Mark Buehrle?

[schillingouttheks]

That wouldn't be the only thing leaking from me if Jessica Biel's bare ass was dancing infront of me...:thumbsup:

 

That's disgusting.

[BSN07]

That's disgusting.

 

But completely honest:D

[BillBuckner1986]

But completely honest:D

 

you should get that checked out.

[ksushi]

Ok, back on track? Mark Buehrle... yeah

[BSN07]

Hey guys heard something new, I know its from MLBtraderumors, but its siting another source. Says KW wants 2 top prospects and another player but might end up settling for one. It mentions the Dodgers, Mariners and another club as most interested. Then adds the Sox as being back in it in a deal that might send Lugo packing for Chicago... Anyone else hear this or know anything else?

[ksushi]

Sox are probably giving in on a Bowden/Ellsbury deal, but want them also to take Lugo. I'd be happy.

[Cocos Disciples]

As much as Lugo has disappointed this year, I don't think it's a good idea to trade him. Quite frankly, he's at the lowest of lows. He's under the mendoza line, and there is no way he could get worse than this. I see no point in selling low on this guy. If the White Sox are going to demand 2 of our top 3 prospects AND Lugo, I pass. Plus, I don't see Alex Cora as being a very effective every day player. He is a very good utility infielder, but I don't see much more out of him than that. I would love to have Buehrle, but I don't think it's worth it unless Williams lowers his demands.

[ksushi]

Cora plays far superior defense and can't hit worse than Lugo.

[schillingouttheks]

Bowden/Murphy or Moss/Lugo for Buehrle? I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'll drive them to Logan myself.

 

The Sox should throw all of the money from expiring contracts at A-Rod and finally stop the tryouts at SS.

[a700hitter]

As much as Lugo has disappointed this year' date=' I don't think it's a good idea to trade him. Quite frankly, he's at the lowest of lows. He's under the mendoza line, and there is no way he could get worse than this. I see no point in selling low on this guy. If the White Sox are going to demand 2 of our top 3 prospects AND Lugo, I pass. Plus, I don't see Alex Cora as being a very effective every day player. He is a very good utility infielder, but I don't see much more out of him than that. I would love to have Buehrle, but I don't think it's worth it unless Williams lowers his demands.[/quote']You are right. You never sell "low". I think Tavarez' stock is still pretty high despite his last couple of starts. Youkilis's and Lowell's stocks are very high. Youk's is higher because of his short service. Neither one will match his first half in the second half. Youk is not a .320 hitter and lowell is not a .300 hitter. Both are in the .260 to .280 range. I'd sell high on one of them. Pena's stock is in the toilet, but he has no place on the team. he needs to go. He has two selling points--- youth and tremendous power.

[ksushi]

I don't think they are selling low. I'm sorry, but if you can unload Lugo and get a frontline starting pitcher in the same deal... you do it. Jed Lowrie should be in AAA right now, Cora should be our SS and Lugo should be on the garbage heap. If we can send Lugo, Lester and Bowden or Lugo Lester and Ellsbury or any combination of those names to Chicago, Theo just acquired a big piece for the rotation and unloaded an offensive cancer. Good move.

[example1]

I don't think they are selling low. I'm sorry' date=' but if you can unload Lugo and get a frontline starting pitcher in the same deal... you do it. Jed Lowrie should be in AAA right now, Cora should be our SS and Lugo should be on the garbage heap. If we can send Lugo, Lester and Bowden or Lugo Lester and Ellsbury or any combination of those names to Chicago, Theo just acquired a big piece for the rotation and unloaded an offensive cancer. Good move.[/quote']

 

That's pretty funny K-sush. I thought you were serious there for a moment. Lugo, Lester and Bowden or Lugo, Lester and Ellsbury for Buehrle is WAY too much.

 

Those of you who think the Sox are looking to just get rid of Lugo's contract at this point have another thing coming. While this FO might hope to get something back for him, there is no way they are willing to let a guy with his tools just go for free with no alternative waiting. If they had a Pedroia/Ellsbury/Youkilis type prospect banging down the door at SS it would be different. Sorry, Lowrie isn't at that point yet given his average range and offensive skills.

 

Cora as Lugo's full-time replacement would be less than adequate. In 2567 career ABs Cora has been a .245/.311/.349 career hitter.

 

How come people are so sure that Lugo won't ascend to his career mean but Cora will keep coming through the way he has been? To me it seems that if you can't get a serious THIRD option then you stick with both Lugo and Cora. The money isn't an issue, as they were clearly willing to part with 9m a season for 4 years to keep Lugo. They aren't pressed for money at this point.

