2007 Spring Training Game Thread

[MANNYHOF24]

No cause for concern?

 

Yesterday Papelbon rolled over his ankle while covering first. It was reported that he would get at least an inng of relief in today's game to see how he pitches. Entering the 9th inning ahead 7-4 they gave the ball to Joel Pineiro to notch the save, not Papelbon

 

I bet they are just being careful. They want to give him a couple days rest, and there is no point putting him out there if he is a little bit sore.

[jacksonianmarch]

Control is a worry right now, no doubt. Just like with Igawa, both of them have a track record of having good control. I have a feeling that this track record will bear out once they get comfortable.

[seabeachfred]

Dude, Theo did draft guys like Papelbon and the B's, but he's also drafted guys like Abe Alvarez.

 

It's pretty much hit or miss with the draft. Theo's good most of the time and he's got a knack for signing cheap offensive players with good potential.

 

He's not very good at constructing a bullpen.

 

Kilo, you can say that again. I don't understand why Theo has had such good luck getting us some good offensive players but comes up boxcars in the bullpen. Looks like another possible washout with our relief corps. I was down at Fort Myers this past week and I can tell you that from my own eyes saw only Donnelly and Lopez looked like they are ready to go in and get three outs. Hansen was pathetic, Romero about the same and Piniero a broken work in stalled-progress. If I was in the ninth inning and couldn't use Jonathan, Donnelly is the only guy I would have confidence in giving the ball to with a one or two run lead.

[seabeachfred]

Just curious, what would it take for you to retain a young player with ace stuff? What would they have to do in the minor leagues to earn a spot on your team?

 

You didn't criticize theo's age, but you said tha tif he had been around for 20+ year evaluating talent he would somehow be more reliable. I'm just saying this guy has seen many players in his short time, including some very good ones (Lester, Papelbon, Bard, Bowden, etc.,) and to me, putting Buchholz (a junior-college draft pick who had played OF primarily) at the top of that list means that he could easily be a star in the making. Castiglione (who has been watching young talent for 20 years) seemed VERY pleased and indicated that there would certainly be a spot for this kid in the Sox rotation in the near future. I tend to agree.

 

EX, don't just tend to agree. AGREE WITH GUSTO. I saw this kid pitch and I would bet the garage and even one of the rooms in my house that Clay Bucholz is going to be one helluva pitcher for us in the very near future. He has moxie, command, and can throw his range of pitches any time he wants to with damn good control. I watched him and was very impressed. TB threw most of their starters against him and he threw four great innings and had a shaky fifth brought on by an opening batter error by Cora. Whether than upset the young man I can't say, but I can say I was very impressed with the kid. I sure as hell would take him in a flash over Delcarmen, Hansen, Piniero, and even Wakefield. He could be ready in a year to step into our rotation.

[riverside sluggers]

Not even going on ST stats I do believe that Boston's staff as a whole will be in the top range for strikeouts.

 

Spring Stats

 

