Epstein makes his worst trade yet !!!

[RedmondWA]

:thumbdown

Theo, Were you braindead when you traded Arroyo for Pena?

 

Do I need to remind you, In baseball, the number 1 priority is pitching, number 2 is defense and number 3 is hitting.

 

A team can never have enough quality pitching!!! Arroyo was a quality pitcher as a starter or long relief.

 

Pena is garbage. Strikes out way too much! Only sometimes, he can hit a fastball, but he'll most certainly give you a worthless strikeout if the ball has movement or is offspeed.

 

Other GMs had to be laughing at this one. Try offering Pena to the Reds for Arroyo and they'll confirm that you were braindead when you made this trade!

 

Pena with his ton of strikeouts won't last more than a year with the Sox.

 

So in effect, the Sox basically just released a quality pitcher and got nothing in return.

 

Since no GM was dumb enough to take Wells, Theo decides to keep Wells over Arroyo !!!

You've got to be kidding!! Wells is a fat-over-the-hill pitcher who'll be retired next year.

 

Arroyo will be quality pitcher for years to come!

 

It would have been much wiser to have kept Arroyo and outright released Wells.

 

Thanks for hearing me out,

Disgusted with the Arroyo trade in Redmond, WA

[yeszir]

We've played 7 games. Time will tell if this was a good trade. It's not like we're short pitching. Despite Bronson's current power streak I still think this will be a good trade in the long run.

 

And by the way, welcome to the site.

[Youk Of The Nation]

You made the right move coming to this site and creating an account simply to voice your opinion. At the first available opportunity, I will go to the Cincinatti Reds and offer them Pena, Lenny DiNardo, and Ortiz for Arroyo, along with a box of "Nilla Wafers". (Do you think the Reds would call me an "Indian giver"?)

 

I am deeply sorry for the anguish I have caused you, but rest assured this mistake will be corrected in time. After all, if the General Manager of the Boston Red Sox and his associates cant trust the opinion of a random fan from the other side of the country, where does that leave the team?

 

Yours truly,

 

 

Theo Epstein

 

 

 

PS: Do you think the Nomar trade was a good idea?

[ORS]

Yes, because we need more pitchers when two OFs have gone down in the first week. Wells in RF, anyone?

 

The Pena acquisition was dealing from a postion of depth in order to cover an area of weakness. Sure, it could have been for someone else, but the FO decided for the lottery ticket instead of the sure fire mediocrity. Wily Mo still needs to develop and that development is going to involve some growing pains. Unfortunately, he was signed to a Major League deal so he can't go down without being put on waivers (which he won't clear). Hell, he may never develop. But, if he does hit his potential, he's got the tools to be a special player. They took a risk, and in the long run it cost them a league average pitcher. Hardly anything to develop a case of hives over if you ask me.

[element1151]

Hey, I'm from Redmond also. Pretty cool.

 

I'm not totally happy with the trade, I really liked Arroyo as a pitcher. He really did well in our 2004 playoff run. I don't know if I would have done the trade, but it isn't all bad. It isn't like Arroyo would hit for us anyway.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

:thumbdown

Theo, Were you braindead when you traded Arroyo for Pena?

 

Do I need to remind you, In baseball, the number 1 priority is pitching, number 2 is defense and number 3 is hitting.

 

A team can never have enough quality pitching!!! Arroyo was a quality pitcher as a starter or long relief.

 

Pena is garbage. Strikes out way too much! Only sometimes, he can hit a fastball, but he'll most certainly give you a worthless strikeout if the ball has movement or is offspeed.

 

Other GMs had to be laughing at this one. Try offering Pena to the Reds for Arroyo and they'll confirm that you were braindead when you made this trade!

 

Pena with his ton of strikeouts won't last more than a year with the Sox.

 

So in effect, the Sox basically just released a quality pitcher and got nothing in return.

 

Since no GM was dumb enough to take Wells, Theo decides to keep Wells over Arroyo !!!

You've got to be kidding!! Wells is a fat-over-the-hill pitcher who'll be retired next year.

 

Arroyo will be quality pitcher for years to come!

