RJ back to the Diamondbacks??

[jacksonianmarch]

I am so jealous that I'll probably have to hide my belt and shoelaces if they also trade the 39 year-old Moose for more prospects.You already have a lefty-hitting first baseman that can mash but not field. Maybe they'll move him for prospects too. Maybe Cashman will take a page from the playbook of the Marlin's GM.

 

700. Cmon now man. Giambi is not necessarily being moved to DH because he cannot field. That is part of the reason. The other part is that the guy flops around like a fish too often and hurts himself. His torn wrist tendon that was fixed a few months back was a big reason why he tanked late (that or his supply of Andro was halted). In order to keep his impact bat around longer, he will be out of the field for the majority of the time. I have been a major advocate of having a defense first 1b, but if the option arises to get a 24 yr old left handed MLB ready, power hitting 1b then you have to do it. A .922 OPS and 67 bombs in 1300 minor league ABs is not something that comes everyday.

 

Also, notice something here. RJ was a disappointment last season. He is declining. He is injured. He was disposable. Mussina on the other hand was strong last yr. He had a career rennaissance once he embraced his loss of velocity, which is something that Randy has been too bull headed to do. If we decided to deal Mussina now as well (which we cant btw since he was signed to a FA deal) then I'd be pissed. But thus far, dealing Wright and Sheffield were good moves for the overall health of the organization without leaving any major, season threatening holes unfilled. Dealing RJ for a s*** prospect and a used condom would piss me off too. But getting 2 top prospects and a young, power armed major league middle reliever is too good to be true for a guy with the 33rd best era in the AL last yr (which is something when only 39 pitchers qualified).

 

Also, RJ's only desirable quality last season was his ability to take the bump and break 200 innings. Pettitte took his #3 slot in the rotation, and he has broken 200IP 2 yrs running and 3 out of 4. His #4 slot will be filled by the Japanese kid whose most desirable and potentially his most transferrable quality (since nobody has a clue what his production will be) is his durability. So you essentially have a younger, mini 2006 version RJ right there. Then the 5 slot will be held down (okay, laugh now) by Pavano (pussy!). Okay okay, it will be kept warm by a bunch of young pitchers who coincidentally have a penchant for eating innings (Rasner to a lesser degree and Karstens to a greater degree) until Roger makes his return to NY.

 

And another thing this does 700, and this should worry you the most. It allows the yankees to create a corps of young pitchers in the minors surrounding Hughes. Which means that the yankees may actually be able to keep Phil Hughes, insert him into the rotation between 07 and 08 and have enough minor league pitching to make a push for a young, proven starter at the deadline or in the next off season. Quality, high level minor league arms are worth their weight in gold when trade time comes.

 

I have said before, I think this yankee team is being molded from steinbrenner era buy everything and then buy some more to a team that will be very good right now and has the flexibility to be another dynasty. Both with the cash in the FO's pocket and with the prospects in the yankee cupboard to groom or to deal.

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al/yankees/2007-01-02-johnson-trade_x.htm

 

the dbacks broke their silence, annonymously. USA Today is reporting that the DBacks and Yankees will consummate their deal later this week. The agreement is 2 prospects and a middle reliever.

 

Vagaries are annoying. Well, at least we know it isnt 3 prospects, lol. Nothing new to report, except this is coming from a dback org member. Sounds like they are pretty optimistic about this.

[a700hitter]

700. Cmon now man. Giambi is not necessarily being moved to DH because he cannot field. That is part of the reason. The other part is that the guy flops around like a fish too often and hurts himself. His torn wrist tendon that was fixed a few months back was a big reason why he tanked late (that or his supply of Andro was halted). In order to keep his impact bat around longer' date=' he will be out of the field for the majority of the time. I have been a major advocate of having a defense first 1b, but if the option arises to get a 24 yr old left handed MLB ready, power hitting 1b then you have to do it. A .922 OPS and 67 bombs in 1300 minor league ABs is not something that comes everyday.[/quote']I love the move

 

Also' date=' notice something here. RJ was a disappointment last season. He is declining. He is injured. He was disposable.[/quote']Clemens is older and has taken to pitching only half seasons. From 36-40, Clemens only averaged 15 wins inthe AL. I don't see him being more effective 4 years later, but he would fit the 5th slot nicely for the Red Sox. Unit won 33 games over the last two years and his bloated ERA last year was largely attributable to his disc problem.

And another thing this does 700, and this should worry you the most. It allows the yankees to create a corps of young pitchers in the minors surrounding Hughes. Which means that the yankees may actually be able to keep Phil Hughes, insert him into the rotation between 07 and 08 and have enough minor league pitching to make a push for a young, proven starter at the deadline or in the next off season. Quality, high level minor league arms are worth their weight in gold when trade time comes.

