Grade Theo's Trade Deadline

[a700hitter]

Roberts was Glovey McNoodlebat extreme. At least if Duncan comes up' date=' we have a chance to get some offensive production of him.[/quote']He was a much more well-rounded OF than Anderson or Duncan (who is a first baseman). He was an above average fielder. Over 10 years he hit .266 with a .342 OBP which is pretty good coming off the bench. Plus, he had a huge weapon in his speed.

 

OR' date=' maybe if Drew goes down, we could slide Youkilis to the outfield (though I don't know if he's played RF before, I know he's been in left), and insert one of the many players on this team who can play first, and insert him there.[/quote']Let's hope that doesn't happen.

 

VMart is an excellent hitter. Getting him will not hurt the team. He will help this team, but the FO did not address the bigger needs that they have: Starting Pitching, SS, OF. In addition, they weakened the bullpen.

[MNSoxChief102]

The entire trading period was a stroke of genius on Theo's part IMO...

 

We gained a plus bat in VMart, added defense and contract control with Kotchman, and still have all of our top arms in the organization. I was surprised to see us flip LaRoche like that, but I'll take Kotchman's age, cost, and contract everyday over watching LaRoche leave in November.

 

Yes I liked Masterson... his attitude was awesome and he was a major help last fall. But to be honest, he was never going to be a frontline starter in Boston. Maybe a 4 or a 5, but those guys can be found elsewhere, whereas a productive bat like Martinez cannot.

[Rdsxmbnt]

 

VMart is an excellent hitter. Getting him will not hurt the team. He will help this team, but the FO did not address the bigger needs that they have: Starting Pitching, SS, OF. In addition, they weakened the bullpen.

 

With Halladay as the only major SP target out there (outside of Lee) there wasn't a whole lot to fall back on unless you wanted to take a chance on an injured Peavy or Washburn. I know you'd make the trade but Buchholz/Bard+ price was way too steep and I don't no how you can't question that if you've watched the past two weeks of baseball.

 

As for SS, the organization has faith in Lowrie and for good reason. He hit .258/.339/.400/.739 last year in his rookie year and has been fairly highly regarded as a prospects. I don't think the FO is going to let 23 AB since his return affect any judgment on his playing ability.

 

And OF, there is no Dave Roberts out there. They acquired necessary depth guys in case something happens and I don't think you can ask for much more.

[schillingouttheks]

Just for the record, not saying they would have been able to do it obviously, but the Sox were talking to Seattle about Felix Hernandez. They were 1 of 6 teams doing so, I believe, per NESN during their trade deadline coverage.

[a700hitter]

With Halladay as the only major SP target out there (outside of Lee) there wasn't a whole lot to fall back on unless you wanted to take a chance on an injured Peavy or Washburn. I know you'd make the trade but Buchholz/Bard+ price was way too steep and I don't no how you can't question that if you've watched the past two weeks of baseball.

 

As for SS, the organization has faith in Lowrie and for good reason. He hit .258/.339/.400/.739 last year in his rookie year and has been fairly highly regarded as a prospects. I don't think the FO is going to let 23 AB since his return affect any judgment on his playing ability.

 

And OF, there is no Dave Roberts out there. They acquired necessary depth guys in case something happens and I don't think you can ask for much more.

We are covered at 1B. I'll give you that. I don't think first base is a tough position to acquire depth.

[CrespoBlows]

Missed on Halladay if the real offer was Buchholz, Bowden, and Westmoreland.

 

C, for not getting a starting pitcher.

[Looch Ness Monster]

We added

Victor Martinez

Chris Duncan

Casey Kotchman

Brian Anderson

 

We lost

Julio Lugo

Justin Masterson

Bryan Price

Nick Hagadone

Argenis Diaz

Hunter Strickland

Mark Kotsay

 

What I take out of this: We got the best player out of the whole bunch in Victor Martinez and we dumped dead weight in Julio Lugo as well as our 2007 1st round pick and our 2008 sandwich 1st round pick..which is kind of disappointing. We did however not lose much on our 25-man roster and essentially replaced George Kottares with Victor Martinez. (I excluded LaRoche because we didn't really "lose" him) And I bolded Major League players.

 

Solid B from me. Still feel like we need to somehow acquire a SP during the waiver wire period though.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Missed on Halladay if the real offer was Buchholz, Bowden, and Westmoreland.

 

C, for not getting a starting pitcher.

Blue Jays wanted Buchholz, Bard and more...

[Dipre]

Missed on Halladay if the real offer was Buchholz, Bowden, and Westmoreland.

 

C, for not getting a starting pitcher.

 

According to reports, Blue Jays wanted Buch, Bard, Wester and another prospect.