 

It would have been much wiser to have kept Arroyo and outright released Wells.

 

Thanks for hearing me out,

Disgusted with the Arroyo trade in Redmond, WA

 

 

Welcome to the site! Unfortunatley, I can't welcome you to the world of baseball knowledge just yet...

 

Pena has ridiculous upsides, and the potential to be an absolute STAR in the future. Arroyo has peaked and is a slightly above average pitcher at BEST. You have to make this trade, especially with the holes in the OF that are going to come in the next few years. Getting a young guy that can hit like Pena just makes sense. Ortiz struck out a lot before he matured as a hitter, and I'd go so far as to say Pena is much further along and refined the Ortiz was at his age...do you think it was stupid for the Sox to pick him up when they did? I didn't think so.

 

Release Wells...good idea...why would we want a guy who won 15 games last year, has been a 20 game winner in the past, has the experience neccessary to mentor our young arms, and is argueably the most dominant big game pitcher in the recent past on the Sox anymore. I'd give him the boot too.

[Sox fan in Tex]

So let me ask you this, then Redmond: On a scale of 1-10 with 1 being a horrible job and 10 being a absolutely brilliant job, how would you rate Theo Epstein's overall running of the team since he has been here?

 

You see, yeszir is right. Yeah, everytime I see Willy Mo walk up to the plate and strike out on three pitches it makes me want to throw up, but let's give it a more time. Two years ago, this guy hit 26 homeruns in Cincinnati! The guy is what, something like 24 years old? This is only really his fourth year in the majors ('02, he only had 18 ABs). Plus, as bad as it seems, he is 1-for-5 at the plate (an RBI double). Who says this guy won't be really great down the road? We had a loaded pitching staff, so we traded away a 4th or 5th starter in exchange for a potentially really great outfielder. I see no problem.

[Whos Your Papi]

I can't believe people are already judging this trade. WMP has 5 at bats and everyone is giving up on him....jeez people look at David Ortiz. Minnesota did the same thing to him alot of people are doing to WMP and look Ortiz now. WMP is a kid, he needs time. But the fact is Arroyo is a #3 starter at best, WMP is potentially a All-Star cleanup hitter.

 

This trade may seem bad this year, next year, maybe even the year after that. But in 2,3,4 years when WMP is a All-Star outfielder nobody will be talking about this being a bad trade.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

I think in 155 games, Pena will out-homer Arroyo.

[The Monster is my Mom]

Yes, because we need more pitchers when two OFs have gone down in the first week. Wells in RF, anyone?

 

 

Come on Red, we could have put Arroyo in RF!

 

The trade looks bad right now because Arroyo is doing so well, and Pena is not. I think in the long run (a few years down the road), this trade will end up favoring us though.

[MC Hammer]

Yeah what a stupid trade. What GM in his right mind would trade a mediocre(at best) pitcher ... for one of the next great power hitters ... FIRE THEO!!!!!!!11111111

 

You are not welcome.

[ORS]

I can't believe people are already judging this trade. WMP has 5 at bats and everyone is giving up on him....jeez people look at David Ortiz. Minnesota did the same thing to him alot of people are doing to WMP and look Ortiz now. WMP is a kid, he needs time. But the fact is Arroyo is a #3 starter at best, WMP is potentially a All-Star cleanup hitter.

 

This trade may seem bad this year, next year, maybe even the year after that. But in 2,3,4 years when WMP is a All-Star outfielder nobody will be talking about this being a bad trade.

And a lot of the same was being said after Ortiz' first month with the Sox, where he went .212/.311/.346 with 1 HR and 11 Ks in 52 AB. I'm not saying WMP is the next David Ortiz, but he does deserve a chance.

[sarasoxfan]

man, its way to early for a thread like this. One Red seat brings up a great analogy with Ortiz.

Sheesh boston is a tough town, anyway with nixon on the shelf for a few games and same with crisp we;ll see quite a bit of pena. I hope he does well just to shut up the impatient.

