RJ back to the Diamondbacks??

[jacksonianmarch]

and the ledger was the paper yesterday that said nothing was imminent. I would be completely shocked if we get 2 starting pitching prospects and Medders. Man, Cashman would have turned two old malcontents into 6 damn good pitching prospects. WOWZAH.

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12302006/sports/yankees/in_the_zona_yankees_joel_sherman.htm

 

the more $$ the yankees eat, the more talent they will get in return. EAT ALL OF IT CASH AND FLEECE THE BACKS!

 

The Yankees are trying to actually reserve that cash for another aging ace, Roger Clemens. I would assume Cashman has had to have talked to old man clem by now if he is their contingency plan.

[riverside sluggers]

No reason for them to stop the pillaging now, the Cardinals & Mets are struggling to find starting pitching help... who's to say they wouldnt mind taking Carl Pavano?

[jacksonianmarch]

No reason for them to stop the pillaging now' date=' the Cardinals & Mets are struggling to find starting pitching help... who's to say they wouldnt mind taking Carl Pavano?[/quote']

 

Why the hell not? The top 4 in the rotation should equate to 200 innings a piece. I wouldnt be overly sad if the 5 hole turned into audition time for one of the 7 young options. Man, we went from a s*** farm system to a pitching loaded farm to now a pitching overloaded farm. I have a feeling this stockpile is more than just trying to retool our rotation from within.

[elsrbueno]

and the ledger was the paper yesterday that said nothing was imminent. I would be completely shocked if we get 2 starting pitching prospects and Medders. Man' date=' Cashman would have turned two old malcontents into 6 damn good pitching prospects. WOWZAH.[/quote']

 

Finally, we can agree on something Jacko.

 

I would also be shocked if the Yankees get Medders + 2 good prospects for Johnson. In my mind, he's a huge question mark just because of his back surgery alone, not to mention his mediocre pitching last year. He'll benefit from moving to the NL West and out of New York (where he was never really comfortable) but this is not the Randy Johnson that the Yankees got 2 years ago.

 

Like others have said, the talent received will be directly proportional to the money subsidized by the Yankees.

 

I can see the motivation to bring Randy back to the desert, and in the winnable NL West he may actually make them a contender, but they have to keep things in perspective and not overpay for him. This seems as inevitable as Randy coming to NY 2 years ago, so I'll reserve judgement until after the final package is announced.

[a700hitter]

Why the hell not? The top 4 in the rotation should equate to 200 innings a piece. I wouldnt be overly sad if the 5 hole turned into audition time for one of the 7 young options. Man' date=' we went from a s*** farm system to a pitching loaded farm to now a pitching overloaded farm. I have a feeling this stockpile is more than just trying to retool our rotation from within.[/quote']I must be missing something. If the Unit gets traded, who follows Wang, Moose and Pettitte? Pavano? That would be scary. It seems to me that there would be two gaping holes in the rotation. This movement of older established players for prospects is becoming a systematic dismantling of the Yankee team. This might bear fruit two or three years down the road, but the 2007 team's chance are being sacrificed by the Yankee FO.

[riverside sluggers]

If Pavano was traded for prospects, we'd see an opening day rotation of

 

Wang

Petitte

Mussina

Igawa

Karstens & Rasner filling the #5 role until expected mid-season debut of Hughes

[a700hitter]

If Pavano was traded for prospects, we'd see an opening day rotation of

 

Wang

Petitte

Mussina

Igawa

Karstens & Rasner filling the #5 role until expected mid-season debut of Hughes

Oh, I forgot about Igawa.

[TheKilo]

f***ing DBacks.

 

Oh well.

[Gom]

Trading Randy Johnson for the Yankees is a godsend if no cash is involved. Next year's free agent class is much better than this one, and the Yankees are showing some great foresight in signing good, older players to short deals to allow their system to develop within. Short deals for Mussina, Pettite, Abreu, etc., are just the band aid the Yankees need to retool their system.

 

With a lot of big spenders having fired their bullets, next year's free agent class is going to be a turkey shoot for the Yankees and Mets.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Anyone mentioning Carl Pavano for prospects.....why would any team offer any prospects for him. Pavano is no longer effective after missing so much time in the past couple seasons. Teams that are desperate for pitching would most likely look internally before even considering picking up Pavano for nothing, let alone a trade. If a baseball team made a trade for Pavano they are just doing the Yankees a favor...thats all.

