Mark Buehrle?

[jacksonianmarch]

Given his AAA numbers' date=' and the nature of the setbacks and potential for full recovery (and the signs that he has made a full recovery with the fastball coming back and the weight) I would say I feel pretty comfortable talking about Lester as part of the Sox going forward. He has been inconsistent, but I know the pitch count is something that has hindered his performance in the past and has always been impatient with it. Regardless, his AAA numbers are solid right now. I think Lester is back to being Lester.[/quote']

 

Lester needs to prove he can locate in the majors. Because when he came up, he nibbled way too much, fell behind in counts and then was scored upon regularly. Maybe Farrell has the golden touch and can make a minor miracle with Lester as well.

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06252007/sports/yankees/rocket_gives_rare_dose_of_relief_yankees_george_king.htm

 

White Sox are scouting the yankees as well. If they deal Joba, Cashman should be shot. Kennedy, maybe. Not Joba.

[inkman]

I like Manny Delcarmen' date=' Hansen, and Gabbard, but I like Buehrle more. [/quote']

 

I would also like to give up a pile of snot for a top of the rotation guy as well. :harhar:

[BSN07]

Get Buherle without giving up Buchholz, Bowden or Ellsbury.

 

08 rotation would be

 

1.Beckett

2.Matsuzaka

3.Buherle

4.Lester

5.Buchholz

 

Let Wake retire, that way we can ditch Dougie. If Buchholz doesn't seem ready at the beginning of the season, you always have JT or another cheap veteran #5 starter.

[CrespoBlows]

Get Buherle without giving up Buchholz, Bowden or Ellsbury.

 

08 rotation would be

 

1.Beckett

2.Matsuzaka

3.Buherle

4.Lester

5.Buchholz

 

Let Wake retire, that way we can ditch Dougie. If Buchholz doesn't seem ready at the beginning of the season, you always have JT or another cheap veteran #5 starter.

 

lutz giv up taveraz n cora fur burelehee too fur won tehy cant refuse!!!!

[mosox]

The fact that Theo is even talking about this trade may indicate two serious concerns. First, Schilling won't be back for a while, and second, they may not be confident in Lester. If that's the case then Theo may think he almost has to make the deal. From what I've seen though Gabbard throws well and I see no reason to go out and make a deal.

[Rdsxmbnt]

lutz giv up taveraz n cora fur burelehee too fur won tehy cant refuse!!!!

 

Id even throw in a power set-up man like Mike Timlin to make it happen

[schillingouttheks]

Get Buherle without giving up Buchholz, Bowden or Ellsbury.

 

08 rotation would be

 

1.Beckett

2.Matsuzaka

3.Buherle

4.Lester

5.Buchholz

 

Let Wake retire, that way we can ditch Dougie. If Buchholz doesn't seem ready at the beginning of the season, you always have JT or another cheap veteran #5 starter.

 

You will not see Buehrle in this uniform without giving up at least Bowden. I'd also rather move Lester elsewhere if the Sox plan on signing Zambrano or Sabathia this off season. That would give us this '08 rotation (don't pick up Wake's option...I love the guy, but I can't stand Mirabelli; that said, pick his option up if you plan on using him out of the bullpen. I'm pretty sure they could handle a knuckleballer sans Mirabelli for one or two innings. Bring up Kottaras to back up Varitek or trade Ellsbury for Saltalamacchia):

 

Beckett

Matsuzaka

Zambrano/Sabathia

Buehrle

Buchholz

 

Yes please.

[rician blast]

The fact that Theo is even talking about this trade may indicate two serious concerns. First' date=' Schilling won't be back for a while, and second, they may not be confident in Lester. [/quote']

 

my thoughts exactly...how much of this trade talk is simply conjecture on the part of the media I don't know, but I think you've got to consider, assuming their is some truth to the rumors, that Schill and/or Lester pose serious concerns right now.

[schillingouttheks]

Well, if they're concerned about them, they can trade for Buehrle, sign Zambrano or Sabathia, and plug in Buchholz as the 5 starter. I wouldn't complain.

[adam123]

Go for Santana forget Zambrano he's a head case . And soft tossing Buehrle will not do well in Fenway.

[Cocos Disciples]

Go for Santana forget Zambrano he's a head case . And soft tossing Buehrle will not do well in Fenway.

 

Santana isn't a FA at the end of the year.

 

Care to elaborate on why you think Buehrle won't do well in Fenway? In 4 games at Fenway he is 3-1 with a 3.49 ERA. Granted he has 12 K and 11 walks, but that has nothing to do with Fenway.

[adam123]

I am just worried soft tossing lefty will not be effective. But I would like to see him so hopefully i will be wrong .

[eZ_d0eS_iT]

who is buehrle's agent? if its boras i can guarantee you he'd only be a half season rental. with the ridiculous jack average to slightly above average players/pitchers received last offseason, it might be too much of a temptation for him not to hit the open market. if on the other hand, he cares about winning, and would be willing to sign an extension, i might part with a good pitching prospect who would otherwise be blocked from joining the rotation.