Batting

Julio Lugo- 20 for 63 (.317 avg) Triple, 4 RBIs, 13 Runs, 4 SBs

Kevin Youkilis- 21 for 57 (.368 avg) 5 Doubles, 2 HRs, 8 RBIs, 8 Runs, 2 SBs

David Ortiz- 12 for 53 (.226 avg) 3 Doubles, 2 HRs, 13 RBIs, 4 Runs

Manny Ramirez- 13 for 45 (.289 avg) 3 Doubles, HR, 7 RBIs, 7 Runs

J.D. Drew- 16 for 45 (.356 avg) 3 Doubles, Triple, 2 HRs, 8 RBIs, 6 Runs

Mike Lowell- 10 for 64 (.156 avg) 3 HRs, 9 RBIs, 6 Runs

Jason Varitek- 7 for 44 (.159 avg) 2 HRs, 5 RBIs, 6 Runs

Coco Crisp- 13 for 48 (.271 avg) 4 Doubles, 5 RBIs, 5 Runs, 2 SBs

Dustin Pedroia- 14 for 62 (.226 avg) 3 Doubles, HR, 5 RBIs, 9 Runs

///

Alex Cora- 14 for 55 (.255 avg) Double, 2 RBIs, 6 Runs, SB

Eric Hinske- 8 for 43 (.186 avg) 4 Doubles, HR, 6 RBIs, 2 Runs

Doug Mirabelli- 4 for 34 (.118 avg) 2 Doubles, 5 RBIs, Run

Wily Mo Pena- 11 for 54 (.204 avg) Double, HR, 3 RBIs, 6 Runs

 

Pitching

Curt Schilling (2-1, 1.71 ERA)- 21 innings, 14 Hits, 4 Runs, 2 Walks, 10 Ks

Josh Beckett (3-1, 3.04 ERA)- 23.2 innings, 22 Hits, 13 Runs (8 ER), 4 Walks, 24 Ks

Daisuke Matsuzaka (2-1, 2.91 ERA)- 21.2 innings, 11 Hits, 8 Runs (7 ER), 11 Walks, 26 Ks

Tim Wakefield (0-1, 4.29 ERA)- 21 innings, 29 Hits, 12 Runs (10 ER), 2 Walks, 15 Ks

Julian Tavarez (2-0, 2.95 ERA)- 18.1 innings, 16 Hits, 8 Runs (6 ER), 7 Walks, 7 Ks

Overall (8-4, 2.99 ERA)- 105.2 innings, 92 Hits, 47 Runs (35 ER), 26 Walks, 82 Ks

 

Kyle Snyder (4.72 ERA)- 13.1 innings, 16 Hits, 7 Runs, 6 Walks, 15 Ks

Javier Lopez (1-0, 0.68 ERA)- 13.1 innings, 10 Hits, 1 Run, 3 Walks, 10 Ks

J.C. Romero (0-1, 4.91 ERA)- 11 innings, 9 Hits, 7 Runs (6 ER), 6 Walks, 9 Ks

Brendan Donnelly (0-1, 4.91 ERA)- 11 innings, 11 Hits, 6 Runs, 7 Walks, 8 Ks

Hideki Okajima (3.29 ERA)- 13.2 innings, 11 Hits, 5 Runs, 3 Walks, 12 Ks

Joel Pineiro (1-0, 4.72 ERA, 2 Saves)- 13.1 innings, 17 Hits, 8 Runs (7 ER), 6 Walks, 6 Ks

Jonathan Papelbon (0-1, 1.98 ERA)- 13.2 innings, 8 Hits, 3 Runs, 3 Walks, 19 Ks

Overall (2-2, 3.54 ERA, 2 saves)- 89.1 innings, 82 Hits, 37 Runs (35 ER), 34 Walks, 79 Ks

 

Pitching Staff (10-6, 3.23 ERA, 2 saves)- 195 innings, 174 Hits, 84 Runs (70 ER), 60 Walks, 161 Ks

[jacksonianmarch]

OMG Rawlz, Orteez only HIT .226 HE SUXS!!?!

[riverside sluggers]

Something interesting of note is that earlier this week Pedroia changed his # from 64 to 15, since then he has had a 5 game hitting streak

[TheKilo]

Something interesting of note is that earlier this week Pedroia changed his # from 64 to 15' date=' since then he has had a 5 game hitting streak[/quote']

 

5 x 3 = 15

5 + 3 = 8

8^2 = 64

 

Coincidence? I THINK NOT

[example1]

I said I would trade them for established young stars on other teams' date=' not Kevin Brown or Clement or even Pavano (a one-year wonder). I didn't say I would go after old decrepit has beens. By the way, although you criticize the Yankee style of management, they make the post-season every year. They must be doing something right.That is the purpose, but the Red Sox don't need to be as patient because they have more resources than most teams. [/quote']

 

Kevin Brown, Clement and Pavano were all highly touted free agents at the time. They all had plenty of people arguing for and against their acquisitions and were certainly in the class of "I would trade them for some no-name rookie' pitchers (a la Josh Beckett).

