Who's on Second?

[riverside sluggers]

Cool the Youkilis treatment, leave him down in Pawtucket to rot until he's 27

[a700hitter]

Cool the Youkilis treatment' date=' leave him down in Pawtucket to rot until he's 27[/quote']Let him win the job like Youklis did against J.T. Snow. You don't hand the kid the job with no backup plan. Alex Cora is not a backup plan.

[riverside sluggers]

?

 

JT Snow was brought in to be a backup, maybe some platooning. He wasnt brought in to compete for 1st base with Youk

[seabeachfred]

This is getting to sound like the same old Red Sox s***; sign young players and then get rid of them or let them rot in the minors and keep patching patching and patching. Pedroia deserves a full shot at second and he must have it. Giles was absolutely crappy this year and really hasn't been good for the last two. We are starting to act like the Yankees. We talk of our prospects but don't want to let them have a chance. We kept dicking Youk around for two years before we gave him his chance. Let someone else have Giles. Pedroia is our second baseman and I will bet you he will do a good job for us. The kid can play; I have seen him play; I like the way he plays; he has been successful every step he has taken in pro ball. Leave the kid alone. Pardon me but screw Giles.

[seabeachfred]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Let him win the job like Youklis did against J.T. Snow. You don't hand the kid the job with no backup plan. Alex Cora is not a backup plan.

 

Sorry 700, but backup plan my ass. Pedroia is ready and sometimes you have to shoot the craps and take a flyer on a young players. All teams do it but we seem to be very reluctant to. Well this is the time we have to do. It worked with Youk after the team deeked him around for two years, it will work with Pedroia and it will work with Ellsbury in 2008. What the hell to we have a farms system for anyway if we are just going to give our young players away for veteran trash. We need a closer. We don't need a second baseman, and I wish those who keep harping on Giles or signing some free agent would do me a favor and shut up. Dustin is going to be a solid player for us. Make book on it.:thumbsup:

[a700hitter]

?

 

JT Snow was brought in to be a backup, maybe some platooning. He wasnt brought in to compete for 1st base with Youk

Then bring in someone to platoon with Pedroia, but he should not be handed the full-time job.

[a700hitter]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

Sorry 700, but backup plan my ass. Pedroia is ready and sometimes you have to shoot the craps and take a flyer on a young players. All teams do it but we seem to be very reluctant to. Well this is the time we have to do. It worked with Youk after the team deeked him around for two years, it will work with Pedroia and it will work with Ellsbury in 2008. What the hell to we have a farms system for anyway if we are just going to give our young players away for veteran trash. We need a closer. We don't need a second baseman, and I wish those who keep harping on Giles or signing some free agent would do me a favor and shut up. Dustin is going to be a solid player for us. Make book on it.:thumbsup:

Fred you must still be on some Dice-k high or rush. A couple of days before he signed you were out on a ledge ready leap. Now you are brimming with confidence that the midget second baseman with no plus skills and a sub-Mendoza line BA with 91ML ABs is ready for the full time job with no contingency plan. There's an available all star second baseman with a low price tag. I think you pick him up, and if the midgedt is as good as some of you think he is, he should do well enough to send the veteran packing.

[castigs850]

i agree with 700 i dont like the idea of a rookie just being given the job, especially seeing as he didnt do much special last year ( i know i know not a good sample size) but if no one is even looking at loretta you might as well get him even if just to give pedrioa something to play for in spring training

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Dustin Pedroia vs. Marcus Giles vs. Mark Loretta......go with Pedroia....he plays with emotion, is only 23, and showed signs last year of being a good hitter. Give the kid time and he could be better than both Giles and Loretta.

[Fried Neckbones]

Dustin Pedroia vs. Marcus Giles vs. Mark Loretta......go with Pedroia....he plays with emotion' date=' is only 23, and showed signs last year of being a good hitter. Give the kid time and he could be better than both Giles and Loretta.[/quote']

 

Agreed, Schill. Not to mention the fact that he has been a good to great player at every level he has played at so far. I don't see the problem with giving a rookie the starting job out of the gate, which seems to be the biggest argument put forth against Pedroia. I'm not looking for an All-Star here, just someone who can play a decent 2b and hit 9th better than Alex Cora. Pedroia is the man for the job.