[Rdsxmbnt]

priceless question I saw on soxprospects from a BP chat:

 

Matt (Burbs of Chicago): Buehrle is on his way out in Chicago. With that being the case, would you make this deal if you were Kenny Williams -- You get Clay Buchholz and Jacoby Ellsbury for your soon-to-be FA LH SP? How about the BoSox -- does the deal make sense from their end?

 

Kevin Goldstein: The Red Sox would NEVER NEVER EVER do that.

[ksushi]

Lester needs to prove he can locate in the majors. Because when he came up' date=' he nibbled way too much, fell behind in counts and then was scored upon regularly. Maybe Farrell has the golden touch and can make a minor miracle with Lester as well.[/quote']

 

That happens to a lot of rookie pitcher until they settle into a groove, I don't get why critics harp on that. It happened to glavine, who sported at 1.75 whip in his first year in the majors, it happens to a lot of guys. I'm not worried about his control because no matter what level you are at its 60 feet to home plate and the strike zone is the knees to the letters. That doesn't change. The good signs were there and the bad stuff was nothing too serious to worry about.

[riverside sluggers]

Per 7 News Boston

 

The Red Sox and White Sox are in serious negotiations now for Buehrle. There are 2 sticking points

 

*The White Sox are intent on getting either Lester or Bucholz

*They might not approve of Boston negotiating a contract extension with Buehrle when the trade is being processed

 

As much as I would hate to see him, Id say Sox should send Lester to Chicago (moreso if Buehrle is locked up long term). BoSox still get a lefty pitcher who's been nothing but solid in the AL and the playoffs. And as well as the fact they still keep probably the top pitching prospect in the minors, Clay Bucholz

[redsoxrules]

if they plan to sign buehrle for long term i wouldn't mind giving up lester but NOT bucholz

now if they dont plan on signing him i see no point to make a trade for him

[Rdsxmbnt]

I'm torn. I'm a huge Lester fan (hes been my avatar forever here), and his comeback story is incredible. He has the potential to be a #2 SP in the majors also still. Buehrle is a really solid SP though, innings eater, and a proven AL pitcher with excellent control. Beckett-Matsuzaka-Buchholz-Buehrle is an awesome SP core that would be locked up for a very long time if Buehrle resigns. That can match up with anyone which would be very tempting. FWIW, Kevin Goldstein mentioned specifically in his chat that Boston wont give up any of the Big 3 (Buchholz-Ellsbury-Bowden; Chamberlain for the Yankees also).

[seabeachfred]

We'd be nuts to get Buehrle if we don't sign him to a long term contract before we trade for him. If the Pale Hose balk at that s*** on them. And we don't put Bucholz or Ellsbury is any such package for the lefthander. Those two are a big part of our future and I think both are going to be solid players for us. I would hate to lose Lester but a healthy Buehrle would give us a solid lefty in our rotation, but we should beware of how much Sox GM Williams starts raising the ante. If he compares notes he will see we can give him a much better deal than the Yankees do, but if he holds out for too much we ought to tell him to take a hike. He then would turn to the Yankees and get less than he would have from us. If he goes that route he has taken his first step towards eventually losing his job.

[CrespoBlows]

What the f***?

 

There are more than two teams in this sweepstake.

[ksushi]

*sigh* I would trade Lester for Buehrle. Wow, that was hard to say. I love Lester. ONLY if we signed him long term.

 

But, Ksushi, you love Lester why would you say this? Great question. I say this because Buehrle is exactly what we hope Lester becomes, and its apparent that this team is ready to compete and win now and for the foreseeable future. Beckett, DiceK, Papelbon, Bucholz, Pedroia, and Coco are all young, even Mark is only 28 and will be in his prime through the bulk of whatever contract he would see from the Sox should they acquire him. That primes us to be in the thick of it not only this year, but next year, the year after, the year after that, blah blah blah you get it. With good drafting, smart signings and trades, this well oiled machine we see playing for us now could continue to roll along like this year after year. Bucholz will come up and boost us next year, Ellsbury should make his debut this season and compete for a job next year (if Coco finishes the season well, we have a log jam that could turn out to be very valuable for us on the trade market).

 

Buehrle is a move for now and a move for down the road. Lets do it.

[jacksonianmarch]

ksushi, I couldnt agree more. Lester may have a bit of a higher power ceiling, but Buerhle has proven he can be an innings eating ace on a world championship American League team when he is at his best, and at his worst, he is a middle of the rotation, perennial 200-250IP starter who is left handed. This is a no brainer ESPECIALLY since you already have a nice, young, major league pitching corps to add to. Dealing away Lester wont hurt when you know that Beckett, DiceK and Buerhle could be taking the bump 60% of the time in the next half decade.