[VA Sox Fan]

Epstein's thoughts after deadline day

 

Posted by Chris Forsberg, Boston.com Staff July 31, 2009 05:47 PM

 

Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein is holding a conference call with the media to talk about today's roster moves. Here's some quick highlights (check out the audio player below to hear highlights from the conference call):

 

Epstein on deadline day moves

 

On Victor Martinez: "We think Victor Martinez is a great fit for our club and provides a significant offensive boost and does it with some versatility that compliments our roster well. He can catch, give [Jason Varitek] some rest; he can play first base; DH a little bit. He's a good fit for our roster and provides offensive support and depth at the same time."

 

On pursuing a starting pitcher: "We were involved with some talk that could have led to some pretty good starting pitchers coming available, but it didn't turn out that way. I don't think you'll see much impactful starting pitching available in August, but we like our pitching staff... We have to do a better job than we've done lately."

 

Later, Epstein said the team had been excited about some trade talks earlier in the week, but, while things got close, they didn't come to fruition. He hinted there were some deals that would have sent away "five or six prospects." Epstein said the team was "very aggressive with the use of our own prospects" and that potential deals could be revisited in the offseason.

 

More to come

[witty_alias]

With V-Mart and Tek ( and excuse me if this is a stupid ? ) how will we split time?

 

Just looking for your guys thoughts on this one.

 

How do we keep them both happy? Will there be any consistency in this lineup?

[a700hitter]

With V-Mart and Tek ( and excuse me if this is a stupid ? ) how will we split time?

 

Just looking for your guys thoughts on this one.

 

How do we keep them both happy? Will there be any consistency in this lineup?

What! You are questioning how VMart will be used? This is obviously a great move. Everyone is saying so. So what that we already have an All Star first basemen with a good back up and a gold glove third baseman who gets backed up by our All Star first baseman. So what that we have a starting catcher and Papi at DH. This is a fantastic move. Whether you sit Papi, Youkilis, Lowell or Tek, VMart is much better than any of them. Of course, I am being sarcastic. Drew has come up with one of those injuries which might linger, but we don't have a productive OF who can fill in for a couple or three games in a row. We don't have a major league SS, and we have 3 SP's that can't go more than 5. Big improvement.

[witty_alias]

What! You are questioning how VMart will be used? This is obviously a great move. Everyone is saying so. So what that we already have an All Star first basemen with a good back up and a gold glove third baseman who gets backed up by our All Star first baseman. So what that we have a starting catcher and Papi at DH. This is a fantastic move. Whether you sit Papi' date=' Youkilis, Lowell or Tek, VMart is much better than any of them. Of course, I am being sarcastic. Drew has come up with one of those injuries which might linger, but we don't have a productive OF who can fill in for a couple or three games in a row. We don't have a major league SS, and we have 3 SP's that can't go more than 5. Big improvement.[/quote']

 

Ding,Ding, Ding, exactly what are the working parts of this machine going to be?

[a700hitter]

Ding' date='Ding, Ding, exactly what are the working parts of this machine going to be?[/quote']It doesn't matter. The important thing is that we didn't have to trade Bard or Buchholz. It doesn't matter that the Yankees are the better team and nothing was done to help the Sox catch and beat the Yankees. When VMart plays at a postion other than catcher, we will be forced to sit one of our big bats.

[witty_alias]

It doesn't matter. The important thing is that we didn't have to trade Bard or Buchholz. It doesn't matter that the Yankees are the better team and nothing was done to help the Sox catch and beat the Yankees. When VMart plays at a postion other than catcher' date=' we will be forced to sit one of our big bats.[/quote']

 

EXACTLY....everything is roses...right?

[example1]

It doesn't matter. The important thing is that we didn't have to trade Bard or Buchholz. It doesn't matter that the Yankees are the better team and nothing was done to help the Sox catch and beat the Yankees. When VMart plays at a postion other than catcher' date=' we will be forced to sit one of our big bats.[/quote']

 

Lowell isn't a big bat. He's an aging, less effective bat whose .334 OBP this year is really unproductive. His glove has been mediocre and he's injury prone.

 

Lineup possibilities:

 

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Youkilis

Ortiz

Bay

Drew

Martinez

Lowrie

Varitek

 

or

 

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Youkilis

Ortiz

Bay

Drew

Martinez

Lowell

Lowrie

 

Victor Martinez should start just about every day for this team, like Youkilis, either at 1B or C. He's a guy who is capable of hitting 20/100 and has been a feared hitter in Cleveland's lineup.

 

The best thing is that he cost them NO important pieces. Why is that important? Either those players will be very good for this team (which I think Buchholz will) or they will be discussed NEXT year as potential pieces for a big trade again. We still have Bowden, Bard, Tazawa, Kelly, Buchholz, Anderson, Reddick, Kalish, Westmoreland, etc., so this team ought to be competitive for a few years to come.

 

Martinez is a really good player and I'm glad they've got him. Obviously I would have been more excited about a Roy Halladay or Adrian Gonzalez deal, but I also think that Buchholz will be an impact SP for many years.

[a700hitter]

Are you watching the garbage that Smoltz is giving us? He's managed to raise his 7.03 ERA already tonight. Penny sucks, and Buchholz has shown nothing. Halladay was the move. If all they wanted was Buchholz and Bard, he should have done it.