 

Yes, the Yankees have been doing some things right. I imagine that jacksonian or any other yankee fan would say they've done their fair share of things wrong too. The Sox could have made the playoffs last year, no doubt. They had injuries, just like many teams get injuries and their chances are diminished. Nothing out of the ordinary. They made the playoffs the year before that, won the WS the year before that, and made the playoffs the season before that. 3 out of 4 and an injury plagued season (during which they led the AL East for the first half) just isn't that bad. Baseball is competitive, what do you want? :dunno:

 

Yes, I am still turning cartwheels over luxury of the picks we got for letting Damon walk to the Yankees. :thumbdown

 

And they got Buchholz for Pedro, another move that was madly unpopular. A year ago you could have poo-poo'd that one as well but it would be folly to do so now. We'll see how Damon's compensation picks work out (Daniel Bard and Kris Johnson, for those interested). I'm not saying that Pedro and Damon are comparable (given Damon's mostly healthy record), only that 'compensation pick' can sometimes lead to actual compensation. Multiple scouting reports and publications have stated that if Buchholz has another season like last year he could be a top 10 or 20 prospect next year at this time. Mostly, I think its time to get over losing Damon to the Yankees. He's a Yankee now. Get over it. Not every move is going to be a good one, but do you like this team more or less than the 02 team entering the season under Dan Duquette?

 

 

Damon====vs======== Lugo

Offerman============ Youkilis

Nomar==============Ortiz

Manny==============Manny (some things just don't need to change)

Tony Clark============Drew

Nixon===============Lowell

Hillenbrand===========Varitek

Varitek==============Crisp

Sanchez=============Pedroia

 

P:

Pedro Schilling

Lowe Beckett

Burkett Matsuzaka

Hermanson Wakefield

Castillo Tavarez

 

CP:

Urgie (14 Years) Urbina ==== Papelbon

 

I personally feel that this is a much better team, heading in a much better direction and I think a lot of that has to do with the FO, including ownership and the baseball ops guys.

 

I don't consider age 32 to be old for a an All Star major leaguer. If it is, maybe we should consider dumping Papi after this season even though his power is increasing every year.

 

We'll see how Damon does after this year, and next year, and the year after that. He's affordable enough, but I think that we will see that JD Drew is a much better player and if Coco has a decent season we won't be missing Damon as much. You're just scarred from last year a700 but it will be better this year. I'm confident at least.

[seabeachfred]

Something interesting of note is that earlier this week Pedroia changed his # from 64 to 15' date=' since then he has had a 5 game hitting streak[/quote']

 

No Riverside, if Pedroia changed his number it came AFTER the last game in Fort Myers on Thursday. He was still sporting that ridiculous #64 against the D'Rays. He must have changed numbers just before the start of the short Phillies series. Thank God for that. That 64 looked ridiculous as hell on him. Fifteen is more like it.

[jacksonianmarch]

If you are trying to justify letting Damon go and then pick up Drew, you are mistaken. Drew was the same age as Damon when he left. Drew gets one extra yr and will likely play 70% of the games Damon will. Damon plays Cf rather well aside from the arm and Damon will steal many more bases. And to be honest with you, I think Damon hits more HRs this yr. The only thing Drew will have on him is the walk total, but Damon is the far better player overall.

[jacksonianmarch]

but yes, the yankees have had some stinkers. Their biggest stinker was the dissolution of our rotation in 2003. If Clemens, Wells, and Pettitte are yankees in 2004, you are still awaiting a world series victory.

[TheKilo]

If you are trying to justify letting Damon go and then pick up Drew' date=' you are mistaken. Drew was the same age as Damon when he left. Drew gets one extra yr and will likely play 70% of the games Damon will. Damon plays Cf rather well aside from the arm and Damon will steal many more bases. And to be honest with you, I think Damon hits more HRs this yr. The only thing Drew will have on him is the walk total, but Damon is the far better player overall.[/quote']

 

Um, no. The value Damon has over Drew is the fact that he plays more games. That's it.