[Whos Your Papi]

And a lot of the same was being said after Ortiz' first month with the Sox, where he went .212/.311/.346 with 1 HR and 11 Ks in 52 AB. I'm not saying WMP is the next David Ortiz, but he does deserve a chance.

I had forgot about how bad Ortiz was hitting when he first came to Boston (easy to forget that bad with all the good he has produced), that is a great point. It's not easy playing in beantown, just look at Renteria that guy had a hell of a time playing in Boston and he is blowing up now that he is in ATL. Some people can adjust, some can't only time will tell on Willy Mo. But damn, atleast give the guy a chance. 5 AB's and he is Theo's worst trade? That is just crazy talk.

[26 to 6]

I understand the frustration coming from some of the Sox fans with this deal. However, there is no way you dont pull the trigger on it given the circumstances. The Red Sox needed to part ways with a pitcher or two, just for roster purposes. In return for a number 4 starter they received a flawed outfielder with ALL the potential in the world. If/When Pena turns it up and fashions himself into the ballplayer he is expected to be, everyone doubting this trade will be singing a different song. There is no way this trade cant be made. And also, not that it was a factor when the trade was made, but ORS brought up a good point. Two outfielders are down already ( and dont think I dont have a huge grin on my face, ear to ear). Without Pena who plays Right Field with Stern in Center? Who can you call up? Brandon Moss?

 

With his age and potential, this is a no brainer for the Sox. If everything goes as expected you hve the Right Fielder for possibly the next 8 years.

[The Monster is my Mom]

Dustin Mohr would play right field, not Moss.

[a700hitter]

Home Run Count:

Arroyo 2

Pena 0

This is not quite fair, because Arroyo has more AB's than Wily Mo since the trade.

[The Monster is my Mom]

This is not quite fair, because Arroyo has more AB's than Wily Mo since the trade.

 

 

Actually Bronson only has 4 AB's and Pena has 5.

[TheRivernator]

We've played 7 games. Time will tell if this was a good trade. It's not like we're short pitching. Despite Bronson's current power streak I still think this will be a good trade in the long run.

 

And by the way, welcome to the site.

 

Exactly, wow, I am a yankee fan and take every opp. to jump on the sox, but this guy has lost it. I jumped on the sox fans for stabbing arroyo in the back on the way out, but this trade was a good one for the sox. Pena is not a this yr playerand you knew what you were getting for the most part. The guy is capable of 50HRs in a season but to go along with 200K. 7 games is not the best way to determine if a trade was good or not, especially when you receive a prospect in return...

[bagwell368]

If Epstein knew he had 2 OF in the system that could likely do the job, and that he would get Choi so cheap, he probably would not do the deal. But he didn't know, so we'll see.

 

W

[mtbykr]

I wish we had some more options on Pena so we could get him constant ab's in pawtuckett. Mohr and stern have been playing well and could platoon with trot. Hopefully the time with papajack, will do pena some good!

[hoefdj18]

I think the trade eventually will pan out in favor of the Sox. You can't judge a trade only this far into the season, at the end of the season we can look back and see if we shot ourselves in the foot or not. But even at that, it has to be at least a season or two before I begin to say this trade was a steal for the reds. Sure Willy Mo has a tendency to chase bad pitches and isn't the most consistant hitter, but now with hitters such as Manny and Ortiz arround giving him advice, the sky is the limit (hopefully).

[Mr Crunchy]

arroyo was our most consistant pitcher last year

his #s were better than mussina's in every category except maybe Ks

he took the home town discount to stay here

 

they shanked him for it and now what??

 

i agree outfield depth is an issue

perhaps they shouldve kept jay payton instead of getting bradford

stern and mohr had outstanding springs as well

 

david wells is 42+ and doesnt want to be here

wakefield is 40 and is using a new catcher who did well in his last start but God only knows if bard can handle him for 35 starts,the 1st one was ugly,the 2nd ok

 

we expect more

 

schill and beckett have been outstanding,simply outstanding and that alone gives me all kinds of reasons to be optimistic about going deep into october

 

clement returned to the land of oz last nite

the boy is down right maddening hes so inconsistant

 

bottom line

you dont trade last years best pitcher who we have very very cheap for a project when you intend to compete for the whole thing..

