The lineup I'd like to see

[stocker323]

I suspect he is fast. wonder who will manning the windmill at 3rd base this year....

 

DeMarco Hale (former Rangers coach) has already been named the 3rd Base coach.

[yeszir]

DeMarco Hale (former Rangers coach) has already been named the 3rd Base coach.

He has about 2 months of happiness left before his life becomes a living hell.

[stocker323]

He has about 2 months of happiness left before his life becomes a living hell.

 

Unless he (gasps) holds David Ortiz on a bloop single to center. But what Red Sox 3rd Base coach would ever do that.

[riverside sluggers]

Or how about 5 or 6 hits in 1 inning against the Yankees = end result being 2 men easily thrown out and just 1 frigging run scored <_>

[TheRivernator]

Now that we have all 9 positions filled and assuming Youk starts at 1B, here is the lineup I'd like to see on opening day:

 

Crisp

Youk

Ortiz

Manny

Nixon

Varitek

Lowell

Loretta

Gonzalez

 

anyone else have ideas on how they think the 2006 lineup is gonna shape up?

 

 

hey there wells how u been buddy. Here is how it should work out...

 

1. Crisp CF

2. Loretta 2B

3. Ortiz DH

4. Ramirez LF

5. Varitek C

6. Lowell 3B

7. Nixon RF

8. Youkilis 1B

9. Gonzalez SS

[MC Hammer]

You guys really need to let the Dale s*** go. Every 3rd base coach makes mistakes. The new coach will make mistakes too and you'll all jump on him just like with Dale. We should be worried about more important things like if Schilling and Foulke are going to be 100% this year.

[YAZMAN]

I suspect he is fast. wonder who will manning the windmill at 3rd base this year....

 

Not sure, Col. But I did hear that Dale Phlegm got a job on the 16th hole at the Falmouth mini-golf course.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Everyone has close to the same lineup so I'll throw a curveball just to make it interesting:

 

1. Kevin Youkilis ® - Greek God of Walks

2. Coco Crisp (S) - I like having a switch hitter in the #2 spot, plus a guy with speed to stay out of double plays.

3. David Ortiz (L) - umm yeah

4. Manny Ramirez ® - ya know

5. Mike Lowell ® - my prediction - 3rd best hitter on the Red Sox this year

6. Trot Nixon (L) - my favorite red sox player

7. Mark Loretta ® - approach to the plate reminds me of Lowell, Nixon, and Varitek

8. Jason Varitek (S) - the Captain batting #8....best #8 hitter in the game

9. Alex Gonzalez ® - just when you think the lineup is over...A-Gonzo blasts one while going 1-5 in the game.

[TheMeanWalrus]

Now that we have all 9 positions filled and assuming Youk starts at 1B, here is the lineup I'd like to see on opening day:

 

Crisp

Youk

Ortiz

Manny

Nixon

Varitek

Lowell

Loretta

Gonzalez

 

anyone else have ideas on how they think the 2006 lineup is gonna shape up?

 

 

 

 

Sweet mother of God Wells, seeing it on paper is even worse than I imagined.

Manny and Ortiz are gonna have to go .330 50 & 165 each to carry the offense.

 

Trot Nixon. . .Still waiting for that "break out" year. Can't stay off the DL. He blows.

Mike Lowell?

Mark Loretta?

Alex Gonzalez?

Coco B Ware?

Kevin f***ing Youkilis?

All question marks for one reason or another. Coco hasn;t had thin much pressure on him since facing Rick Martel at Wrestlemania 3. How he responds under the pressure of the Boston lights is anyones guess. This ain't Cleveland anymore where the publics only concern is whether or not the Cuyahoga River is on fire. How do you think Mike Lowell is gonna react to the change of scenery from South Beach where no one gives a flying f*** about baseball to scrutiny of hitting .185 in April in Boston? Mark Loretta I don;t know too much about but he's been around and not much is excpected from him so in terms of living up to your hype he has the least to lose and the best shot at reaching expectations.

Alex Gonzalez?

And then we have Kevin Youkilis. . .the answer. . . the savior. . .he of 250 MLB AB's

 

Mark my words right now (and I pray to God I am wrong) but this is going to go down in history as the single worst infield in Red Sox (possibly MLB?) history.