 

If not for a fluke broken wrost Drew would be better than Damon three years running.

[jacksonianmarch]

Um, no. The value Damon has over Drew is the fact that he plays more games. That's it.

 

If not for a fluke broken wrost Drew would be better than Damon three years running.

 

Damon hit for a little higher average last yr, had more HRs, had more runs scored, stole more bases and played CF. The only thing Drew had on him was RBI's and walks.

[TheKilo]

Damon hit for a little higher average last yr' date=' had more HRs, had more runs scored, stole more bases and played CF. The only thing Drew had on him was RBI's and walks.[/quote']

 

You think the park might have something to do with that?

 

OPS + last year: Damon 120, Drew 125

[riverside sluggers]

but yes' date=' the yankees have had some stinkers. Their biggest stinker was the dissolution of our rotation in 2003. If Clemens, Wells, and Pettitte are yankees in 2004, you are still awaiting a world series victory.[/quote']

 

Is that supposed to make us feel grateful or for you to forget the Yanks letting 4 chances slip away in the ALCS?

 

If you are trying to justify letting Damon go and then pick up Drew, you are mistaken. Drew was the same age as Damon when he left. Drew gets one extra yr and will likely play 70% of the games Damon will. Damon plays Cf rather well aside from the arm and Damon will steal many more bases. And to be honest with you, I think Damon hits more HRs this yr. The only thing Drew will have on him is the walk total, but Damon is the far better player overall.

 

Im pretty sure they got Drew because he is a considerable upgrade from Trot, not to compensate for the loss of Johnny Damon. Why are you comparing the 2? So Damon is now set to be a consistent 22-25 HR hitter, and Drew will never reach that feat?

 

Damon- center field, lead off hitter

Drew- right field, #5 hitter

[jacksonianmarch]

Is that supposed to make us feel grateful or for you to forget the Yanks letting 4 chances slip away in the ALCS?

 

 

 

Im pretty sure they got Drew because he is a considerable upgrade from Trot, not to compensate for the loss of Johnny Damon. Why are you comparing the 2? So Damon is now set to be a consistent 22-25 HR hitter, and Drew will never reach that feat?

 

Damon- center field, lead off hitter

Drew- right field, #5 hitter

 

The last 2 games, especially the last one was lost because we didnt have the starting pitching.

 

As for comparing the two, the sox claimed poverty when Damon left, then they spend more money on Drew who is also an expensive OFer. That is where the comparison lies.

[a700hitter]

Kevin Brown' date=' Clement and Pavano were all highly touted free agents at the time. They all had plenty of people arguing for and against their acquisitions and were certainly in the class of "I would trade them for some no-name rookie' pitchers (a la Josh Beckett).[/quote']The Yankees got Kevin Brown when he was 39, certainly not someone that I would want to trade top prospects to get. Pavano was 29 with a long checkered injury history with very little accomplishment. Neither could be compared to the young flame-throwing Beckett.

The Sox could have made the playoffs last year' date=' no doubt. They had injuries, just like many teams get injuries and their chances are diminished. Nothing out of the ordinary. They made the playoffs the year before that, won the WS the year before that, and made the playoffs the season before that. 3 out of 4 and an injury plagued season (during which they led the AL East for the first half) just isn't that bad. Baseball is competitive, what do you want? :dunno: [/quote']The Yankees had very key injuries and they made the Playoffs. Reason: They stepped up and helped their team while the Red Sox passed on Abreu with the bogus excuse that it was too expensive. They then turned around and spent a King's ransom on an injury prone Drew.

