Manny Ramirez Trade Deadline Thread (renamed)

[TheKilo]

Sox pay off the remainder of the salary too' date=' wow[/quote']

 

Considering Bay is only due $7.5 million next year this is still an improvement financiallyy for the Sox.

[Mr Crunchy]

knowing theo he probably got luis aparicio to play short for 25m per.

[The Dustball]

Bay is having just as good a season as your beloved Manny Ramirez.

 

This is a decent trade. Not a disaster many are painting it as.

 

So we get Bay, and then lost Manny, Hansen, Moss and 7 Million in cash just to get back the same production that Manny was giving us. Not good.

[User Name]

No' date=' he really isn't.[/quote']

 

Yes, yes he is. I'm almost offended you just said that.

 

The way this fanbase has turned on him is absolutely pathetic. If you aren't going to like him, at least respect his ability.

[TheKilo]

Honestly if it's Manny, Hansen, and Moss for Bay I will be so f***ing pissed at this team I won't know what to do with myself. I won't f***ing watch them for the rest of the season if this is true.

 

I wouldn't trade Manny for Bay. I would hardly trade the other two for Bay. I don't rate him at all. This is horse s***. f***ing horse s***. Pathetic trade.

 

Explain to me why this is, exactly.

 

You'll have to speak up though as I can't hear you over your incredible Manny bias.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Yes, yes he is. I'm almost offended you just said that.

 

The way this fanbase has turned on him is absolutely pathetic. If you aren't going to like him, at least respect his ability.

 

You are sporting the classic fanboy avatar, you know fwiw

[Cocos Disciples]

In neutral eyes, this trade deadline period (basically all of July), has been awesome. Manny, Bay, Sabathia, Teixeira, Harden, Blanton, Rauch, Nady, Marte, Pudge, Griffey, Blake. Crazy busy.

[castigs850]

No' date=' he really isn't.[/quote']

 

correct me if i'm wrong, I'm not going to bother to look because i want to get back to watching nesn. but werent you one of many saying manny straight up for bay and grabbow was a s***** deal?

[BoSox21]

they gave up a lot but I guess that just shows the desperation there was in getting rid of Manny

[TheKilo]

Yes, yes he is. I'm almost offended you just said that.

 

The way this fanbase has turned on him is absolutely pathetic. If you aren't going to like him, at least respect his ability.

 

Who's turning on who?

 

I'd rather be honest about Ramirez instead of completely ignore his defensive limitations (IE he's the worst defensive LF in the game) and paint him to be some uber-player he no longer is.

 

Face facts, folks. This is not the elite hitter he was from 95-2005.

[rician blast]

Horrible trade. Awful. Just terrible. What does this do. We need bulpen' date=' so lets give up Hansen. Theo is a bag of s***.[/quote']

 

 

No, Theo realized that Hansen is a bag of s***.

 

This deal is about more than just the stretch run, but in terms of the remainder of 2008, the FO must have had serious concern as to whether Manny would derail any chances of competing for a playoff spot.

[TheKilo]

correct me if i'm wrong' date=' I'm not going to bother to look because i want to get back to watching nesn. but werent you one of many saying manny straight up for bay and grabbow was a s***** deal?[/quote']

 

Find me the post. Don't believe I ever did.

[Fried Neckbones]

they gave up a lot but I guess that just shows the desperation there was in getting rid of Manny

 

I have a feeling that if this hadn't worked they would have offered him "the Favre" and paid him to just retire.

[MANNYHOF24]

Manny for Bay isnt a horrible deal. But no more players should have been added, unless we got something else in return. The Yankees got Marte and Nady for nothing.

[TheKilo]

http://www.talksox.com/forum/337769-post243.html

[The Dustball]

Our bullpen still sucks, Theo had plenty of time to bolster it and he did not.

[BoSox21]

I really believe in the addition by subtraction factor of this deal too

 

all that being said, I never thought I'd see the day Joe Torre would manage Manny

[TheKilo]

Manny for Bay isnt a horrible deal. But no more players should have been added' date=' unless we got something else in return. The Yankees got Marte and Nady for nothing.[/quote']

 

Jason Bay is much better than both of those players.

[Cocos Disciples]

I'm actually pretty stoked about this deal. I didn't think we would go anywhere this year if we kept Manny. I'm not saying we will now, but I like it.