[a700hitter]

Lowell isn't a big bat.

He isn't? Lowell's OPS is .821 this season compared to VMart's .832. Lowell's Slugging % is higher. Is this a huge upgrade? I don't think so.

[jacksonianmarch]

VMart's arrival basically guarantees VTek is gone after the yr. Just like the yankees, though, they did not fill their biggest need in the rotation

[example1]

He isn't? Lowell's OPS is .821 this season compared to VMart's .832. Lowell's Slugging % is higher. Is this a huge upgrade? I don't think so.

 

Martinez is 5 years younger and his a career line that roughly resembles Dustin Pedroia in terms of both OBP and SLG

 

[table] Career 162 G AVGs | AVG | OBP | SLG | OPS | HR | RBI |

Martinez | .297 | .369 | .463 | .832 | 20 | 103 |

Pedroia | .310 | .370 | .450 | .820 | 12 | 70 |

Lowell | .280 | .343 | .468 | .811 | 23 | 98 | [/table]

 

 

Furthermore, their difference in OBP is significant this year and OBP is much more important than SLG. Lowell's SLG at home has been .572 compared to .413 on the road. Fenway helps most hitters produce, but it really helps Lowell. VMart has a .913 career OPS at Fenway.

 

I guess I simply can't see how this is a bad move at all. They traded their most tradable (not valuable, but expendable) young pitching piece, and two arms that probably were never going to see Fenway, to get a 30 year old, 3 time all star who was the 2nd most valuable player offensive player on his team (22.4 VORP). He can play 1B or C and can offer protection against injury to either Varitek or Lowell. In fact, he and Pedroia both have a 22.4 VORP this year.

 

I can't say I'm shocked that you're complaining a700, but I think any time you can add a bat that makes outs as difficultly as Pedroia you've helped your team.

[Cocos Disciples]

If that's the case, do we keep Lowell for 2010 or trade him and start Kotchman? Neither option is terribly appealing.

[TheKilo]

Missed on Halladay if the real offer was Buchholz, Bowden, and Westmoreland.

 

C, for not getting a starting pitcher.

 

That was shot down days ago.

[TheKilo]

What! You are questioning how VMart will be used? This is obviously a great move. Everyone is saying so. So what that we already have an All Star first basemen with a good back up and a gold glove third baseman who gets backed up by our All Star first baseman. So what that we have a starting catcher and Papi at DH. This is a fantastic move. Whether you sit Papi' date=' Youkilis, Lowell or Tek, VMart is much better than any of them. Of course, I am being sarcastic. Drew has come up with one of those injuries which might linger, but we don't have a productive OF who can fill in for a couple or three games in a row. [b']We don't have a major league SS[/b], and we have 3 SP's that can't go more than 5. Big improvement.

 

What happened to Lowrie being a "Mini-Manny"? Remember how you loved him last season?

 

You've turned on him with an even smaller sample size. Disappointing.

 

What OF should they have traded for? (I already know your answer - "I'm not in the FO so I don't know")

[TheKilo]

Are you watching the garbage that Smoltz is giving us? He's managed to raise his 7.03 ERA already tonight. Penny sucks' date=' and Buchholz has shown nothing. Halladay was the move. [b']If all they wanted was Buchholz and Bard, he should have done it.[/b]

 

THAT WAS NOT THE MOVE

[Dojji]

What OF should they have traded for?

 

Teahen. We definitely should have gotten Teahen. Something for everyone.

[TheKilo]

Teahen. We definitely should have gotten Teahen. Something for everyone.

 

Doesn't Teahen play 3B?

[Dojji]

it's more a question of where DOESN'T Teahen play.

 

Seriously, I'm fine with VMart. But from a simple standpoint of meeting as many needs as possible, I still think the guy was a great fit.

[yankeessuck013]

If that's the case' date=' do we keep Lowell for 2010 or trade him and start Kotchman? Neither option is terribly appealing.[/quote']

 

Maybe neither. We didn't give up any top prospects whereas we still have enough pieces left that we can go after a desirable corner IF or continue the pursuit of Adrian Gonzalez in the winter.

[Dojji]

Adrian Beltre

[a700hitter]

What happened to Lowrie being a "Mini-Manny"? Remember how you loved him last season?

 

You've turned on him with an even smaller sample size. Disappointing.

The guy hasn't been able to stay healthy. I like his bat, but I am not sure that he'll be at full strength until next season. I wouldn't mind getting O'Cab as insurance for Lowrie. We should have said thank you to Green and then DFA'd him.

 

What OF should they have traded for? (I already know your answer - "I'm not in the FO so I don't know")

There are lots of major league OFers, and im sure that a lot were available. I would prefer to have Kotsay instead of Kotchman at this point. Kotchman will get 0 playing time. kotsay could have played against Righties if an OF goes down. He's better option than a AA Outfielder.