Trading Manny

[riverside sluggers]

I realize that Manny is a pain in the ass sometimes, and he quit on the Sox last season. That was after you guys were out of it anyways. The guy came to play when you had a chance anyways.

 

Its not like Ortiz came back after a heart scare to play the rest of the season even though he knew the playoffs were far out of reach... no wait. Giving an excuse as "That was after you guys were out of it anyways." is rather pety

 

And he's being run out of town? Yea smells like ********. He's been asking out of Boston for quite awhile now. The contract he signed in 2001 was because he was looking for the biggest deal his agent could get for him. Not much was gone into researching the lifetsyle of being a sports star in Boston

[Gom]

Comparing Papi's heart to Manny isn't fair to Manny. Papi is like Jeter. A consummate professional [with only one example of idiocy that I remember].

 

Papi is what I would call the lunch pail guys [after Parcells coined it with the Giants in the 80's]. That guy would play ball for free on cement just to play ball.

 

Question for you, since the only time I ever went to Boston was to visit my girlfriend at the time, and we didn't do too much sightseeing...why do so many stars want out of Boston relative to NY? For the most part, when they come here, or come up through here, they stay here.

[Gom]

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0006VTMVQ.01-A189WN3T5ROVH._AA280_SCLZZZZZZZ_V65718625_.jpg

 

I'd never seen this. That's funny. It does show one thing...even with a World Series parade, you guys are still thinking about us.

 

Funny pic.

[Cocos Disciples]

We always think of you Gom...you have a special place in our hearts.

[a700hitter]

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0006VTMVQ.01-A189WN3T5ROVH._AA280_SCLZZZZZZZ_V65718625_.jpg

 

I'd never seen this. That's funny. It does show one thing...even with a World Series parade, you guys are still thinking about us.

 

Funny pic.

You have to understand that from the time we wake up in the morning to the time we go to sleep at night 365 days a year and 366 days in leap years we hate everything about the Yankees

[jacksonianmarch]

Comparing Papi's heart to Manny isn't fair to Manny. Papi is like Jeter. A consummate professional [with only one example of idiocy that I remember].

 

Papi is what I would call the lunch pail guys [after Parcells coined it with the Giants in the 80's]. That guy would play ball for free on cement just to play ball.

 

Question for you, since the only time I ever went to Boston was to visit my girlfriend at the time, and we didn't do too much sightseeing...why do so many stars want out of Boston relative to NY? For the most part, when they come here, or come up through here, they stay here.

 

Boston is a small big city if you will. It isnt the mammoth NYC. But there are a lot of people in that small city and in the surrounding area. Consider also that Fenway is a huge landmark for Boston and the fact that the fans are extremely passionate and you have a pressure cooker. Small space, fanatics, high pressure baseball. The great players can handle it, the not so great cannot.

[Beckett95]

well atleast we know the Sox are asking for a high price in return for Manny

 

According to the Akron Beacon Journal's Terry Pluto, the Red Sox asked for right-handers Adam Miller and Fausto Carmona and outfielder Trevor Crowe in conversations with the Guardians about Manny Ramirez.

 

The talks with the Guardians were believed to have taken place earlier this winter, and there's been no signs lately that they two teams are still discussing a deal. The Guardians can't afford to give up that much of their future for Manny.

[ThreeIfBaerga]

Good package, but I'd prefer at least one Major leaguer. Only Carmona is ready for the show, and he's not exactly the closer we need. Miller is good, but we've got a pretty stocked rotation as long as matsuzaka signs, and i understand the "you can never have too much pitching," but i wouldn't trade manny for depth. Crowe has potential to be a serious offensive threat either at CF or 2b, where ever you put him, but once again, he's not MLB ready, and thus not helping the 07 Sox.

 

I really feel that unless it helps the 07 sox, it doesn't make sense to trade manny. my hunch? they'll hold on to him, go for it in schillings, possibly wakefields, timlins, etc last year, then maybe try to shop him as a one year $19mil lf/dh, which could bring even more than this year, depending on how the market for power outfielders looks.

[BSN07]

Whatever they decide to do, I wish the decide it already and move on. Except an offer from someone, or come out and say he's under contract for us and he will be playing for us. The constant babble this subject causes and the ridculous rumors are becoming a bit boaring and warn out.