[Cocos Disciples]

I agree. No real need to spend a lot more money on someone who isn't going to produce signifigantly better than Pedroia. He's not an All-Star but hes a fine young player who can field his position and carries a decent bat...we wouldn't be getting that much better numbers from a Giles or a Loretta, but they'd definitely cost more. Spend the money elsewhere.

[Plumpamania]

How are we so sure of ourselves on Pedroia?

 

.305/.384/.426/.810

 

In 423 AB's in 111 games in AAA and a sub Mendoza line in 91 AB's at the MLB level.

 

I'm by no means ready to just say "Hey Dustin, here's a starting job on one of the most prestigous teams ever. Don't worry about your average year at AAA or your s*** job at the MLB level!"

 

Let's be serious. He's not 25 yet, he could benefit from another year of AAA. His OBP will stay with him at the MLB level, but I'd like to see a little more pop at AAA before we make him a full time player at the MLB level.

[a700hitter]

Dustin Pedroia vs. Marcus Giles vs. Mark Loretta......go with Pedroia....he plays with emotion' date=' is only 23, and showed signs last year of being a good hitter. Give the kid time and he could be better than both Giles and Loretta.[/quote']How much time does he need... a month, two months? The Fo is putting together a win it all now team. They can't afford to suffer the growing pains of an average kid. It would be one thing if he was a can't miss kid with major tools, but he's not. He's a little guy with a big swing. That's a terrible combo. He has average speed at best. He has an average arm and slightly above average range.

[example1]

How much time does he need... a month' date=' two months? The Fo is putting together a win it all now team. They can't afford to suffer the growing pains of an average kid. It would be one thing if he was a can't miss kid with major tools, but he's not. He's a little guy with a big swing. That's a terrible combo. He has average speed at best. He has an average arm and slightly above average range.[/quote']

 

Since when is the 2003 NCAA Defensive Player of the Year "average" in the field? He was a first-team all american, not some little guy that we discovered playing in a corn-field in Iowa someplace. This guy has the tools. 2004 Golden Spikes award finalist, won by Jared Weaver and including Stephen Head of Mississippi, Wade Townsend from Rice and Huston Street from Texas.

 

College? Yeah, it was college. Have his numbers dipped tremendously in his pro seasons? Nope. He looks like a guy who can get a nice OBP and above average defense at 2B. If you have a "win now" team it never hurts to have guys who get on consistently and make above average plays behind solid pitching. Give the kid a break and accept that he's going to get a shot.

[jacksonianmarch]

Not trying to be a homer here, but I thought what the yankees did with Cano was the best way to break a young starter in. They started the season with Tony Womack as their starting 2b. Cano started at AAA and got a red hot start. Once Tony Wo started swooning, they brought Cano up and he continued his hot streak. Starting a kid out of the gate in the majors is an easy way to lose his confidence for the entire season. Let him start in AAA, get about a month's worth of dominance in and then at the start of a long roadtrip, bring him up.

[Plumpamania]

Not trying to be a homer here' date=' but I thought what the yankees did with Cano was the best way to break a young starter in. They started the season with Tony Womack as their starting 2b. Cano started at AAA and got a red hot start. Once Tony Wo started swooning, they brought Cano up and he continued his hot streak. Starting a kid out of the gate in the majors is an easy way to lose his confidence for the entire season. Let him start in AAA, get about a month's worth of dominance in and then at the start of a long roadtrip, bring him up.[/quote']

 

I agree with what you said, but Cano was always known as a hitter first, never a fielder.

 

Pedroia has always been known to be a glove first and OBP next.

 

I think a full year of AAA is just fine.