 

arroyo's 200 innings will be missed

how badly has yet to be determined

[DUSTINMOHR4LIFE]

whats with you and exclamation points

[Soxfan1]

Whats with you and bumping these old topics?

[ahhchon]

idiots, how many times do i have to correct people on this board?

 

Pre All Star .321 .370 .482 .852

Post All-Star .273 .351 .576 .927

 

Pre All Star 3.12 1.18 .247

Post All-Star 4.86 1.35 .290

 

uh ohhh.. arroyo isn't as scary the 2nd time around is he? don't get me wrong, arroyo is a solid pitcher and should be a 2nd or 3rd on some NL staff at this point of his career, but his future as a sub 3 pitcher is over. willy mo on the other hand is young and will get better (to an extend).

 

use stats to backup what you have to say. don't just say jibber jabber and expect people to listen.

 

i could easily play devils advocate and convince people that arroyo MIGHT be a better player for the next year or two than willy mo. use and manipulate stats to get what you want. at least you don't sound like a moron that way.

 

john

[jacksonianmarch]

idiots, how many times do i have to correct people on this board?

 

Pre All Star .321 .370 .482 .852

Post All-Star .273 .351 .576 .927

 

Pre All Star 3.12 1.18 .247

Post All-Star 4.86 1.35 .290

 

uh ohhh.. arroyo isn't as scary the 2nd time around is he? don't get me wrong, arroyo is a solid pitcher and should be a 2nd or 3rd on some NL staff at this point of his career, but his future as a sub 3 pitcher is over. willy mo on the other hand is young and will get better (to an extend).

 

use stats to backup what you have to say. don't just say jibber jabber and expect people to listen.

 

i could easily play devils advocate and convince people that arroyo MIGHT be a better player for the next year or two than willy mo. use and manipulate stats to get what you want. at least you don't sound like a moron that way.

 

john

 

arroyo could have helped this yr. Wily Mo is an investment in the future.

[ahhchon]

http://stevescars.digitaloutsider.org/captain_obvious.jpg

 

john

[SCM33]

I am tired of people blaming the season on the trade of a frigin #5 guy in our rotation. I said it in another thread, if you feel your season was lost because you were banking on a #4 or #5 pitcher, you were destined to fail anyway.

 

Bronson Arroyo is not f***in god, hes not an ace, hes not a 2 or a 3. He was actually going to be starting the season in the BP because the FO valued him SOOOOOOOOOO much as a SP. He was an average pitcher.....at best.

 

Again....to say that Bronson Arroyo would put us over the top is just foolish. The RedSox are stuggling because Matt Clement blows and is a head case, David Wells was hurt all year, Tim Wakefield is hurt, Keith Foulke sucked again, Mike Timlin was hurt and is now showing signs of age, Seanez and Tavarez pitching awful.

 

How does Bronson Arroyo fix all those problems with the pitching staff?

 

Like I said before, what if we did have Arroyo and Nixon gets hurt Who plays RF everyday? Gabe Kapler? Who plays RF next year? If Nixon got hurt and Kapler played everyday everyone would be btiching and moaning about how much Kapler sucks and everyone would STILL be trashing Theo. The guy can't win. Its not Theos fault that half the f***in roster comes to Boston and gets hurt, becomes a headcase, or simply sucks ass after years of success. You cant blame Theo for signing people who are consistently successful, then come to Boston and blow ass.

 

Bronson Arroyo is not our savior, and if you want to point a finger....point it at Matt Clement, David Wells, Tim Wakefield (even though thats very very hard to do), Rudy Seanez, Julian Tavarez, or Keith Foulke....all players who are paid to succeed, and have track records.

[a700hitter]

I am tired of people blaming the season on the trade of a frigin #5 guy in our rotation. I said it in another thread, if you feel your season was lost because you were banking on a #4 or #5 pitcher, you were destined to fail anyway.

You are right. It was not this one move that ruined the season. It was a series of poor decisions for the past 2 years. This team was poorly constructed from the beginning, and the FO has sat with a pat hand even after that became obvious.