 

I'm all for talking rumors and enjoy it alot, but everyday it's something new and the reporter's reporting it seem to think it's solid info. But then the next day it's different then it was the day before. Either get solid facts or don't discuss it. It's getting annyoing hearing Buster Olney or Tim Kurkjan( sorry for butchering his name) flapping there gums about a possible Manny trade and how the expect him to be traded any day like they have an actual reliable source to the hole dealings. There sources are un reliable at best, like Tim's that told him that Soriano was going to the CHW at the trade deadline, and that was supposed to be a "sure thing." If there just gonna thorw random s*** out there for rumors there no more reliable then the people who come up with trade ideas in this forum.

 

Sorry for the rant, but you would think out of all these reporters they could eventually get something right, not just BS that fills in there blogs. But none of them don't want to admit to not having a F*#@ing clue as to whats going on and that there guess is as good as anyones.

[riverside sluggers]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6235962

 

3 1/2 hours ago, the Red Sox & Dodgers met to discuss a Manny Ramirez trade. Brad Penny could be involved in the talks, another former Marlin who John Henry oversaw. Ken Rosenthal suggests a package of Penny (signed thru 09), 3rd baseman Andy LaRoche, and 1st baseman James Loney

[BSN07]

Thats not a half bad trade. Id sub Kemp for either laroche or loney, only because we have Youk to play 3rd or 1ST. If it was my choice I suppose I'd choose, Penny,Kemp, and Loney.

[Gom]

I think the Yankees best move is if the Red Sox trade Manny.

[BSN07]

I agree with you GOM, it is hard to justify trading him but he doesn't want to be hear. He's given the fans enough, might as well get something in return for him. You as a NYY fan will be dealing with this next off season in the form of AROD. If he has another year like last year and the media continues to bash him, I think he opts out and signs elsewhere. I know what he has said but I still think after this season AROD plays elsewhere.

[jacksonianmarch]

It is hard to justify the sox making this deal. You are talking about dealing one of the best hitters in baseball history for a pitcher who didnt make their playoff rotation and two kids.

[jacksonianmarch]

I have a question for you guys. Would you be okay if the sox got minor league talent out of this deal, or does there need to be significant MLB talent included?

[TheKilo]

Broxton and Kemp really need to come back from LAD in any deal we make with them.

[jacksonianmarch]

Now those two guys I can definitely see helping the sox, somewhat. Broxton is a closer type, but will his move from the NL West cause his ERA to jump? We'll see. Kemp is a monster power bat who can play CF. He is a guy anyone should target. He will be a good player.

[TheKilo]

Now those two guys I can definitely see helping the sox' date=' somewhat. Broxton is a closer type, but will his move from the NL West cause his ERA to jump? We'll see. Kemp is a monster power bat who can play CF. He is a guy anyone should target. He will be a good player.[/quote']

 

 

At the very least Broxton would be a solid arm for their pen, and obviously would be the front runner for the closing job.

 

I think Broxton/Kemp/Loney/Billingsley for Manny + $$$ would be a solid deal.

[jacksonianmarch]

I dont see Billingsley coming back. It looks like they would love to send Penny over though. And you would likely have to pick between Loney and Kemp.

 

I could see a Penny/Broxton/Kemp deal getting done. Just remember though, teams will be a little reluctant to deal a hoarde of major league ready talent. When Soriano was available, the going rate was one MLB ready top prospect, hence they hung onto him.

[Mr Crunchy]

this front office is completely rudderless

[TheKilo]

I dont see Billingsley coming back. It looks like they would love to send Penny over though. And you would likely have to pick between Loney and Kemp.

 

I could see a Penny/Broxton/Kemp deal getting done. Just remember though, teams will be a little reluctant to deal a hoarde of major league ready talent. When Soriano was available, the going rate was one MLB ready top prospect, hence they hung onto him.

 

 

Alfonso Soriano is not Manny Ramirez.

 

Penny/Broxton/Kemp/Loney would also be adequate. The Sox need to play hardball if they're going to trade Manny and really try to get equivalent value.

[jacksonianmarch]

While you are right, you must consider that Soriano is 5 yrs younger and has speed. Manny at 35 will still be huge draw, but I would consider his worth to be in Soriano's range right now.

[BSN07]

Soriano is a .280 career hitter, averages 30-35 HRs a year and about 85 to 90 RBI, and a OBP .325 over 7 seasons,

 

Manny is a .314 career hitter, averages 30-40 HRs, 125 RBI and a .411 OBP over 12 seasons.