And they got Buchholz for Pedro' date=' another move that was madly unpopular. A year ago you could have poo-poo'd that one as well but it would be folly to do so now.[/quote']...and I think if Pedro had stayed in 2005 we might have had a repeat. Instead, we had to watch Clement implode in game 1 against the White Sox. I don't care that Pedro's arm blew out. He was worth the risk, and he still may bring the Mets a World Championship if he comes back healthy. If the Mets end up getting 3 years of good service from Pedro, that is worth the 4th year of his contract in today's market, and Bucholz, for all the high hopes, may never be a top of the rotation pitcher.

We'll see how Damon's compensation picks work out (Daniel Bard and Kris Johnson' date=' for those interested). Mostly, I think its time to get over losing Damon to the Yankees. He's a Yankee now. Get over it. [/quote']I love when people say "get over it." What exactly does that mean? Does that mean that after a certain amount of time passes that a bad move is no longer a bad move? Does saying "get over it" absolve the sale of Ruth? Letting Damon go was a bad, bad move compounded enormously by the fact that he went to the Yankees in his prime. I really don't give a crap how some sandwich picks do 3 or 5 years after the blunder. The move weakened the 2006 team tremendously and it revived the Yankees outfield. Maybe you should get over it and accept that Theo has shot the team in the foot on more than one occassion. His track record since 2004 really is very weak. This year his reputation and job may be on the line if this gold-plated team ends up out of the money. For all the money and resources available, the bullpen sucks, the bench is weak and not deep at all, and the starting rotation will fall apart if one or both of the 40 year-olds break down.

I personally feel that this is a much better team' date=' heading in a much better direction and I think a lot of that has to do with the FO, including ownership and the baseball ops guys.[/quote']I like the commitment that this ownership group has made to putting out a good product. I am not sure that the implementation plan has been the best.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Yankees got Kevin Brown when he was 39' date=' certainly not someone that I would want to trade top prospects to get. Pavano was 29 with a long checkered injury history with very little accomplishment. Neither could be compared to the young flame-throwing Beckett. The Yankees had very key injuries and they made the Playoffs. Reason: They stepped up and helped their team while the Red Sox passed on Abreu with the bogus excuse that it was too expensive. They then turned around and spent a King's ransom on an injury prone Drew....and I think if Pedro had stayed in 2005 we might have had a repeat. Instead, we had to watch Clement implode in game 1 against the White Sox. I don't care that Pedro's arm blew out. He was worth the risk, and he still may bring the Mets a World Championship if he comes back healthy. If the Mets end up getting 3 years of good service from Pedro, that is worth the 4th year of his contract in today's market, and Bucholz, for all the high hopes, may never be a top of the rotation pitcher.I love when people say "get over it." What exactly does that mean? Does that mean that after a certain amount of time passes that a bad move is no longer a bad move? Does saying "get over it" absolve the sale of Ruth? Letting Damon go was a bad, bad move compounded enormously by the fact that he went to the Yankees in his prime. I really don't give a crap how some sandwich picks do 3 or 5 years after the blunder. The move weakened the 2006 team tremendously and it revived the Yankees outfield. Maybe you should get over it and accept that Theo has shot the team in the foot on more than one occassion. His track record since 2004 really is very weak. This year his reputation and job may be on the line if this gold-plated team ends up out of the money. [b']For all the money and resources available, the bullpen sucks, the bench is weak and not deep at all, and the starting rotation will fall apart if one or both of the 40 year-olds break down.I like the commitment that this ownership group has made to putting out a good product. I am not sure that the implementation plan has been the best[/b].

 

AMEN. If the sox rotation gives them innings and they make all their starts, the sox will be tough. If the rotation hits the showers regularly before the 7th inning and there are injuries/ineffectiveness in your rotation, the season is shot.

 

The sox are very fragile. If they start together, they will be solid. But one injury, one player not living up to the hype will completely torpedo this team.

[TheKilo]

Having Pedro was not going to win us a 2nd in 2005.

[TheKilo]

AMEN. If the sox rotation gives them innings and they make all their starts, the sox will be tough. If the rotation hits the showers regularly before the 7th inning and there are injuries/ineffectiveness in your rotation, the season is shot.