 

TMW

Who will be outside for the rest of the day doing an Ancient Aztec Ptiching Dance because we're gonna need a LOT of it to even get a whiff of the playoffs.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Sweet mother of God Wells, seeing it on paper is even worse than I imagined.

Manny and Ortiz are gonna have to go .330 50 & 165 each to carry the offense.

 

Trot Nixon. . .Still waiting for that "break out" year. Can't stay off the DL. He blows.

Mike Lowell?

Mark Loretta?

Alex Gonzalez?

Coco B Ware?

Kevin f***ing Youkilis?

All question marks for one reason or another. Coco hasn;t had thin much pressure on him since facing Rick Martel at Wrestlemania 3. How he responds under the pressure of the Boston lights is anyones guess. This ain't Cleveland anymore where the publics only concern is whether or not the Cuyahoga River is on fire. How do you think Mike Lowell is gonna react to the change of scenery from South Beach where no one gives a flying f*** about baseball to scrutiny of hitting .185 in April in Boston? Mark Loretta I don;t know too much about but he's been around and not much is excpected from him so in terms of living up to your hype he has the least to lose and the best shot at reaching expectations.

Alex Gonzalez?

And then we have Kevin Youkilis. . .the answer. . . the savior. . .he of 250 MLB AB's

 

Mark my words right now (and I pray to God I am wrong) but this is going to go down in history as the single worst infield in Red Sox (possibly MLB?) history.

 

TMW

Who will be outside for the rest of the day doing an Ancient Aztec Ptiching Dance because we're gonna need a LOT of it to even get a whiff of the playoffs.

 

It could be worse...we could have Mark Bellhorn, Nomar Garciappara, and Kevin Millar

[riverside sluggers]

The infield, on paper, is a big step up from the opening day infield of last season. Heavily on the defense, and the offense as well

[YAZMAN]

It could be worse...we could have Mark Bellhorn, Nomar Garciappara, and Kevin Millar

 

Perspective is everything, isn't it?

[TheMeanWalrus]

The infield, on paper, is a big step up from the opening day infield of last season. Heavily on the defense, and the offense as well

 

 

 

RS,

You're putting an awful lot of blind faith into Mike Lowell rebounding and Kevin Youkilis being anything more than an also ran. I hope you're right, dude, but this infield has a lot to prove at best, downright blows at worst.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

RS,

You're putting an awful lot of blind faith into Mike Lowell rebounding and Kevin Youkilis being anything more than an also ran. I hope you're right, dude, but this infield has a lot to prove at best, downright blows at worst.

 

I'm not sure I understand where you are coming from. Alex Gonzalez and Mike Lowell were on the most recent Florida Marlins team that won the World Series. Jack McKeon said great things about Alex Gonzalez and Mike Lowell is a proven team leader. I also don't know how you can be so hard to Kevin Youkilis who always plays well when given the opportunity. He is very patient at the plate and has a tremendous eye. His batting stats between the MLB and AAA last season were excellent. At 26 years old he is at his best right now walking into his prime. Whenever Youkilis took over for Bill Mueller at third the offense never stopped...that means something cause Bill Mueller is an excellent player. To top it off you can't compare the talents of Kevin Millar vs. Kevin Youkilis...thats a laugh.

 

I could get into a discussion of why Mark Loretta is a better player than Tony Graffanino, Alex Cora, and Mark Bellhorn but I don't want to write a book.

 

This team will not struggle because of the offense or defense....our fate will be determined in our pitching. If Curt Schilling, Josh Beckett, and Keith Foulke can stay healthy and produce as they should.....we will be awesome.

[riverside sluggers]

My key concern right now is Keith Foulke. Anything close to 2004 level, it will be cruise control for the bullpen

[YAZMAN]

My key concern right now is Keith Foulke. Anything close to 2004 level, it will be cruise control for the bullpen

 

Yeah, but anything close to last year with him and the bullpen will look like a gas station.