[MANNYHOF24]

Who's turning on who?

 

I'd rather be honest about Ramirez instead of completely ignore his defensive limitations (IE he's the worst defensive LF in the game) and paint him to be some uber-player he no longer is.

 

Face facts, folks. This is not the elite hitter he was from 95-2005.

 

Yet he was one of the best statisitcal hitters this year. Bay isnt bad, but still its the fear factor that Manny and Ortiz puts into pitchers. Thats valuable, it always is. We will never see another David Ortiz Walk off homerun.

[TheKilo]

Masterson is the bullpen help, plus that can be gotten in August through waivers.

 

Aardsma is coming off the DL soon.

 

Moss is expendable.

 

What's the problem here?

[jacksonianmarch]

Well, this is the price of an extra yr.

 

Bay is a 29 yr old OFer capable of playing both corner OF spots and CF in a pinch. He has high OBP numbers as well as good power. He should experience a nice boost from playing in the Fens. Bay is due 9 mil or so next yr and then will be a FA. But wow, the sox are giving up a lot.

 

Once again, entire picture. And the entire picture starts with Manny. Manny has a 30 point OPS lead on Bay this season and both play in pretty favorable parks for righties. Manny has also proven to be a damn good hitter for the sox and a clutch one at that. He also proved to be a headache. Lets call the Manny for Bay move a wash for this yr. For next yr, one should assume that Manny and Bay would likely be heading into opposite directions, but not by much.

 

To be honest with you, in a perfect world without antics and only looking at performance, Manny and Bay are likely to perform equally until the end of 2009 which is when Bay's contract is up and they could have gotten him as a FA. The money standpoint is an issue as well. Bay is due 2 mil this yr and 9 next, so the total price is 11 mil just on Bay. Throw in the 7 mil the sox are paying for Manny and you have an 18 mil price to be paid for your left fielder. If Manny's option was picked up, he'd be owed 27 mil, so a savings of 9 mil.

 

For that savings of 9 mil and likely equal performance, the sox had to give up their 2005 #1 draft pick as well as one of their top outfield prospects (who has been killing the ball in AAA this yr). The draft pick haul from letting Manny walk is the same as it would be for letting Bay walk as well, so that is a wash.

 

 

So, this deal breaks down as such.

 

If Bay can continue to play like this in the spotlight of Boston, then the sox essentially are getting the same production through 2009 with less headaches. They essentially trades Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen for 9 million dollars.

[TheKilo]

Yet he was one of the best statisitcal hitters this year. Bay isnt bad' date=' but still its the fear factor that Manny and Ortiz puts into pitchers. Thats valuable, it always is. We will never see another David Ortiz Walk off homerun.[/quote']

 

I'd rather see games where the Sox win comfortably because of all around offense, defense, and pitching than rely on walkoff home runs.

 

"Fear factor"? Please.

[yeszir]

Yet he was one of the best statisitcal hitters this year. Bay isnt bad' date=' but still its the fear factor that Manny and Ortiz puts into pitchers. Thats valuable, it always is. We will never see another David Ortiz Walk off homerun.[/quote']

 

That's ridiculous and bold to say. The fact of the matter is that we have no idea how this will play out and we have the rest of the season to figure it out.

[The Dustball]

Do you think that they put Drew into the 3 hole or put Bay there?

[TheKilo]

Do you think that they put Drew into the 3 hole or put Bay there?

 

I'd say Bay to keel the LRLR thing going.

[jacksonianmarch]

This is a lateral move for this yr. Without the pen help, you guys are sunk. Aardsma isnt the answer in high leverage games and Masterson needs to be considered a RH specialist for the time being in high leverage spots. This trade, while helpful for the sox fiscally and in terms of the headache factor, does not address their primary need.

[yeszir]

Leave it to a Yankee fan to be the most rational person in this thread. Distance from the situation, I guess.

[MANNYHOF24]

I'd rather see games where the Sox win comfortably because of all around offense, defense, and pitching than rely on walkoff home runs.

 

"Fear factor"? Please.

 

How does this trade make the Red Sox an all around better team? It doesnt. Manny's defensive has rarely cost the Red Sox baseball games.

[The Dustball]

Maybe JHB can bring forth tons of stats that I've never heard of to make me feel better about this deal.