have to be very interested in Dan Bard, considering the state of their pen and if you add Lars Anderson or Anthony Rizzo to that deal you are off to a very good start.

[a700hitter]

There's plenty of ways to get Cabrera without dealing Buchholz. The Tigers would have to be very interested in Dan Bard' date=' considering the state of their pen and if you add Lars Anderson or Anthony Rizzo to that deal you are off to a very good start.[/quote']Agreed with regard to Cabrera, but he is a pig, and I don't think the FO needs or wants his baggage. You can't hide his glove, and we have a DH. Buchholz would be part of the asking price for Adrian Gonzalez or Felix-- the more likely targets of the FO.

[Dojji]

Last time he played there, Cabrera was no worse in LF than Bay. Believe me, you can hide his glove.