[seabeachfred]

700, yes I am still a little on a high and you read me right, but everyone who is dissing Pedroia is making a terrible mistake in my mind. He came up last August when we were in a rash of injured players but instead of playing him steady he was yanked out of the lineup and back in, put in the ninth hole, and moved into the second hole by our hairbrained manager. Look I have seen this kid play a lot of ball and if my experience as a bird dog for three scouts means anything at all, take it from me, this kid can play. He can hit, field, and bring an intensity to the team that is badly needed. He must be given the job. He will not lose it. Let Giles and his roids go somewhere else. He is starting to resemble Brett Boone in too many many to make me want to have him around. Anyway, thanks to those of you are Pedroia fans. I really believe we will be proven right and then some.

[jacksonianmarch]

but do you think it is in his best interests mentally to start a season off in the majors rather than get him hot in AAA then bring him up mid season, preferably on the road in a place that really doesnt care about baseball (TB of all places).

[Cocos Disciples]

YOU'RE WELCOME!

[Cocos Disciples]

but do you think it is in his best interests mentally to start a season off in the majors rather than get him hot in AAA then bring him up mid season' date=' preferably on the road in a place that really doesnt care about baseball (TB of all places).[/quote']

 

Or let him get hot in ST then insert him in April in a place that really doesnt care about baseball (KC?)

 

[seabeachfred]

Friends, I'll be the first to admit that I certainly don't know it all, and, believe me, I have made some doozies in the past. However, I will go out on a limb with Pedroia. Give that young man a solid spring of about 40-50 at bats and let him settle in and we won't have to bring this topic up again. Listen to this. He missed ALL of ST last season and wasn't in the lineup at Pawtucket until the second week of the season, and rusty as hell got off to a slow start----in the 220's and 230's. Once he got his rust away he tore through the league and actually raised his average to 305. His fielding was excellent as well. He doesn't need anymore seasoning. He has hit at the A, AA and AAA level. He has nothing more to prove down there and we would be doing a diservice to the kid to send him back down and give a two year flop like Giles a shot to take over second for the next two years. We let Loretta go and he's better than Giles in my book. Dustin's time is now. Let him play and let him show what a good ballplayer he is going to be. Again, I could be wrong, but I will bet anyone on it. I am that confident of this kid. Remember, I have seen him perform and perform well.

[seabeachfred]

YOU'RE WELCOME!

 

Coco, just registered for your other website. Hope they like a old war horse on that board and one who is sometimes crazier than a loon over his Red Sox. Thanks again. :D

[a700hitter]

Since when is the 2003 NCAA Defensive Player of the Year "average" in the field? He was a first-team all american' date=' not some little guy that we discovered playing in a corn-field in Iowa someplace. This guy has the tools. 2004 Golden Spikes award finalist, won by Jared Weaver and including Stephen Head of Mississippi, Wade Townsend from Rice and Huston Street from Texas.[/quote']I said his range was a little above average and that his arm is average. I didn't say he was average in the field. Brooks Robinson had an average arm and slightly better than average range. I don't think I stated anything inaccurately about him.

College? Yeah' date=' it was college. Have his numbers dipped tremendously in his pro seasons? Nope. He looks like a guy who can get a nice OBP and above average defense at 2B. If you have a "win now" team it never hurts to have guys who get on consistently and make above average plays behind solid pitching. Give the kid a break and accept that he's going to get a shot.[/quote']i am in no position to give this kid a break or not. I wish that I were in such a position. I don't know what you mean by give the kid a break. I don't boo our players, even the crappy ones. I'm also not in any position to not accept a move by the FO, because I have no control over their moves. I accept that they let Johnny Damon walk, but I'll always believe that it was a mistake. Similarly, I think it's a mistake to hand Pedroia the job from the beginning of ST with no competition for the job. That's my opinion. He's not a can't miss kid. Even if he does all right this year, I will still maintain that it was a mistake to give him the job as opposed to winning it. He's not Ryne Sandberg. But I don't know how my opinion has anything to do with giving him a break or not?

[Cocos Disciples]

Coco' date=' just registered for your other website. Hope they like a old war horse on that board and one who is sometimes crazier than a loon over his Red Sox. Thanks again. :D [/quote']

 

 

Wooord. I PM'd you.