 

As for the Diamondbacks trading for Randy Johnson. I can't go into great depth until I know the final deal but......trading young players for a 43 year old coming off surgery and owed tons of money? Do the D-backs really think Randy Johnson will get them to the playoffs and win the World Series? That has to be the plan cause why else would you make this move? Clearly not looking to the future of the team which they should after parting with Shawn Green and Luis Gonzalez. Time to start the rebuilding process.....or on second thought....do the Yankees a favor.

[Gom]

You guys are all nuts.

 

Randy Johnson was brought in to win in the post-season. He has failed miserably.

 

He has had back surgery and is not expected to start the season. Literally any pitcher in baseball could have had his record with 7.5 run support per game that he averaged last year.

 

17 wins for this guy is the most misleading stat in baseball outside of Beckett's wins last year. Both were horrible. At least Beckett had a chance, a realistic one, of being better.

 

The Yankees finished 11 games ahead of the Sox. The signing of Drew (?), Matsuzaka, and Lugo do not make up the difference between them and the Yankees if you figure in the losses of Sheffield, Wright, and potentially Randy Johnson and the bringing in of Britton, Pettitte, and Igawa.

 

The Yankees have gotten younger, shed some bloated contracts, and given themselves serious ammunition for a deadline deal [ala Abreu] next season. The Yankee strategy of signing stopgaps until their system improves over time is a no-brainer.

 

Randy Johnson is a mediocre pitcher. One whose statistics can be easily replaced by any above average Triple A pitcher. Anyone who watched the Yankees last year can tell you that Karstens outpitched RJ. So give him a shot. Open up a spot for Clemens. Offer up half the farm for Zambrano if the Cubs fall out of it. Getting rid of RJ is a boon for the Yankees.

[riverside sluggers]

Yea the Red Sox arent going to be contenders for the AL East in 07, keep telling yourself that. Oh and I totally agree, Matsuzaka does not help the Red Sox gain any ground (in December) on the Yankees because heck they have Kei Igawa

[CrespoBlows]

17 wins for this guy is the most misleading stat in baseball outside of Beckett's wins last year. Both were horrible. At least Beckett had a chance, a realistic one, of being better.

 

Randy Johnson also had several other stats, that were worth a glance.

 

WHIP: 1.24

K/9: 7.55

 

He's not as bad as his ERA indicated. Going to the NL, and out of the AL East, should help his numbers out. He probably could post a low 4.00 ERA in the AL next year, if he can lower his .366 BABIP with RISP. (which skyrocketed his numbers)

 

The Yankees finished 11 games ahead of the Sox. The signing of Drew (?), Matsuzaka, and Lugo do not make up the difference between them and the Yankees if you figure in the losses of Sheffield, Wright, and potentially Randy Johnson and the bringing in of Britton, Pettitte, and Igawa.

 

Probably not, but the gap is not as big as you make it seem. Drew and Lugo will boost the offense. Matsuzaka will boost the starting rotation. Losing Johnson, and Sheffield makes the Yankees a weaker team. Melky Cabrera won't come close to making Sheffield's numbers, nor will Jeff Karstens.

 

The Yankees have gotten younger, shed some bloated contracts, and given themselves serious ammunition for a deadline deal [ala Abreu] next season. The Yankee strategy of signing stopgaps until their system improves over time is a no-brainer.

 

Depends how much the D-Backs are willing to eat. Then again, if the Yankees are in a position to make a trade, they'll do it. No matter, if Johnson is traded.

 

Randy Johnson is a mediocre pitcher. One whose statistics can be easily replaced by any above average Triple A pitcher. Anyone who watched the Yankees last year can tell you that Karstens outpitched RJ. So give him a shot. Open up a spot for Clemens. Offer up half the farm for Zambrano if the Cubs fall out of it. Getting rid of RJ is a boon for the Yankees.

 

I agree, that this is a great trade for 2008 for the Yankees, but it will be hurting them in 2007. Karstens is not a major league starting pitcher. His BABIP was .246, which indicates that he is rather lucky. He allowed 40 hits in 42 innings, even with those lucky numbers. Can you imagine how many hits he's going to allow, when his luck evens out?