I'll worry about Hughes when the Yanks bring him up. Maybe he will be special, but I'm not overly concerned with the Yankees gathering up trading chips for proven talent. I like the strategy. If the Red Sox were making these moves I'd be fuming. I'm glad you like this new direction. We can both agree on that.

I have said before, I think this yankee team is being molded from steinbrenner era buy everything and then buy some more to a team that will be very good right now and has the flexibility to be another dynasty. Both with the cash in the FO's pocket and with the prospects in the yankee cupboard to groom or to deal.

Don't count on another Dynasty so soon. As soon as Mo goes into decline, the playoffs will no longer be an every year occurrence.

[jacksonianmarch]

well, good talk. Just. Keep on. Just keep on truckin.

http://www.cinema.com/image_lib/5667_011_thumb.jpg

 

Goodnight 700.

[a700hitter]

well, good talk. Just. Keep on. Just keep on truckin.

http://www.cinema.com/image_lib/5667_011_thumb.jpg

 

Goodnight 700.

I'll say a liittle prayer tonight that Unit is a D-Back by ST.

[jacksonianmarch]

I love the move

 

Clemens is older and has taken to pitching only half seasons. From 36-40, Clemens only averaged 15 wins inthe AL. I don't see him being more effective 4 years later, but he would fit the 5th slot nicely for the Red Sox. Unit won 33 games over the last two years and his bloated ERA last year was largely attributable to his disc problem. I'll worry about Hughes when the Yanks bring him up. Maybe he will be special, but I'm not overly concerned with the Yankees gathering up trading chips for proven talent. I like the strategy. If the Red Sox were making these moves I'd be fuming. I'm glad you like this new direction. We can both agree on that. Don't count on another Dynasty so soon. As soon as Mo goes into decline, the playoffs will no longer be an every year occurrence.

 

Clemens in 05 wore down in the playoffs and had to come out of his last world series game. Clemens in 03 was a shell of his former self come playoff time and it took a miraculous 8h inning comeback for him not to be a goat. Then he proceeded to blow away the marlins in the playoffs. In 04 he didnt have much left in the tank and was beaten by Suppan in the deciding game.

 

In 2003, his ERA was 0.6 runs per 9 higher after the AS break

 

In 2004, Roger's era was 0.8 runs per 9 higher after the AS break.

 

In 2005, Roger's era was a full run higher after the AS break

 

In 2006, his ERA was 0.7 runs per 9 LOWER after the AS break and he put up a .179 BAA in september.

 

So if he wants to play a partial season, then fine. I had wanted to groom Rasner or Karstens as trade bait anyway or for the future in our organization if they have one. An open competition for the 5 hole in ST between Pavano, Rasner, and Karstens followed by the acquisition of the rocket would make our 5 hole pretty damn good and allow us to at least see what we have in Pavano and the kids.

 

It also allows us the ability to get out from Pavano as well if needed. If Pavano proves he is healthy in ST and has a good start to the season, then we might be able to move him before the time bomb on some body part goes off.

[jacksonianmarch]

USA today is reporting that the package will be 2 minor league pitchers and a reliever, probably Brandon Medders. Therefore, the need for Monkeybitch as the 1b is apparent. Sounds like the DBacks didnt want to give up Carter.

[Mr Crunchy]

if randy needs a ride to laguardia let me know

i can be in the bronx in 2.5 hours and i will pay for his flight

[a700hitter]

if randy needs a ride to laguardia let me know

i can be in the bronx in 2.5 hours and i will pay for his flight

I'll carry his bags.

[Mr Crunchy]

fukin ayyy man

if this flies and jd drew's yeast infection is treated properly and kato shows up and pitches like all the geniouses say he will??

 

the sox had a great offseason

[a700hitter]

fukin ayyy man

if this flies and jd drew's yeast infection is treated properly and kato shows up and pitches like all the geniouses say he will??

 

the sox had a great offseason

...and the Yankees will have traded a future Hall of Famer, a borderline future Hall of Famer, and an 11 game winning starter for prospects. I gotta like that for 2007.

[Mr Crunchy]

and they havent gotten anything back

nor have they landed their usual best pitcher and best player on the market this year??

 

wtf is going on here

[a700hitter]

and they havent gotten anything back

nor have they landed their usual best pitcher and best player on the market this year??

 

wtf is going on here

I don't know, but I am liking it.

 

Edit: If they have decided to look to the future, I am fine with that. By the time the future gets here, Jeter and Mo will be over the hill.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

and they havent gotten anything back

nor have they landed their usual best pitcher and best player on the market this year??

 

wtf is going on here

 

That's how you can tell Cash is running the show now. So far I like it, but I am a little worried about this year, depending on how the Clemens situation pans out..

[a700hitter]

That's how you can tell Cash is running the show now. So far I like it' date=' but I am a little worried about this year, depending on how the Clemens situation pans out..[/quote']It would be a real kick in the ass if you trade Unit and Clemens goes to Houston or worse, Boston.

[jacksonianmarch]

I wouldnt be worried about this team because of the RJ deal. This team is making the playoffs. They will get at least durability from their top 4 and with the pen and the offense, they'll easily make the playoffs. The question is, how will they do in the playoffs. That is my concern. That is not a question that can be answered right now. That all depends on how Pettitte does, if Clemens comes back etc. I am relatively assured that our top 2 can battle with any other team's top 2. After that, in a playoff series, we'll see.

[Mr Crunchy]

they did need to rebuild

no doubt

but at the risk of being overly optimistic i feel trading their best hitter and their biggest sox killer in rj really is a sign that cashman is running the program

and all this post season losing has fried steinbrenner into the fetal position and hes now a shell of himself

 

despite my utter distaste and pure unadulterated hatred for steinbrenner,his teams,his mouth and the corrupt way he ran his team

i kind of wish he died tragically in a plane crash rather than waste away piece by piece into oblivion like hes doing now

 

when i saw 15,000 sox fans singing sweet caroline after game 7 in 2004 and steinbrenner left the lites on for them to party

it was the end for him

sort of like the straw that broke the camels back

 

anyone notice they played sinatra's version of ny ny that evening rather than liza minellis which usually follows a loss??

[jacksonianmarch]

I thought it was a very classy move by a typically classless guy, especially towards the sox. I truly feel that he was so enraged that he sent out an internal memo to get RJ. Once he got him, and we failed miserably again, I think he finally saw what his meddling hands had done. I still feel that he was never satisfied with the success, if we won 114 games, he wanted 116. If we won 11 of 12 playoff games, he wanted a sweep of all series. His insatiable appetite was fueled by the new bandwagon Yankee fans who wanted to see the long ball rather than a fundamentally sound team 1-9 on the field, in the lockerroom and at the plate. That is Steinbrenners biggest flaw. He sold the soul of his team to have the big name (offensively for the most part). With his soul went the chemistry. The clutch factor. The unbeatable facade that the yankees maintained for a span of 6 years. Only a supreme effort was enough to fell the mighty yankees in 97 and 01. Now, the lowly angels and tigers easily tamed the yankees of the past 2 years. Hence, I think Cashman has been given 100% full control. With steinny's wallet and Cashman's brain, this team can easily become a long term force for years to come, rather than cycle into an unsustainable crash course of big spending on players well past their prime.

 

Now while I say that above, I advocate Clemens signing. Mostly because he still has something left and we will only get him for one season. Long enough for these kids in the minors to get their legs under em and come up or be integral in a trade for a young starter.

 

Now if Big Stein was in office. Zito would be a Yankee for the next 8 yrs. Robby Cano and Chien Ming would be in Florida and Beckett would be a yankee (thank god that didnt happen). Sheff and RJ would still be aging, injured malcontents and our farm system would be shot to s*** as Hughes likely would have been traded for a shmoke and a pancake.

[Mr Crunchy]

evidently youve been watching for a while jack

 

it all goes back to reggie doesnt it??

 

everyone forgets the chris chamblis's and the roy whites and the willie randolphs and the bobby murcers and the alvaro espinozas and ya.....thurmon too

 

everyone forgets that kenny holtzman and jim hunter and rawley eastwick and don gullet and andy messersmith were failures in the grand scheme of things as well

 

it was the dick tidrows and the ed figueroa's and the sparky lyles that got them the 2 titles in the late 70s along with a great game 6 by reggie in 77

[a700hitter]

With steinny's wallet and Cashman's brain' date=' this team can easily become a long term force for years to come, rather than cycle into an unsustainable crash course of big spending on players well past their prime.[/quote']Yada yada yada. As Mo goes so goes the Yankees post season chances. C'mon Father time. Do your stuff.

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070103/SPORTS01/701030371/1108/SPORTS01

 

sounds like the two pitching prospects are going to be Owings and Ohlendorf.

 

Owings, drafted in 2005 is a 6'5" pitcher with a bulldog mentality. He throws 4 solid pitches, none of them top shelf, but has plus command and control. His fastball is said to sit near 92-93. He was 10-0 last season in AAA and was 16-2 overall between AA and AAA. The big knock on Owings is that he "puts his all into every pitch" so he might be a future reliever.

 

Ohlendorf is a guy who they seem to like over Dustin Nippert. He is a low 90s sinkerballer with pinpoint control and a strong frame. He is a guy who looks to be a mid rotation pitcher who will eat innings. He is a poor man's Chien Ming Wang as his sinker is about 3-5mph slower.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yada yada yada. As Mo goes so goes the Yankees post season chances. C'mon Father time. Do your stuff.

 

2004 was a year that I would have rather had a bullpen full of young arms than one pitcher who couldnt shoulder the load all by himself. Mo will retire some day. Someone will close for us in the future. There will be a difference, no doubt. But if Cash builds a good bullpen soup to nuts, then the loss should not be as shaking as you think. Since Mo has been the closer and since LuGo's dinker fell through in 01, we have neglected bullpen. Mo at the end, s*** in the middle. We can afford to do that with Mariano cause he'll clean up the s***. When Mo goes, he cannot be replaced by one man, but he certainly is not a guy whose retirement will send us to impending doom. Hence, Cashman is building for that day. He has some real solid young arms that are under control for awhile. If we get Medders, that will help too. By the time Mo retires, these kids may be stable enough to hold the middle of the pen while we undoubtedly go out and get a closer, or develop one from within.

[a700hitter]

When Mo goes' date=' he cannot be replaced by one man, but he certainly is not a guy whose retirement will send us to impending doom.[/quote']You have been spoiled. Mo is a one of a kind. You'll never see his likes again. When he leaves or slips, the negative impact on the organization will be tremendous, no matter how great of a job Cashman does.

[jacksonianmarch]

It will be tremendous. The only way to make it less tremendous would be to build an entire bullpen rather than Mo and these other shitbums. A loaded pen will make Mo's departure less painful. A s*** pen and this team will collapse.

[jacksonianmarch]

btw, interesting thought in the bergen record today.

 

According to one National League scout, Owings is better than any of the three pitchers the Yankees received from the Tigers for Sheffield -- including right-hander Humberto Sanchez, who was the key to the deal.

[jacksonianmarch]

they did need to rebuild

no doubt

but at the risk of being overly optimistic i feel trading their best hitter and their biggest sox killer in rj really is a sign that cashman is running the program

and all this post season losing has fried steinbrenner into the fetal position and hes now a shell of himself

 

 

I got caught up on the last part of this post, and I never responded to the intent of it. I find the need to rebuild overblown. They dont need to rebuild from a team that won 97 games. What they need to do is to get back to what worked. Look at the rotations from 96-01 and you see a smattering of youth and age.

 

In 96, Pettitte, Cone and Key were their big 3. That is the one year that they got 171 innings worth of pure domination from Mo and Wetteland. And they got 100+ innings of slop work from Mendoza

 

In 97, it was Pettitte, Wells, and Cone while they had quite possibly the best bullpen they ever had. Mo was sub 2, Stanton, Boehringer, and Nelson were sub 3 and Lloyd was at 3.3 while Mendoza ate 130 innings of swing/spot slop.

 

In 98, it was Pettitte, Wells, Duque, Cone and Irabu that were flat out dominant (yes Irabu was good for one yr). Rivera, Holmes and Nelson were fantastic in the pen and Mendoza at 130 innings of slop work again.

 

In 99, duque and cone were the best pitchers, but Clemens and Pettitte ate innings. Rivera, Grimsley, and Stanton were great in the pen and Mendoza at 130 innings of slop work yet again.

 

In 00, Clemens, Pettitte, and El Duque were reliable while Coney spit the bit. Mendoza only was at 65 innings. Rivera had his worst career yr and Nelson was strong.

 

In 01, Clemens, Pettitte, and Mussina were fantastic. Mendoza cracked 100 innings again, Rivera was great and Stanton was very good.

 

In 02, they had 6 solid starters until George dealt for Weaver. Mussina, Wells, Pettitte, El Duque, and Clemens were fantastic. Rivera missed a lot of time, but Stanton, Karsay and Mendoza ate 250 innings of bullpen combined and were fantastic.

 

In 03, the yankees got 842 innings from Clemens, Pettitte, Mussina and Wells. Mariano was fantastic but nobody was there to eat a huge load of innings like Mendoza had been for so long. They relied on guys like Hammond and Osuna who had good numbers, but were horrible in close situations. Karsay was down for the count. This was the beginning of the end. The pen was horribly misshapen, but the slack was picked up by the rotation.

 

In 04, no starter broke 200 innings and no starter (aside from the 15 starts el duque made) was below a 4ERA. Mariano and Gordon were fantastic and Quantrill ate innings, but the pen couldnt bear the weight of the lack of a reliable, durable, effective starter and fell in the choke of the century. Honestly, I have no idea how this team was 3 outs away from the WS. With this pitching, this team shouldnt have made the playoffs.

 

In 05, RJ was the only constant and the only guy above 200IP. Mussina pitched in with 172 innings of reliable but unimpressive work. Aaron Small and Shawn Chacon became household names for a bit. Pavano, Mussina, Brown, Wright and Wang spent significant time on the DL. The bullpen was 2 men deep.

 

In 06, RJ and Wang broke 200IP. Mussina was right there with 197. RJ declined, Mussina surged and Wang became the young ace. Proctor assumed the position that nobody was able to fill since Mendoza signed, but he was doing double duty in a setup role. The pen was better and has promise. The rotation needed an overhaul as the 4 and 5 slots sucked and the 3 was 200IP of crap performance.

 

To get back to the old days, we just need durability out of the rotation and a good bullpen. Every yankee team from 96 to 02 had a rotation with three durable starters for the most part. Not all 3 were fantastic, they slipped to and fro over time, but were not overly dominant. No starter had a sub 3 era since 97, but they took the hill. The bullpen had a slop guy who ate a ton of innings (Mendoza). The bullpen also had at least Mo and a solid setup man. And the offense was good enough to win.

 

Then we turned the page to all offense, only Mo in the pen and a HORRIBLE rotation in 04. Last season's pen and rotation were much improved, but we need more out of our 4 and 5.

 

My long winded, overly drawn out point is that the yankees have recognized their issue. They had nobody to come up to pitch from the minors. They relied on retreads who were not good and paid through the nose for them. So he is now developing his pitching or trading for it, before it gets expensive. Which means, other teams find these guys attractive too. By harnessing a crop of pitching in the minors, he leaves the toughest part of being a baseball GM up to his development staff instead of hoping and praying for a guy coming off a career yr to translate it to NY after signing a contract that sets them up for life and then some.

[jacksonianmarch]

People around baseball don't see much chance that the Yankees will bring back Randy Johnson after going to all this trouble to be rid of him. As reported in this space Saturday, excising Johnson will enhance their chances to land Roger Clemens, who they'd like to get on the field much earlier than when he started in 2006 (June 22), maybe even in April or early May. But if Clemens does come, don't expect him to agree to spend his whole spring in Tampa with the team.

 

• The Yankees have turned down Arizona's request to have a window to work out an extension, but that shouldn't prevent the D'backs from doing a deal with Johnson. A one-year extension for $10-12 million shouldn't be that complicated.

 

• If the Yankees get the package they want -- say Ross Ohlendorf, Micah Owings and Luis Vizcaino -- they may be willing to pay a few million toward Johnson's $16 million 2006 salary. But if they get only two of the players on their A-list, they'd want Arizona to pay the full salary.

 

 

no negotiating window for the dbacks. Take it or leave it is what Cash is conveying.

[a700hitter]

...excising Johnson will enhance their chances to land Roger Clemens

I don't know the source of this quote but it is inherently illogical. Why would this enhance the chances of the Yankees getting Clemens? If the Yankees wanted to go after him, were they any less likely to get him because Johnson was on the team? Presumably, the Yankees have more than enough money to pay Johnson and Clemens. If they wanted Clemens, the only thing impeding their chances of getting him is whether Houston wants him and the Rocket chooses to stay home, or he chooses to exploit the ,marketing opportunities in NE. These impediments remain whether or not Unit stays. I might agree that the Yankees will be more likely to pursue Clemens if Unit is traded, but if they want Clemens, trading Unit doesn't "enhance" their chances of getting Clemens.

[Mr Crunchy]

well i dont think phoenix will dump their future for rj

i do think the yanks and arizona are sincere on making a deal

why would arizona bail when they know how deep ny's pockets are??

 

is randy johnson a matinee idol type?

ive seen better faces on hemmroids

plus hes a f***ing prick and hes ancient

 

as i said

i will drive rj and pay for his flight to phoenix

.700 will carry his bags and i suspect david ortiz would blow him thru the tunnel into queens but this isnt going to be as ez as pie i fear

i do want him in arizona

[Cityofchampions33]

The Yanks must be pretty sure they're landing Clemens if they make this deal, and that's what worries me. However, they could be leaning too much on Pavano and one of their prospects to perform well this season. So from our standpoint it's 50/50 this is good for us.