 

:thumbsup:

[example1]

I said his range was a little above average and that his arm is average. I didn't say he was average in the field. Brooks Robinson had an average arm and slightly better than average range. I don't think I stated anything inaccurately about him.

 

You painted him to be at best average. I think at best he's above average, if not well above average and apparently the Sox do too.

 

i am in no position to give this kid a break or not. I wish that I were in such a position. I don't know what you mean by give the kid a break. I don't boo our players, even the crappy ones. I'm also not in any position to not accept a move by the FO, because I have no control over their moves. I accept that they let Johnny Damon walk, but I'll always believe that it was a mistake. Similarly, I think it's a mistake to hand Pedroia the job from the beginning of ST with no competition for the job. That's my opinion. He's not a can't miss kid. Even if he does all right this year, I will still maintain that it was a mistake to give him the job as opposed to winning it. He's not Ryne Sandberg. But I don't know how my opinion has anything to do with giving him a break or not?

 

He's not Ryne Sandberg. You think these numbers are reasonable for next year:?

 

.261/.316/.351, 8 HR, 25 2B and 48 RBI.

 

You think he can get a .667 OPS?

 

Those are Sandberg's numbers from 1983, his age 23 season and his SECOND full season in the bigs. Pedroia hasn't had a season in the bigs yet, but I imagine if he had and he put up those numbers you would have had him relegated to the bench.

 

Sandberg had a .796 career OPS. Think Pedroia can get that? I don't see it as unreasonable.

[a700hitter]

He's not Ryne Sandberg. You think these numbers are reasonable for next year:?

 

.261/.316/.351, 8 HR, 25 2B and 48 RBI.

 

You think he can get a .667 OPS?

 

Those are Sandberg's numbers from 1983, his age 23 season and his SECOND full season in the bigs. Pedroia hasn't had a season in the bigs yet, but I imagine if he had and he put up those numbers you would have had him relegated to the bench.

 

Sandberg had a .796 career OPS. Think Pedroia can get that? I don't see it as unreasonable.

Please adjust these stats for the differences between the eras. The league ERA s and BA's and other offensive stats were much lower. This comparison is not at all valid. Sandberg was a can't miss prospect with plus power, speed, arm etc. He had tools. And he became a HOFer thanks to those tools. Pedroia has no plus tools, none. Your comparison to a totally different era is no more valid that comparing his stats to those in the dead ball era.:thumbdown You lost credibility comparing this kid to a Hall of Famer.

[a700hitter]

You painted him to be at best average. I think at best he's above average' date=' if not well above average and apparently the Sox do too. [/quote']I painted his skills as average, which they are. Maybe he will be an above average fielder. SO is Alex Cora, and I don't think he should start either. Pedroia's skills are average. If you disagree, tell me which skills are above average.

[DUSTINMOHR4LIFE]

I painted his skills as average' date=' which they are. Maybe he will be an above average fielder. SO is Alex Cora, and I don't think he should start either. Pedroia's skills are average. If you disagree, tell me which skills are above average.[/quote']

 

His contact skills come to mind. He's only K'd 77 times in 1040 AB's in the minors.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

How much time does he need... a month' date=' two months? The Fo is putting together a win it all now team. They can't afford to suffer the growing pains of an average kid. It would be one thing if he was a can't miss kid with major tools, but he's not. He's a little guy with a big swing. That's a terrible combo. He has average speed at best. He has an average arm and slightly above average range.[/quote']

 

Last year Mark Loretta was struggling to hit .200 for the first month and a half. Somehow we got by and were in first place through the first half with him batting 2nd. Not to mention we had Alex Gonzalez batting 9th.

 

Dustin Pedroia can hit better than Alex Gonzalez. If our #9 hitter is batting .250....it will have no effect on our rankings in the standings.

 

Don't forget that Pedroia was coming on at the end of last season. I regret moving Hanley Ramirez.....and lots of people had just as high hopes (if not more) for Pedroia.

[jacksonianmarch]

the sox are always in first place early on. It isnt a season without the red sox in first on June 1st. I actually thnk that the sox have been in first place on June 1st every season since 1999. I heard that somewhere, not sure if it is substantiated.