[riverside sluggers]

True as that might be, Foulke is the only, but big, concern the Sox have. The 4 setup men of the pen all had ERAs of under 4. At plan B, the Sox will also have promising young guns to call-up in Craig Hansen, Manny DelCarmen and Jermaine Van Buren.

 

Long Innings- Bronson Arroyo or Jonathan Papelbon

Lenny DiNardo

Set Up- Rudy Seanez

David Riske

Julian Tavarez

Mike Timlin

Closer- Keith Foulke

 

Thats a far cry from the opening day 05 pen

[TheMeanWalrus]

Ahhhh some baseball talk, let's break this down. . .

 

 

I'm not sure I understand where you are coming from. Alex Gonzalez and Mike Lowell were on the most recent Florida Marlins team that won the World Series. Jack McKeon said great things about Alex Gonzalez and Mike Lowell is a proven team leader.

 

 

Schill, lets get one thing established right up front, you're not comparing playing baseball in South Florida with playing in Boston are you?

 

That clarification aside, its all well and good what Jack McKeon said about them but Jack McKeon ain't playing third or short for us and Kevin Millar was a "proven leader" as well.

 

The fact of the matter is this re: Lowell and Gonzalez

 

1. Alex Gonzalez has never hit over .265 in any of his 8 Major League seasons.

2. Alex Gonzalez is a career .240 hitter

3. His OBP is dreadful (.291)

4. His SP is dreadful (.391)

5. By default, I guess that makes his OPS dreadful as well.

 

What reason, outside of blind faith, makes you think he'll turn that around this year?

More on Alex. . .

He has no speed (23 SB's in 8 years) and he's been caught 17 times for a % of 58%

 

This guy is Pokey Reese with less defensive ability.

 

Mike Lowell:

Hit 27 HR's in 500 AB's in 2004

Hit 8 HR's in 500 AB's in 2005

Why the drop off?

One thing to consider here is what changed in the landscape of MLB between the two years?

Anyone?

Anyone?

The answer is the steroid thing broke.

I'm not saying Lowell was on the juice, but the dramatic drop off in:

a. average

b. homers

c. slugging

has to be explained somehow, no?

He only missed 12 games so something is going on.

Same question about Lowell that I had about Gonzalez:

What reason, outside of blind faith, makes you think he'll turn that around this year?

 

Note also that both these guys have played their entire careers in South Florida (except Lowell, I think, came up w/ the Yanks) And South Florida is not Boston.

 

 

To top it off you can't compare the talents of Kevin Millar vs. Kevin Youkilis...thats a laugh.

 

 

I'm sorry where did I do that?

 

 

 

 

I also don't know how you can be so hard to Kevin Youkilis who always plays well when given the opportunity. He is very patient at the plate and has a tremendous eye. His batting stats between the MLB and AAA last season were excellent. At 26 years old he is at his best right now walking into his prime. Whenever Youkilis took over for Bill Mueller at third the offense never stopped...that means something cause Bill Mueller is an excellent player.

 

 

I'm not being hard on Youkilis

He is what he is

And what he is, is a guy with 250 ML AB's, who's never gone thru the rigors of a ML season before and with the exception of a run of games in 2004 has never shown the ability to hit for power which is something "most teams" look for from their starting first basemen. I don't hate Kevin Youkilis. No one wants the kid to thrive more than I do but the fact of the matter is he has done nothing to this point in his career to prove to me he's a servicable everyday first basemen and the consensus that this kid is gonna ride into town like The Man With No Name in High Plains Drifter and save the day is nothing more than wishful thinking.

 

I'll defer to your expertise on Mark Loretta

[ORS]

There was a report (sorry, no link) about Lowell having a contact lens problem last season. It's kind of tough to hit the ball when you can't see it too well. A quarter of an inch here or a quarter of an inch there and the ball is a weak grounder or a pop-up instead of a stung line drive.

 

Regarding the steroid speculation, since you are new I'll put in my $.02 (most of the regs know my stance). Steroids don't turn a power switch on/off. Suppose Lowell did use them pre-2005, but stopped when the testing was about to begin. Do you honestly think that would weaken him to the point of not being able to hit the ball out of the park? I spent a considerable amount of time in the gym when I was in the Marines, and I even used androstenedione when it was still legal. I also had a couple of friends that used illegal steroids. Let me tell you, from my experience, the only time anyone suffered from significant drops in strength was when they completely stopped working out. Stopping the "juice" just slowed the rapid growth.