 

Manny is a first ballot HOF, Soriano is not. Thats why you either get 3 top prospects, or one ML and two top prospects for Manny, and only 1 for Soriano. Soriano is an All Star caliber player, but does not have the plate discipline or the overall skill Manny has at the plate. Manny is the best RH hitter maybe in BOS history and the best the game has seen in along time. Thats why you ask for alot and if you don't get it then you just keep him. The only reason I say trade him is because if he truly does want out then Id get the best deal I could for him and send him off before he becomes more of a distraction.

[ORS]

While you are right' date=' you must consider that Soriano is 5 yrs younger and has speed. Manny at 35 will still be huge draw, but I would consider his worth to be in Soriano's range right now.[/quote']

Age really doesn't matter because the situations are vastly different. Soriano was a half-year rental. The team trading for Manny has him for two years (+options).

[BSN07]

All of that being said, Manny's bat is great. But everyone who wants to keep him around on the team fails to realize or is just daft that "HE DOES NOT WANT TO BE IN BOS ". Listen I love the guy as much as the next person, but if you don't want to be here, and give 100% to the team, then I really don't want to pay you 20 million dollars to wine and be a distraction for the guys that do love BOS and want to play.

 

We got what we wanted from him, we got a WS title, he's given us great memorys and made us laugh. He's 35 supposidly is starting to have knee issues and his desire to play lets just say is not what it was. Can't blame him for that tho, he has a WS ring, millions upon millions of dollars and is a first ballot HOF. He has nothing more to prove to us or anyone.

 

So lets get the best deal we can for him, make the team a little younger( hungrier). Everyone says with Manny gone we will have no offense, yes it won't be as good but just because we don't have the big 3-4 cobo anymore won't mean we can't score runs. Believe it or not the Sox have made the playoffs with out Manny and Ortiz. Most teams aren't blessed with having that combo but they still make the playoffs and win. I would much rather have a balanced attack on offense( with Manny gone, and Drew, Lugo if signed, the line up will be much more balanced) and a dominate pitching staff( new rumor with peny coming to bos for manny) anyday rather then just a 3-4 combo with no other support in the line up.

 

For argument sake, lets say Drew, Lugo sign, and we get some combo of Penny/Kemp/Loney/Laroche/Broxton/Billingsly back for Manny this is what 07 could look like.

 

SS Lugo

1B Youk/Loney

RF Drew( he can't protect Papi, might as well have Papi protect him)

DH Papi

3B Lowell/ Youk( Lowell might be dealt for BP help if Loney or Laroche come back in LA trade)

LF WMP/Kemp

C Varitek

CF Crisp

2B Pedroia

 

Rotation

1. Schilling

2. Beckett

3. Matsuzaka

4. Penny

5. Papelbon

 

Bullpen is just to far away from being complete and too many different ways to go, so I won't bother.

 

Yes this team isn't an offensive juggernaut, but it is solid, and a pretty damn good rotation too. I for one would rather have this team then, a mediocre pitching staff, and the best 3-4 combo in the game thsat is only gonna last 2 years at the most anyway.

[riverside sluggers]

I dont see Billingsley coming back. It looks like they would love to send Penny over though. And you would likely have to pick between Loney and Kemp.

 

I could see a Penny/Broxton/Kemp deal getting done. Just remember though, teams will be a little reluctant to deal a hoarde of major league ready talent. When Soriano was available, the going rate was one MLB ready top prospect, hence they hung onto him.

 

The Nats holding onto Soriano was one of the biggest front office blunders in the 2006 season. They turned down from the Angels: Ervin Santana, Brandon Wood, another top prospect

[TheKilo]

I'd much rather have Broxton than Penny.

[BSN07]

Like I said on another thread, any combo of

 

Penny/Kemp/Loney

Penny/Kemp/Laroche

Broxton/Kemp/Loney

Broxton/Kemp/Laroche

Billingsly/Kemp/Loney

Billingsly/Kemp/Laroche

Broxton/Billingsly/Kemp

 

I would consider a nice deal. In my opinion Kemp has to come back in any circumstance, if not then either,

Penny/Loney/Broxton

Broxton/Billingsly/Loney/Laroche( we have to throw down some money or something else for this one)

[BSN07]

Just a thought, but since we need a back up catcher this year,I was thinking maybe if we dealt Manny to LA and threw in a low level prospect, we could get back the kids we want but also have LA throw in Toby Hall. He be a decent backup for a year and I doubt we would have to give up anyone that wasn't just a mid to low level prospect anyway. Just an idea.

[riverside sluggers]

Toby Hall is likely to be non-tendered by the Dodgers making him a free agent. Its better to give up just cash for his services. He'd be a serviceable 1 year backup catcher for Boston