 

The sox are very fragile. If they start together, they will be solid. But one injury, one player not living up to the hype will completely torpedo this team.

 

 

I respectfully disagree, and can really say the same for NYY. If Wang reverts to the mean you guys are in a boatload of trouble, IMO.

[jacksonianmarch]

Having Pedro was not going to win us a 2nd in 2005.

 

You put Pedro out there on day 1, you take back home field.

[jacksonianmarch]

I respectfully disagree' date=' and can really say the same for NYY. If Wang reverts to the mean you guys are in a boatload of trouble, IMO.[/quote']

 

The yankees dont need a ton of effectiveness out of their rotation. They need innings. Even when Wang is off, he gives innings. 4-5 runs a game will be nothing for this offense and our bullpen is solid enough to hold down the leads they get.

[a700hitter]

Um, no. The value Damon has over Drew is the fact that he plays more games. That's it.

 

If not for a fluke broken wrost Drew would be better than Damon three years running.

Damon is also an excellent leadoff hitter who is a baserunning and basestealing threat. Drew is not. That in addition to the fact that Damon has similar power and average and he is dependable and sturdy. These are significant advantages for Damon. The biggest value that Damon would have had if we kept him is that he wouldn't be on the yankees. There haven't been too many good available CF's available the last couple of years.

[riverside sluggers]

Ease up 700, even if Pedro was on the 2005 team, I dont think theres a sure given that the Sox wouldve had back to back titles. The bullpen was in bad shape alone. Lets say Pedro was resigned to a 4 year deal, whose to say the Sox wouldve still gone hard for Beckett after the 2005 season. Hell we could right now have 2+ 40 year old starting pitchers and Pedro on the DL until the All-Star break coming back from major surgery. He did the smart move going to the national league. His ERA would increse easily if he stayed in this division.

[jacksonianmarch]

and you could have Anibal Sanchez in the rotation while having Hanley instead of Lugo at SS. And Andy Marte at 3b would be nice.

[riverside sluggers]

AMEN. If the sox rotation gives them innings and they make all their starts, the sox will be tough. If the rotation hits the showers regularly before the 7th inning and there are injuries/ineffectiveness in your rotation, the season is shot.

 

The sox are very fragile. If they start together, they will be solid. But one injury, one player not living up to the hype will completely torpedo this team.

 

Here we go, how the Sox will fail. But the Yankees will thrive because not one player will have a bad season

[riverside sluggers]

and you could have Anibal Sanchez in the rotation while having Hanley instead of Lugo at SS. And Andy Marte at 3b would be nice.

 

Right forgot Beckett is going to be a 5+ ERA guy for the rest of his career

[jacksonianmarch]

he could be. Or he could be a league average pitcher in terms of ERA and be hit or miss every time out. Sorry dude, Beckett was about as hit or miss as they come last yr and nothing to this point will change that.

[a700hitter]

Ease up 700' date=' even if Pedro was on the 2005 team, I dont think theres a sure given that the Sox wouldve had back to back titles. The bullpen was in bad shape alone. Lets say Pedro was resigned to a 4 year deal, whose to say the Sox wouldve still gone hard for Beckett after the 2005 season. Hell we could right now have 2+ 40 year old starting pitchers and Pedro on the DL until the All-Star break coming back from major surgery. He did the smart move going to the national league. His ERA would increse easily if he stayed in this division.[/quote']It's pure rationalization and speculation that they would not have gone after Beckett if they had kept Pedro. They spent an incredible amount to get Dice k the year after we got Beckett, so your argument is baseless. If Pedro had won game one, we could easily have taken that series, and the toughest team to get by was the White Sox. We had an incredible offensive team that year. It was the best in baseball, and as far as the bad bullpen in 2005, if you remember Papelbon was starting to step up in some very important situations. He could have been our Adam Wainwright in 2005.