 

Lowell's statistical dropoff agrees with his claim that he struggled seeing the ball last year. He's said that he has resolved the problem and started working with his old hitting coach 3 days after the season ended. Yeah, I know Pedro's most frequent offseason claim was that his arm "felt like it did in 2000", so I'll reserve judgement until I see him play. That said, I think it's a bit pessimistic to call him cooked at this point.

[elsrbueno]

Ahhhh some baseball talk, let's break this down. . .

 

 

 

 

 

Schill, lets get one thing established right up front, you're not comparing playing baseball in South Florida with playing in Boston are you?

 

That clarification aside, its all well and good what Jack McKeon said about them but Jack McKeon ain't playing third or short for us and Kevin Millar was a "proven leader" as well.

 

The fact of the matter is this re: Lowell and Gonzalez

 

1. Alex Gonzalez has never hit over .265 in any of his 8 Major League seasons.

2. Alex Gonzalez is a career .240 hitter

3. His OBP is dreadful (.291)

4. His SP is dreadful (.391)

5. By default, I guess that makes his OPS dreadful as well.

 

What reason, outside of blind faith, makes you think he'll turn that around this year?

More on Alex. . .

He has no speed (23 SB's in 8 years) and he's been caught 17 times for a % of 58%

 

This guy is Pokey Reese with less defensive ability.

 

Mike Lowell:

Hit 27 HR's in 500 AB's in 2004

Hit 8 HR's in 500 AB's in 2005

Why the drop off?

One thing to consider here is what changed in the landscape of MLB between the two years?

Anyone?

Anyone?

The answer is the steroid thing broke.

I'm not saying Lowell was on the juice, but the dramatic drop off in:

a. average

b. homers

c. slugging

has to be explained somehow, no?

He only missed 12 games so something is going on.

Same question about Lowell that I had about Gonzalez:

What reason, outside of blind faith, makes you think he'll turn that around this year?

 

Note also that both these guys have played their entire careers in South Florida (except Lowell, I think, came up w/ the Yanks) And South Florida is not Boston.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry where did I do that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not being hard on Youkilis

He is what he is

And what he is, is a guy with 250 ML AB's, who's never gone thru the rigors of a ML season before and with the exception of a run of games in 2004 has never shown the ability to hit for power which is something "most teams" look for from their starting first basemen. I don't hate Kevin Youkilis. No one wants the kid to thrive more than I do but the fact of the matter is he has done nothing to this point in his career to prove to me he's a servicable everyday first basemen and the consensus that this kid is gonna ride into town like The Man With No Name in High Plains Drifter and save the day is nothing more than wishful thinking.

 

I'll defer to your expertise on Mark Loretta

 

You're right about at least one thing. Boston is not south Florida. However, you're focusing on the negatives. The best thing to do (IMO) is to compare last year's regulars to this year's. Keep in mind, we won 95 games last year.

 

Third Base: Bill Mueller vs Mike Lowell. Bill Mueller was a fantastic baseball player, but a few things need to be stated about him: #1. He's got bad knees. #2, he hit .283 away from Fenway Park last year, and over the past 3 years he's been a .321 hitter at Fenway vs .284 on the road. He's a solid hitter and a good defender, but his numbers are INFLATED by playing half his games in one of the best hitters' parks in baseball.

 

Mike Lowell is a GOLD GLOVE caliber third baseman. His defense will be as good if not better than Mueller's. He's averaged .280/25 homers/80 RBIs over the past 3 years despite playing in Florida, one of the BEST pitchers' parks in all of baseball. He's a right handed pull hitter, and will be playing half his games in a right handed pull hitter's dream park. He'll be surrounded by better hitters in Boston, and he came here under the premise that he was the player the Red Sox were FORCED to take to get another guy they wanted. You don't think that's serious motivation?