 

His K/9 rate is very low for an AL pitcher. (3.88) It would be different if he's getting a lot of ground balls, but he's not. (.48) He can't expect to live in Yankee Stadium giving up a lot of contact, and a lot of flyballs.

[Gom]

You guys fall in love with BABIP, and K/9 ratio. Admittedly, it is a very strong indicator, but you guys sometimes treat it as the holy grail.

 

The art of pitching is deception. He isn't deceptive. However, his forte was brute power. He has lost that ability for the most part.

 

His whip admittedly is lower than what his ERA predicates. However, he falls off drastically. He can be sailing for 4 innings, and completely falls apart in one inning, before the pen even gets a chance to warm up.

 

This is a good trade for the Yankees in 2007. The Yankees WILL make the playoffs, with or without RJ. The players they get will help them in a trade for this year, either now, at the trade deadline, or will hopefully mature into major league pitchers. This also gives them an ability to increase their payroll since they shed some payroll in the process [Clemens?]. They have made the playoffs for 12 straight years, and will again next year. It's about who can help them win in the post-season as well as not tax their bullpen in the process. Randy Johnson did neither for the Yankees. After seeing the success rookies and journeyman have had in the post season, I would give someone else a chance. I can win 17 games with 7.5 runs of support.

 

Randy Johnson will have a decent season in Arizona. I would rather see Igawa. He can't be any worse. The Yankees won in the post season in seasons past because of good starting pitching and relief. Their starters consistently gave them 7 innings. I remember Pettitte being the weak link innings-wise.

 

Wright hurt more than he helped. Win or lose, he burned your pen. Johnson is heading in that direction. So is Mussina, but at least he is saavy enough to sail through a few more innings than RJ. The guy is no longer a pitcher you can depend on. Time to move him now, rather than just let him go for nothing at the end. It's not like the Yankees can't turn around and trade the same three players they get for a pitcher better than RJ right now. To tell you the truth, I don't even know what the hell the Diamondbacks are thinking.

 

As for losing Sheffield, he wasn't around last season for the most part. So losing him is not an appreciable loss for the Yankees when comparing 2008 to 2007. Mirabelli had much more of an impact for your team than Sheffield did for ours.

 

Plus, are any of you taking into consideration that he is coming off major back surgery, will not be available at the start of the season, and is 43? Exactly what should the Yankees look forward to if they keep this guy? You really think he will be as good (sic) as he was last year?

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I dont think losing Sheffield will hurt us considering he really didnt contribute much to the team last year anyway. We got Abreu to replace Sheff. Melky should only be a 4th OFer. Trading RJ can be somewhat questionable however I think Johnson is a question mark coming into 2007 anyway. Hes a year older coming off back surgery and the stats you site are heading in the wrong direction after 2 years with us so I fear where they will be in the 3rd year. But you are right going back to the NL West will help him.

[CrespoBlows]

Plus, are any of you taking into consideration that he is coming off major back surgery, will not be available at the start of the season, and is 43? Exactly what should the Yankees look forward to if they keep this guy? You really think he will be as good (sic) as he was last year?

 

No, I think the Yankees should make this trade. Even if it makes them weaker in 2007. The Yankees will likely net two pitchers who will make an impact in 2008. Nippert is a good number three in his prime, and Medders is another good arm in the bullpen. That's a good catch for Randy Johnson.

 

I, along with you, think Johnson will have a decent year. He'd probably have a low 4.00 ERA with the Yankees, and that could dip even lower in the NL. It's only for that reason why I think the Yankees will be weaker in 2007. Igawa, probably won't be able to match those number. Neither will Karstens.

[CrespoBlows]

I dont think losing Sheffield will hurt us considering he really didnt contribute much to the team last year anyway. We got Abreu to replace Sheff. Melky should only be a 4th OFer. Trading RJ can be somewhat questionable however I think Johnson is a question mark coming into 2007 anyway.

 

I penciled Sheff in at DH, I assume Cabrera will play in left, and Matsui to DH?

 

Hes a year older coming off back surgery and the stats you site are heading in the wrong direction after 2 years with us so I fear where they will be in the 3rd year. But you are right going back to the NL West will help him.

 

They are headed in reverse, but they are still above average when you compare them with other pitchers across the league.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I penciled Sheff in at DH, I assume Cabrera will play in left, and Matsui to DH?