 

Again, if they find a deal that makes it worthwhile then I'm all for dealing Lugo. If he replaces a good prospect in a deal then that's fine. But they should not (and will not) just add him to a deal to get out from under his contract. As far as these things go they aren't spending a franchise-crippling amount of money on him (for the Red Sox' payroll). He is expensive and disappointing so far but he won't get gotten-rid of for nothing. They gave up Renteria for Crisp and Bard (ultimately), Orlando Cabrera's loss led to Jed Lowrie and Jacoby Ellsbury in the draft. They aren't going to give up Lugo for nothing. They are not in a desperate position compared to the White Sox.

 

If the White Sox don't want Bowden and Lugo (plus $?), or Bowden and WMP or Ellsbury and WMP for Mark Buerhle then screw it. Bring up Buchholz, add him to the rotation and watch as Bowden develops into a pitcher with better stuff than MB and Ellsbury becomes the centerpiece of the Sox offense in the next few years. They don't NEED Buerhle this year, but the White Sox NEED to do something with him. Don't rush into anything with our top 4 prospects.

[ksushi]

I would give up Lester and Ellsbury in a heart beat to get Mark Buehrle.

[ksushi]

Yeah, gotta agree about Lowrie. I liked him, but just looked up his fielding numbers and I was not aware how below average he was as far as getting to balls. His glove seems to be only decent too. But I don't know about these tools you're talking about from Lugo.

 

I think for the rest of this season I could more than live with Cora at SS.

[example1]

Yeah, gotta agree about Lowrie. I liked him, but just looked up his fielding numbers and I was not aware how below average he was as far as getting to balls. His glove seems to be only decent too. But I don't know about these tools you're talking about from Lugo.

 

I think for the rest of this season I could more than live with Cora at SS.

 

Maybe, but if Cora gets injured are you willing to live with Lowrie at SS, or Pedroia, or this year's Ricki Gutierriez acquired via trade.

 

All the players we have had at SS who have gone on to success didn't have very long sample sizes in Boston. I suggest we hold onto Lugo unless someone actively wants him as part of a trade. No matter what we would be dealing him without his true trade value being evident.

 

The tools I'm talking about from Lugo are, specifically, his range, his versitility, and his speed. He can play 2B, 3B or SS. I believe Cora can too, though I'm unsure how much 3B experience he has in his career. In any case, they are two very similar players: Lugo has far better speed, Cora is more consistent in the field, Lugo has higher upside at the plate and on the bases. Unless we look to get A-Rod (which would be sweet but won't happen) then I just see us looking to get another middle-infielder with plus defensive versitility and the ability to draw a walk and make some contact. Nothing too special, as evidenced by the number of players who have filled the roll over the past 5 years.

[riverside sluggers]

Considering I guess Sox are "talking about Lugo" with the White Sox in the Buehrle negotiations. I wonder if that would mean Uribe could be a part of that deal. Uribe like Buerhle is a free agent at the end of the season. Cora/Uribe at shortstop this year I could live with

[schillingouttheks]

Doesn't Uribe have a court case or something to deal with?

[riverside sluggers]

Oh, I thought it had been dismissed

[schillingouttheks]

I have no idea what happened to it. I was legitimately asking, lol.

[riverside sluggers]

Sorry

[example1]

I would give up Lester and Ellsbury in a heart beat to get Mark Buehrle.

 

So what do you see as their ceiling? Or, do you see Buehrle as the one player who will definitely put this team over the top? This is certainly debateable, so I won't tell you you're wrong. If you don't see a long or all-star career for Ellsbury or Lester then I could see your point.

 

I'm very unsure about Lester's career projections at this point. I guess he feels like a #2 on a smaller-market team when he's matured, or a #3 on a well run big market team. I don't see #1 starter from him. Of course, I don't see #1 starter from Buehrle's numbers either, but his results have been pretty impressive.

 

someone the other day made a comparison between Jacoby Ellsbury's plate approach and Derek Jeter's. While it is obviously very early to talk about ellsbury's career, I think that a player like him can turn into that cost-controlled mainstay for a generation of Red Sox. He has the charisma and flare that guys like Pedroia and Youkilis don't entirely have. He will quickly become a fan favorite and will provide years and years of runs and solid CF play if he sticks around. That's just my two-cents.

 

I understand the inclination to get a guy like MB. He's a great pitcher and could certainly put this team over the top. I just think one has to be very careful when trading away the top, most develop prospects in the system to make that happen. Getting to the playoffs is the hardest part, winning in the playoffs often comes down to how the team is playing when they get there and how the ball bounces in those particular games.

 

I would be inclined to try to get Buehrle with a couple of guys like Lester, Brandon Moss (who won't really get a chance in Boston anyway, but who has had 2 really good milb seasons), Aaron Bates, Lowrie, Craig Hansen, possibly even Manny Delcarmen.

 

Of course, a guy like Coco Crisp may be able to fill a big part of a deal too with his recent resurrgance.

[example1]

Considering I guess Sox are "talking about Lugo" with the White Sox in the Buehrle negotiations. I wonder if that would mean Uribe could be a part of that deal. Uribe like Buerhle is a free agent at the end of the season. Cora/Uribe at shortstop this year I could live with

 

This is from Mlbtraderumors.com, right? Isn't most of that stuff just garbage? I thought I remembered it that way...

[riverside sluggers]

So what do you see as their ceiling? Or, do you see Buehrle as the one player who will definitely put this team over the top? This is certainly debateable, so I won't tell you you're wrong. If you don't see a long or all-star career for Ellsbury or Lester then I could see your point.

 

I'm very unsure about Lester's career projections at this point. I guess he feels like a #2 on a smaller-market team when he's matured, or a #3 on a well run big market team. I don't see #1 starter from him. Of course, I don't see #1 starter from Buehrle's numbers either, but his results have been pretty impressive.

 

someone the other day made a comparison between Jacoby Ellsbury's plate approach and Derek Jeter's. While it is obviously very early to talk about ellsbury's career, I think that a player like him can turn into that cost-controlled mainstay for a generation of Red Sox. He has the charisma and flare that guys like Pedroia and Youkilis don't entirely have. He will quickly become a fan favorite and will provide years and years of runs and solid CF play if he sticks around. That's just my two-cents.

 

I understand the inclination to get a guy like MB. He's a great pitcher and could certainly put this team over the top. I just think one has to be very careful when trading away the top, most develop prospects in the system to make that happen. Getting to the playoffs is the hardest part, winning in the playoffs often comes down to how the team is playing when they get there and how the ball bounces in those particular games.

 

I would be inclined to try to get Buehrle with a couple of guys like Lester, Brandon Moss (who won't really get a chance in Boston anyway, but who has had 2 really good milb seasons), Aaron Bates, Lowrie, Craig Hansen, possibly even Manny Delcarmen.

 

Of course, a guy like Coco Crisp may be able to fill a big part of a deal too with his recent resurrgance.

 

Agree. Maybe if Buehrle agrees to sign a 4/5 year extension, Theo might be reluctant to give up Ellsbury... but youre most likely talking a 2 month rental here. Id rather them give up Ellsbury for a young top player with guaranteed long term control than a guy they wouldnt have a good chance of resigning the next offseason. A la Hanley for Beckett

 

This is from Mlbtraderumors.com, right? Isn't most of that stuff just garbage? I thought I remembered it that way...

 

Its coming from mlbtraderumors.com, but that came from Jayson Stark of ESPN. It wasnt just a fan writing in a trade rumor for fun. I did it last year, Rudy Seanez for Ryan Klesko

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Here is the way I see it.....Jonathan Papelbon, Kevin Youkilis, Dustin Pedroia, Jon Lester, Manny Delcarmen (has his moments), and Jacoby Ellsbury....all players I have been quite impressed with and have come up through the Red Sox system. These are all good players and we seem to be doing a great job down on the farm working with these kids (remember they are still kids and will continue to get much better).

 

Meanwhile JD Drew, Julio Lugo, Edgar Renteria, Coco Crisp (for a majority until recently)....many relievers over the past several seasons.....big free agent signings have been really hit or miss.

 

I'm not trading Jacoby Ellsbury. I think this farm system has come a long ways and we would be foolish to start dealing away key components to a very exciting and bright future of players who feel a sense of passion playing for the Red Sox.

 

I think that is the real key too....you can see it in Papelbon's eyes, the way Youkilis plays the game, and the smile Pedroia brings to the bench. These guys belong in Boston and they take pride in this team. Too many times you can bring in free agents (especially in a contract year) where they are here for the wrong reasons.

[example1]

Here is the way I see it.....Jonathan Papelbon, Kevin Youkilis, Dustin Pedroia, Jon Lester, Manny Delcarmen (has his moments), and Jacoby Ellsbury....all players I have been quite impressed with and have come up through the Red Sox system. These are all good players and we seem to be doing a great job down on the farm working with these kids (remember they are still kids and will continue to get much better).

 

Meanwhile JD Drew, Julio Lugo, Edgar Renteria, Coco Crisp (for a majority until recently)....many relievers over the past several seasons.....big free agent signings have been really hit or miss.

 

I'm not trading Jacoby Ellsbury. I think this farm system has come a long ways and we would be foolish to start dealing away key components to a very exciting and bright future of players who feel a sense of passion playing for the Red Sox.

 

I think that is the real key too....you can see it in Papelbon's eyes, the way Youkilis plays the game, and the smile Pedroia brings to the bench. These guys belong in Boston and they take pride in this team. Too many times you can bring in free agents (especially in a contract year) where they are here for the wrong reasons.

 

Good stuff man.

 

The red sox build their top organizational prospects around having quality plate appearances. It helps them win games in the big leagues, so they want to teach it to their players now. That's why it seems like a player like Alfonso Soriano or Andruw Jones will never come to Boston, they simply don't have the same philosophy. It is also why the Red Sox have worked so hard to get and retain draft picks recently, because they want to pick the guys who already show a propensity for that type of hitting. Youkilis, Pedroia and Ellsbury are all really impressive hitters in terms of quality ABs and the ability to get on base. They wear down pitchers and bullpens.

 

I agree about moving Ellsbury. I would much prefer that they get a top tier young talent when giving up a guy with as much athelticism and passion for baseball as Ellsbury. Like BDD quoted Eckersley saying:

 

"I'm not a big Buerhle guy at all. Talk about pitching to contact. Everybody hits him. The only thing good about him is that it doesn't take very long to pitch a game, one way or another. He throws a lot of strikes. I mean not to get on him, lefthanders have always amazed me how they get by. He knows how to pitch obviously, he threw a no-hitter, he's one of the best lefthanders around. I just... I'm afraid of him. I'm afraid of him because he throws too many strikes. I just, Fenway Park, I really don't know. You're only renting him for a couple of months, but beyond that, I'm just not a big fan of his because I think he's very hittable ... to me Gabbard's like Buerhle, but younger and throws harder."

 

He doesn't quite highlight the upside enough, but I think what he's talking about is what keeps Buerhle from being a top-tier pitcher worthy or multiple top-tier prospects.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yeah, but the guys the sox went out and got had some serious questions attached to them. Coco and Edgar were replacing icons. Lugo had an up and down career and was coming off a down stint in LA and Drew came over as damaged goods. Buehrle is a left handed pitcher capable of throwing 220 innings every single yr and giving you a mid 3 era to low 4's ERA. You can bank it every time. There is something to be said for that. And having him behind the two powerful horses in DiceK aned Beckett would make the sox top 3 ridiculous for the next 5 yrs at least.

[riverside sluggers]

Yeah' date=' but the guys the sox went out and got had some serious questions attached to them. Coco and Edgar were replacing icons. Lugo had an up and down career and was coming off a down stint in LA and Drew came over as damaged goods. Buehrle is a left handed pitcher capable of throwing 220 innings every single yr and giving you a mid 3 era to low 4's ERA. You can bank it every time. There is something to be said for that. And having him behind the two powerful horses in DiceK aned Beckett would make the sox top 3 ridiculous for the next 5 yrs at least.[/quote']

 

Thats if he would submit to signing an extension

[jacksonianmarch]

if the sox were willing to throw Lester and Ells their way, you better believe the White Sox would allow a 72hour window.

[TheKilo]

Dispute over no-trade clause may signal end of Buehrle, ChiSox contract talk

 

By Buster Olney

ESPN The Magazine

 

 

...The White Sox had offered Buehrle a four-year, $56 million deal, and Buehrle had insisted on a full no-trade clause. According to a source familiar with negotiations, the White Sox asked for possible solutions to the impasse. Buehrle's side suggested a new structure, without a blanket no-trade clause -- a four-year, $56 million deal, and if Buehrle was traded, then a $17 million player option for 2012 would kick in. This way, if Buehrle were traded, then his deal would get closer to his current market value; five years and $73 million is equal to what Roy Oswalt got with the Astros last fall.

 

But the White Sox turned down the proposal, and continue to market Buehrle aggressively. Buehrle threw eight scoreless innings Saturday, and as he walked off the field after the top of the eighth, he waved his cap -- perhaps for the last time with the White Sox.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2929267

[Cityofchampions33]

if the sox were willing to throw Lester and Ells their way' date=' you better believe the White Sox would allow a 72hour window.[/quote']

 

agreed