 

Even in his down year he hit 36 doubles and 8 homers in that pitchers' park. Translate that to Fenway and I'd say that's 40+ doubles and 10+ homers (probably less doubles and more homers), and you've basically got similar production to Mueller and gold glove defense. If he returns to 2003-2004 form, he's a 35-40 HR hitter in Boston. (I'll admit that's a big IF at this point).

 

Shortstop: Edgar Renteria last year hit .280 with 8 homers and 70 RBI out of the #2 spot. He also committed 30 errors (most in baseball) and had limited range. The new guy (assuming he signs), Alex Gonzalez, had half as many errors and has more range, so he's an instant defensive upgrade. Offensively, he struggles with his command of the strike zone I'll admit, but he's capable of hitting for power (20 HR 2 years ago) and also will be moving from Pro Player to Fenway (huge hitters' advantage there). It's a completely reasonable assumption given his history, the fact that he too will be surrounded by better hitters with a better hitting coach and in a better hitters' park, that he'll hit .270 with 10ish homers. He probably won't get 70 RBI, but he's hitting out of the 8 spot not the #2 spot. Even still, he should at least match Edgar's offensive production with better defense.

 

Second Base: As already agreed upon, Mark Loretta is better than Graff/Bellhorn/Cora on both sides of the baseball.

 

First Base: As I've said before, it would be impossible to downgrade from our first base situation last season. We had Kevin Millar, who despite his chronicled clubhouse presense, was probably the worst everyday first baseman in baseball last year. He was bottom 5 defensively, and bottom 5 offensively. He didn't hit lefthanders, he didn't hit in the clutch, and he didn't hit away from Fenway Park. Even if JT Snow was forced to play everyday, he'd be better than Kevin Millar was last year. Now Youkilis is an unproven commodity, but in his limited Major League Experience, he's hit .265 with a .376 on base percentage in 287 at bats. Aggregate that over a full season (500+ ABs), and he's got 40 doubles and 16 homers over a full season as a full time player, and at 26 he's only going to get BETTER.

 

First base is a huge upgrade.

 

This team is as good or better at every infield position than the team that tied for the AL East division last year-- and also got stronger and deeper on the pitching staff and replaced Damon with a comprable player in Coco Crisp.

 

For what it's worth, Coco hit .345 with 6 homers and 16 RBI in September last year when the Guardians were fighting for a playoff spot.

 

While the Red Sox were fighting the Yankees last season for a playoff spot in September? Johnny Damon hit .290 with 1 homer and 9 RBI.

[TheMeanWalrus]

There was a report (sorry, no link) about Lowell having a contact lens problem last season. It's kind of tough to hit the ball when you can't see it too well. A quarter of an inch here or a quarter of an inch there and the ball is a weak grounder or a pop-up instead of a stung line drive.

 

Regarding the steroid speculation, since you are new I'll put in my $.02 (most of the regs know my stance). Steroids don't turn a power switch on/off. Suppose Lowell did use them pre-2005, but stopped when the testing was about to begin. Do you honestly think that would weaken him to the point of not being able to hit the ball out of the park? I spent a considerable amount of time in the gym when I was in the Marines, and I even used androstenedione when it was still legal. I also had a couple of friends that used illegal steroids. Let me tell you, from my experience, the only time anyone suffered from significant drops in strength was when they completely stopped working out. Stopping the "juice" just slowed the rapid growth.

 

Lowell's statistical dropoff agrees with his claim that he struggled seeing the ball last year. He's said that he has resolved the problem and started working with his old hitting coach 3 days after the season ended. Yeah, I know Pedro's most frequent offseason claim was that his arm "felt like it did in 2000", so I'll reserve judgement until I see him play. That said, I think it's a bit pessimistic to call him cooked at this point.

 

 

 

I'm not calling him cooked by any stretch, I just don't see what evidence there is to expect a .300 30 100 year out of him. Or even a .275 20 90, which I for one would consider a huge accomplishment in terms of expectations.

 

I can't comment on how steroids affect the ability to hit because my bulk and muscle mass is all natural, as is my accomplished swing and power to all fields. But there has been a noticeable drop off around MLB in terms of power numbers since the spotlight really started shining on baseball and its steroid problem.

[Hammer]

He has about 2 months of happiness left before his life becomes a living hell.

 

yeah, I hear ya! god help him....down to fort meyers....suit up, out to the fields,,,hitting fungos to the kids...bright sunshine, palm trees,,,,,he can be blind in one eye and deaf in the other and still do a better job than dale phlem....I will never forget how many times he took us totally out of a rally...

[riverside sluggers]

Shortstop: Edgar Renteria last year hit .280 with 8 homers and 70 RBI out of the #2 spot. He also committed 30 errors (most in baseball) and had limited range. The new guy (assuming he signs), Alex Gonzalez, had half as many errors and has more range, so he's an instant defensive upgrade. Offensively, he struggles with his command of the strike zone I'll admit, but he's capable of hitting for power (20 HR 2 years ago) and also will be moving from Pro Player to Fenway (huge hitters' advantage there). It's a completely reasonable assumption given his history, the fact that he too will be surrounded by better hitters with a better hitting coach and in a better hitters' park, that he'll hit .270 with 10ish homers. He probably won't get 70 RBI, but he's hitting out of the 8 spot not the #2 spot. Even still, he should at least match Edgar's offensive production with better defense.

 

Well thought out post as always. I thought Id pick up another point about Gonzo is that even during seasons of hitting .260 or less he has proven to have 30 or more doubles. Like newcomers Lowell and Crisp, he has a good shot of exceeding 40.

[ORS]

I'm not calling him cooked by any stretch, I just don't see what evidence there is to expect a .300 30 100 year out of him. Or even a .275 20 90, which I for one would consider a huge accomplishment in terms of expectations.

 

I can't comment on how steroids affect the ability to hit because my bulk and muscle mass is all natural, as is my accomplished swing and power to all fields. But there has been a noticeable drop off around MLB in terms of power numbers since the spotlight really started shining on baseball and its steroid problem.

I wouldn't say that last year's HR total was out of line with normal fluctuation. The AL & NL saw a .08 and .09 less HR/G repsectively. Go to baseball-reference and you'll see this isn't a significant difference compared to changes from other years.

[ManyOrtiz]

I think that simply moving to Fenway will help both of them, but honestly I'm not expecting anything amazing from them. Still looking for Manny and Ortiz to carry the offense. Vtek and Nixon should be solid and my hope is that Crisp produces well. Anything we get from the other guys is a bonus.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

This guy is Pokey Reese with less defensive ability.

 

Yeah, except Pokey Reese kinda, sorta, never hit 23 homers in a pitcher's park.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

There was a report (sorry, no link) about Lowell having a contact lens problem last season. It's kind of tough to hit the ball when you can't see it too well. A quarter of an inch here or a quarter of an inch there and the ball is a weak grounder or a pop-up instead of a stung line drive.

I dont use contact lens but isnt that something that should have been taken care of in a day and not last the entire year? I know you dont have a link but I dont know how just a contact lens problem had an effect on him for the entire year.

[RedSoxRooter]

And Pokey gets hurt at least once a year.

 

I actually feel pretty good about this team. Of course, I agree that the two biggest concerns are Foulke and Schilling.

 

If they are healthy, with the new defense in the infield, it will be pretty interesting to see just how good this pitching staff gets.

[MC Hammer]

I dont use contact lens but isnt that something that should have been taken care of in a day and not last the entire year? I know you dont have a link but I dont know how just a contact lens problem had an effect on him for the entire year.

Yeah I agree. I know plenty of people who have problems with their contacts and get the problem corrected in days. Don't tell me a millionare baseball player wasnt able to get new contacts.

[RedSoxRooter]

I dont use contact lens but isnt that something that should have been taken care of in a day and not last the entire year? I know you dont have a link but I dont know how just a contact lens problem had an effect on him for the entire year.

 

If my career was turning to crap because I was having problems with my contacts, I think I'd spend a few hundred dollars to get that laser eye surgery.

 

BTW- I had the surgery about 5 years ago. If I can afford it, a millionaire can too.

 

BTW2- If any of you are considering having the surgery in the future, you should do it. It's been great! The only downside is that my left (bad) eye is starting to get worse. But it's still a ways to go before it gets as bad as it was. One day, though, I will look like this .