 

 

 

They are headed in reverse, but they are still above average when you compare them with other pitchers across the league.

From what I understand Matsui will play LF and Giambi will DH. From what it sounds like they are talking to Doug Mientkiewicz(I'm not a big fan) about 1B and I have heard some rumors that they asked Arizona for Conor Jackson but thats highly unlikely. As for Units stats, they might be above average now but its trending down plus back surgery plus being in the AL East.....I'd rather part ways now and get value for him then rolling the dice in 07 and getting nothing after.

[jacksonianmarch]

I must be missing something. If the Unit gets traded' date=' who follows Wang, Moose and Pettitte? Pavano? That would be scary. It seems to me that there would be two gaping holes in the rotation. This movement of older established players for prospects is becoming a systematic dismantling of the Yankee team. This might bear fruit two or three years down the road, but the 2007 team's chance are being sacrificed by the Yankee FO.[/quote']

 

.700, Igawa follows Pettitte. Igawa is slated as a #4/5 and his #1 desirable trait is his durability. He averaged over 200IP in his past 6 seasons (and led the league in K's 3 times). I do not think that 200IP and a sub 5 era is out of the question for this guy, which would essentially replace RJ's production.

[jacksonianmarch]

everyone talks about the loss of sheffield as a big loss. We finished 11 games up without sheffield for the most part. We are taking last yrs team, subtracting Jaret Wright and Randy Johnson, adding 2 young power relievers, 5 top pitching prospects, a full yr of Abreu and Matsui, Pettitte and Igawa. And maybe there is a certain 45 yr old coming to town?

[a700hitter]

everyone talks about the loss of sheffield as a big loss. We finished 11 games up without sheffield for the most part. We are taking last yrs team' date=' subtracting Jaret Wright and Randy Johnson, adding 2 young power relievers, 5 top pitching prospects, a full yr of Abreu and Matsui, Pettitte and Igawa. And maybe there is a certain 45 yr old coming to town?[/quote']If the yankees trade Unit, they will have gotten weaker this off-season and the Red Sox have gotten stronger. And you can forget the 45 year old pitching in NY this year. That ain't gonna happen.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

And you can forget the 45 year old pitching in NY this year. That ain't gonna happen.

 

link?

[jacksonianmarch]

link?

 

agreed. 700 is gonna fall hard when roger is a yankee.

[a700hitter]

agreed. 700 is gonna fall hard when roger is a yankee.

I'll be right here if it happens, but I won't be wrong. My $ is on Houston if he plays again.

 

BTW: I was right about Dice K as I never wavered from my position that Boras had no options and no leverage as you and others engaged in one cockamamie scheme and conspiracy theory after another. My record remains unblemished, but I'll be here to take the heat if I am wrong on this one.

[a700hitter]

link?

Where's your link?

[Cocos Disciples]

http://mvn.com/mlb-yankees/2006/12/30/yankees-trade-unit/

 

Nippert and Owings is what they say.

 

Another rumor reports Conor Jackson, and the Yankees give up someone else.

[Gom]

I'll be right here if it happens, but I won't be wrong. My $ is on Houston if he plays again.

 

BTW: I was right about Dice K as I never wavered from my position that Boras had no options and no leverage as you and others engaged in one cockamamie scheme and conspiracy theory after another. My record remains unblemished, but I'll be here to take the heat if I am wrong on this one.

 

I actually think he'll end up in Boston. If I was going to bet, he's going to Beantown.

 

In that case, I hope and pray that me and a700 are both wrong.

[jacksonianmarch]

The MVN is reporting that the yankees are willing to add another prospect in the deal and get Conor Jackson, a power hitting right handed 1b in return. Not a terribly reliable source and no I have no link, but this is just getting better and better.

[example1]

The MVN is reporting that the yankees are willing to add another prospect in the deal and get Conor Jackson' date=' a power hitting right handed 1b in return. Not a terribly reliable source and no I have no link, but this is just getting better and better.[/quote']

 

Would you be okay if they moved Humberto Sanchez for Conor Jackson in this deal? I know Sanchez hasn't been brought up, but Jackson is a solid player so I imagine the prospect the Yanks will throw in will be a top 10 spec. Just a guess. :dunno: :dunno: