RJ back to the Diamondbacks??

[Fried Neckbones]

It appears NY not only has a teflon SS' date=' but it also has a teflon GM. Every bad move gets pinned on Tampa, every successful one goes on the ledger for $$man. I think we, as Sox fans, should do the same thing. Lucchino can be the fall guy. Thoughts?[/quote']

 

Have you read "Feeding the Monster" yet? Mnookin pretty much writes that exact scenario, down to the Lucchino as fall guy angle.

[riverside sluggers]

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-spyanks0104b,0,1001758.story?coll=ny-main-bigpix

 

Randy Johnson has agreed to an extension thru 2008 with Arizona. Also its been established that the Yankees would receive Luis Vizcaino (not Brandon Medders). The # of prospects will be sorted out when it comes clear how much New York is willing to fork over

[jacksonianmarch]

I just woke up and saw that. Vizcaino is a better reliever for right now, but he is 1 yr from FA and due a significant pay raise. Not terribly excited about him vs Medders.

 

As for the other players they receive, I sure hope they eat some cash here so they get 2 pitching prospects.

[elsrbueno]

I just woke up and saw that. Vizcaino is a better reliever for right now, but he is 1 yr from FA and due a significant pay raise. Not terribly excited about him vs Medders.

 

As for the other players they receive, I sure hope they eat some cash here so they get 2 pitching prospects.

 

Of course you'd say that if that's the player who could potentially be wearing pinstripes.

 

Vizcaino's a mid 3's reliever in the NL West, which IMO makes him a mid 4's reliever in the AL East. He's 32 which means he's at the tail end of his prime, more expensive. He's got better strikeout numbers at the MLB level than Medders did (which is in his favor), but Medders is 26 (which means he's entering his peak) and has a decent minor league track record.

 

Personally I'd rather have Medders at this stage of their career. IMO, he's a better short term and long term option.

[jacksonianmarch]

Not true there el sr. Vizcaino has been in 3 stops in the past 3 yrs. MIL, CWS, and ARI. In all 3 stops, he had a very similar ERA (3.75 to 3.73 to 3.58) and his 02 numbers were stellar (2.99ERA). What I am trying to say is that this guy has more to offer us TODAY. Lower walk total, lower WHIP, more experience, and experience with AL pitcher. But I am saying he is NOT who I want out of this deal. A 32 yr old power reliever with essentially a 1 yr contract. Those prospects better net something, either future rotation fillers or as trade bait, cause losing Medders from this deal makes the MLB reap pretty weak. Medders would have been under yankee control for 4 more yrs. Vizcaino would have hit FA as soon as RJ did. Again, I would expect Vizcaino to be a better reliever in 2007 as he has the experience and the stuff. But I dont like him as the only MLB player coming back.

[Mr Crunchy]

and i didnt have to pick up the air fare and ride into laguardia??

mitt romney leaves boston

randy johnson leaves ny

n.d humuliated again

and the gop loses control of congress

 

all on the same day??

christmans was 10 days ago wasnt it??

no wonder i only needed a minimul dose of painkillers this morning

[jacksonianmarch]

and i didnt have to pick up the air fare and ride into laguardia??

mitt romney leaves boston

randy johnson leaves ny

n.d humuliated again

and the gop loses control of congress

 

all on the same day??

christmans was 10 days ago wasnt it??

no wonder i only needed a minimul dose of painkillers this morning

 

all depends on the prospects now crunchy. If it is Vizcaino and Nippert alone I am gonna be f***in pissed.

[Mr Crunchy]

with schill and wake and manny likely in their last years here in boston i feel the window for the sox is now

of course come next year we still should have some pitching,i like what schill brings to the table competetivley

 

the departure of randy johnson is a great start

he owned our asses be it 2-1 or 7-6,didnt matter,he owned us

[Mr Crunchy]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/story/485496p-408773c.html

 

No deal is close enough that Johnson and his agents have been asked for their approval, according to two baseball officials. Johnson has a full no-trade clause

 

premature ejaculation

[BudLight]

I like the Padres deal better if what is being reported is true. To add some icing, how about the Padres throw in Bard to be the heir apparent to Posada.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

In his first year with the Yankees, Randy Johnson was good against the Red Sox. Last year he was brutal. He had a 7 ERA against the Sox and he got his only 2 wins against them because Matt Clement and Josh Beckett both gave up like 9 runs.

[Mr Crunchy]

if im cashman and i need to move on this i take the sandiego offer

linebrink is a very sought after relief pitcher,much more so than jose""lite my fire""feliciano anyways

linebrink with rivera and corkey farnsworth will make the bullpen better and deeper

[VA Sox Fan]

I like the Padres deal better if what is being reported is true. To add some icing' date=' how about the Padres throw in Bard to be the heir apparent to Posada.[/quote']

 

 

Why not? They already have Myers, Damon, Mientkiewicz (had Embree) and have an interest in Loretta.

[jacksonianmarch]

if im cashman and i need to move on this i take the sandiego offer

linebrink is a very sought after relief pitcher,much more so than jose""lite my fire""feliciano anyways

linebrink with rivera and corkey farnsworth will make the bullpen better and deeper

 

the problem with Linebrink, and why I disagree with you is that his stuff faltered a little last yr and he fell off poorly at the end (4.4 plus ERA post AS). We dont need another Goron here.

[Mr Crunchy]

torre abused tommy gordon,who on his best day weighs 145lbs and had no business throwing as much as he did in meaningful situations

plus

hes been around so long

i saw him beat raja 2-1 in kansas city after bo jackson hit a 485ft tater off clemens into the waterfalls in the 8th inning and mark davis closed the game

clemens was a 170/100 favorite

i was collecting 226.00 a week in unemployment

1 of several reasons i f***ing hate raja clemens

[jacksonianmarch]

But if a guy is having trouble handling the workload in SD comes over here with what is considered declining stuff and numbers as the big piece of an RJ trade, doesnt that sound kinda bad?

[Mr Crunchy]

i think sd abused him as well

i think with villone and corkey and the best closer ever and myers etc that he could have the needed rest as opposed to sandiego where he was used essentially in every game they had a lead in

[BudLight]

Linebrink will have help in the Yankees pen and won't be relied upon to pitch every day as he is in SD. His decline late last season could simply be a result of overuse. I like his stuff and the Yankees are not the only team that have inquired about his services. He is well sought after. Of all the pitchers mentioned by both AZ and SD, he is the most proven commodity.

[Mr Crunchy]

agreed

of all the scatine mentioned in trade talks regarding pops johnson i think that linebrink brings the most to the table

now

how does this translate into yankee stadium??

 

bigger and better have folded like a gospel preachers tent outside a tijuana brothel at 3am so again,there are questions that havent been resolved and i certainly can speak for the sox in this regard as well

[jacksonianmarch]

Well, it looks like it wont be two prospects. Yahoo sports is saying that the deal will be Vizcaino and one of the trio of pitching prospects mentioned. Owings, the 2006 DBack minor league pitcher of the yr, happens to be Cashman's favorite of the bunch, so he is expected to be the one. It seems as if Cash was not content with eating more salary for another prospect.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-unit010407&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[BudLight]

Well, it looks like it wont be two prospects. Yahoo sports is saying that the deal will be Vizcaino and one of the trio of pitching prospects mentioned. Owings, the 2006 DBack minor league pitcher of the yr, happens to be Cashman's favorite of the bunch, so he is expected to be the one. It seems as if Cash was not content with eating more salary for another prospect.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-unit010407&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

 

 

If Vizcaino and 1 prospect with no money is the deal I believe Cashman should really consider the Padres offer of Linebrink and a prospect more closely.

[jacksonianmarch]

If Vizcaino and 1 prospect with no money is the deal I believe Cashman should really consider the Padres offer of Linebrink and a prospect more closely.

 

I dont think the padres can beat that offer if the prospect is Owings. That kid has the makeup to be something special for us. If the prospect is Nippert then I'd say F this.

[jacksonianmarch]

well, the yankees flipped it around again, or maybe it is just me doing circles in my head. WFAN is reporting that the yankees and dbacks have signed off on the players.

 

Coming to NY would be RHP Luis Vizcaino, RHP Ross Ohlendorf, RHP Steven Jackson (not THAT one), and SS Alberto Gonzalez.