[ksushi]

ksushi' date=' I couldnt agree more. Lester may have a bit of a higher power ceiling, but Buerhle has proven he can be an innings eating ace on a world championship American League team when he is at his best, and at his worst, he is a middle of the rotation, perennial 200-250IP starter who is left handed. This is a no brainer ESPECIALLY since you already have a nice, young, major league pitching corps to add to. Dealing away Lester wont hurt when you know that Beckett, DiceK and Buerhle could be taking the bump 60% of the time in the next half decade.[/quote']

 

Exactly. As much as a love Lester, like any prospect, he represents a bit of an unknown. I still favor the approach of bring up your own pitching, but I also think that a good team is fueled by its farm system, not only by the talent brought up, but by the talent shipped out to bring in veteran players. Buehrle is a guy you build a staff around. He has proven he can get it done in the A.L. and under the lights in the playoffs. You gotta do it. I also agree with you that it might not be a great move for the yankees ( i think you said this in another thread maybe?) because they really need to bring up their talent now to establish a corp of young major league talent and get back on their feet that way. Thats exactly what I don't want to happen. I don't want Humberto Sanchez to stay with the Yanks. Or Chamberlain, or Tabata. So thats how I know its the right move for them to make, because it pisses me off that their doing it.

[jacksonianmarch]

Exactly. As much as a love Lester' date=' like any prospect, he represents a bit of an unknown. I still favor the approach of bring up your own pitching, but I also think that a good team is fueled by its farm system, not only by the talent brought up, but by the talent shipped out to bring in veteran players. Buehrle is a guy you build a staff around. He has proven he can get it done in the A.L. and under the lights in the playoffs. You gotta do it. I also agree with you that it might not be a great move for the yankees ( i think you said this in another thread maybe?) because they really need to bring up their talent now to establish a corp of young major league talent and get back on their feet that way. Thats exactly what I don't want to happen. I don't want Humberto Sanchez to stay with the Yanks. Or Chamberlain, or Tabata. So thats how I know its the right move for them to make, because it pisses me off that their doing it.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I agree. As much as I hate to say it, the sox have one hell of a potent 1-2 punch already in DiceK and Beckett. So you just need to add to 3 spots. We have Wang and Hughes, but Hughes still represents a bit of the unknown in terms of rookie mistakes and durability questions. I like our approach, I just hope Steinny can stay in his coma long enough to get this machine rolling.

 

For you guys, you have a guy similar to Hughes waiting in the wings, along with 2 top of the rotation starters. Getting Buerhle while hanging onto Buchholz would be a major coup IMO.

[seabeachfred]

You will not see Buehrle in this uniform without giving up at least Bowden. I'd also rather move Lester elsewhere if the Sox plan on signing Zambrano or Sabathia this off season. That would give us this '08 rotation (don't pick up Wake's option...I love the guy, but I can't stand Mirabelli; that said, pick his option up if you plan on using him out of the bullpen. I'm pretty sure they could handle a knuckleballer sans Mirabelli for one or two innings. Bring up Kottaras to back up Varitek or trade Ellsbury for Saltalamacchia):

 

Beckett

Matsuzaka

Zambrano/Sabathia

Buehrle

Buchholz

 

Yes please.

 

First things first Schill. Who is saying that the Red Sox are finally going to say sayonara to Tim Wakefield. He has become almost a pet for the Red Sox brass and I think they are very reluctant to let him go. They should, no doubt in my mind about it. I saw him Saturday in person and saw enough to convince me that I have been right about him all along. He is about finished. And we can get rid of Mirabelli in the process because he is completely useless as a hitter. i saw that, too on Saturday night. If the Red Sox are smart and do tell Wake to take a hike then Sabathia is who I want in a Red Sox jersey. The problem is the here and now. Who is to say that Cleveland will not resign him? Who'se to say that the Cubs will not resign Zambrano?

 

If we have a chance to get Buehrle and don't have to give up Bucholz or Ellsbury for him, then fine. Those are two players we must not let get away. Bowden? I can see that. Hell, why not make it a big trade.....Send Bowden, Crisp, and Murphy to their team for the lefthander and first baseman Paul Konerko. There would be a way to settle our first base problem for next year. If we have to throw another player or prospect in, fine. It means we can finally bring up Ellsbury and have a legitimate leadoff man for a change. No, Crisp is NOT a leadoff man. He does not work the count at all.

[jacksonianmarch]

You do know that Sabathia is signed through 2008, right?

 

http://www.mlb4u.com/profile.php?id=545

[ksushi]

I have no interest in either Zambrano or Sabathia.

[CrespoBlows]

I have no interest in either Zambrano or Sabathia.

 

I don't like Zambrano, either, but why not Sabathia?

[seabeachfred]

You do know that Sabathia is signed through 2008, right?

 

http://www.mlb4u.com/profile.php?id=545

 

No I didn't Jackson. Thanks for the info. From all the info I was reading here I thought he was in the same class with Zambrano. Then in my opinion we (us, the Red Sox) should go after Buehrle as long as Bucholz and Ellsbury are not part of the deal. I made a proposal in another post that we really make it a big trade but I was throwing out a trial balloon. I don't know yet if anyone even responded to it.