 

Ohlendorf is described as a sinkerball pitcher with the capability to eat a lot of innings. He is predicted as a middle of the rotation pitcher. He will start the yr in AAA.

 

Steven Jackson is probably the one the yankees wanted over Nippert. He has a plus fastball and a plus plus slider. His power led him to a 2.65ERA in 150IP in AA last yr. The reason why he has not really been a highly known name is that he has command issues. His control is fine (low BB rates), but the command is not. He is said to rely too often on overpowering a hitter with the fastball when his offspeed stuff is off, which will make him vulnerable on the next level when he has trouble locating the slider (sounds familiar, Beckett 06 maybe?). His 3rd pitch is a changeup which is still considered a MLB pitch, but is far below his fastball and slider. He is a high risk, high reward prospect. If they passed on Owings, who was likely the safest bet of all the DBacks pitchers to make the bigs but did not have an ace ceiling, then Cashman is taking a big risk. Jackson is a big pitcher at 6'5" and fits the mold of a pitcher who could eventually be a top of the rotation starter, but with questions continuing about his command and his age getting to the upper limits of prospect status, his time is running out. He will round out the AAA rotation with Hughes, Clippard, Sanchez, and Ohlendorf.

 

Alberto Gonzalez sounds like Rafael Belliard to me. Absolutely no power, but has some ability to reach base (.356OBP last yr). But he is considered the best fielding SS in the DBack system, and if their scouts are correct, he may be one of the best fielders in all of the minors. Either way, he projects out by the DBack people as a future SS/2B, but he really sounds like a late inning defensive replacement with no stealing ability.

 

If that is the trade, then I'm fine with it. I want pitching in return, Jackson and Ohlendorf have the track record of durability and success in the minors. Both are ticketed for AAA and maybe onto other things too. If I had the choice, I would have taken Owings over Ohlendorf, but I have a feeling that the pitcher with the best upside (Jackson) and the pitcher with the best shot of making it in a big league rotation (Owings) were not coming in a package deal.

[Gom]

The fact that the Yankees have cleared 22.4 million by trading away Randy Johnson [including luxury tax] and got ANYONE in return is amazing.

 

The fact that Randy Johnson is not going to be ready for the start of the season is something else as well. The Yankees have shaved payroll, added depth to their bullpen, gotten younger, increased their overall depth. In return, they gave up a very quickly declining pitcher coming off of major back surgery who wouldn't be ready at the start of the season. Wait, they also acquired a few quality prospects as well.

 

You can throw out any stats you want here. The truth is that Randy Johnson is no longer a good pitcher. Karstens, Rasner, Pavano [LOL!] or Igawa can be reasonably counted on to give the same/better results as RJ did last year, or to be reasonably expected this year.

 

There is a point with players where their ability drops precipitously. I believe RJ is there. He had a 2.65 ERA in the two years before joining the Yankees. His two year average in NY is 4.36, with last year being 5.00.

 

The Yankees, contrary to opinion here, have gotten better with this deal in 2007. They also have stockpiled an enormous amount of talent that can either be cultivated or traded away at the deadline.

 

As for my fellow Yankee fans, don't size up Clemens just yet. Don't count your chicks before they hatch.

[He Hate Me]

bleh...I think we coulda done better. I'll hold off until its' actually finalized becuase I'm hearing different things about how the prospects aren't determined yet.

[Gom]

The deal is fine. It's more than we should have gotten. The only reason the Diamondbacks make the deal is because they need a draw after getting rid of Luis Gonzalez.

[jacksonianmarch]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6308886?FSO1&ATT=HMA

 

DONE!! The 72 hour window has been opened as the deal has been submitted to the commish's office as tentative. Any deal submitted as tentative gives the teams 72 hours to sort out contract and money back and forth, but players usually do not change.

 

Final score-

Gonzalez, Jackson, Ohlendorf, and Vizcaino. Score one for the good guys.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

finally. Now we can sit around wait for clemens to sign somewhere.

[a700hitter]

I love this deal.

[Optimist]

I love this deal.

 

Why? Now you can't keep track of how close or how far over 5.00 the Unit's ERA is; you really enjoyed doing that this season.