mota fails physical, crisp deal off

[jsinger121]

the newspapers would have told us if these players ever were coming to boston for a physical. they never did. none of them even came to boston until beckett did recently for the boston baseball writers dinner.

[a700hitter]

I know that you are right about Beckett, and I suspect that you are right about the others. It seems that it is standard practice to complete trades without physicals, unless a team requests a physical. It is shocking with the amount invested in these players that pre-trade physicals are not standard.

[a700hitter]

Mota's agent says that he did not flunk his physical.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/bas...k_at_mota/

 

This link says that the Sox could have had Crip, Risk and Bard a while back for Clement.

 

http://www.journal-news.com/spor...dsweb.html

[jsinger121]

Guardians are trying to get more out of the red sox i bet....i would call this whole thing now because of the Guardians.

[Ray10]

Honestly don't read too much into it. This could all be rumours and Mota could have passed his physical and a deal is going down still. Either way this will happen even if Mota did fail the Sox are just going to have to throw more into the package.

[jsinger121]

the sox should not throw more into the deal unless they are getting some of the Guardians good prospects in return.

[a700hitter]

They should pull the trigger on the Matos deal, so the Guardians will know the Sox are not desperate for the deal.

[guapo34]

I'd be shocked if this deal doesn't happen. The Guardians couldn't have thought Mota was a huge upgrade of Riske. Did they think they'd be getting the old version 100% if his physical was spotless? Why would they even expect his physical to be great when he was injured fairly recently? The key pieces to the trade, Crisp and Marte, have nothing wrong with them.

[jsinger121]

They should pull the trigger on the Matos deal, so the Guardians will know the Sox are not desperate for the deal.

 

couldn't agree with you more. worse case is that matos is our centerfielder in 2006.

[kreinbihl34]

The one thing I would like to know is why did we even put ourselfs in this spot. When we found out Jonny was packing it up for the extra dollars then we should have done two things. One pick up the best CF free agent left and then talked to other teams asking for a back-up. Not holding out waiting for Theo to come back and too scared to pull a deal except for the easy ones. Pulling deals that takes guts can pay out heavily for a team like trading for Damon or Ortiz. These deals were done without hesitation. If we just pick up a Lofton or someone like that this offseason we could have had talked about how we could have improved or who we had for the future... no now we're complaining that we are trading our young spects for the future for something we need NOW. Instead for picking up a ok CF and talking about how great the future was gonna be

[seabeachfred]

If we wound up getting both Crisp and Matos we would find ourselves in the same position as we did last season when we had four regular outfielders for three positions and it caused a lot of problems for us. It also led to Jay Paayton raising enough hell to get a trade out of Boston. If we trade for Matos, the deal for Crisp should be over. None of the four outfielders will accept a backup role and that could once again lead to dissension. The Red Sox had better be very careful about this.

[Manny Goes Boom]

If we wound up getting both Crisp and Matos we would find ourselves in the same position as we did last season when we had four regular outfielders for three positions and it caused a lot of problems for us. It also led to Jay Paayton raising enough hell to get a trade out of Boston. If we trade for Matos, the deal for Crisp should be over. None of the four outfielders will accept a backup role and that could once again lead to dissension. The Red Sox had better be very careful about this.

 

It's one or the other not both. Nobody here meant both.

 

But I have a question...why is everyone acting like the box of cereal is the only option available in baseball. Theres plenty of options. Theo is a mad scientist when it comes to making deals. Here's what I say, drop the Crisp idea off at General Mills, and find someone else.

[riverside sluggers]

The one thing I would like to know is why did we even put ourselfs in this spot. When we found out Jonny was packing it up for the extra dollars then we should have done two things. One pick up the best CF free agent left and then talked to other teams asking for a back-up. Not holding out waiting for Theo to come back and too scared to pull a deal except for the easy ones. Pulling deals that takes guts can pay out heavily for a team like trading for Damon or Ortiz. These deals were done without hesitation. If we just pick up a Lofton or someone like that this offseason we could have had talked about how we could have improved or who we had for the future... no now we're complaining that we are trading our young spects for the future for something we need NOW. Instead for picking up a ok CF and talking about how great the future was gonna be

 

There wasnt actually a surplus or even handful of decent free agent center fielders when johnny signed with the yankees. And anyways, Lofton had already signed with the Dodgers by that time.

------------------------------------------------------------

Guapo34: I'd be shocked if this deal doesn't happen. The Guardians couldn't have thought Mota was a huge upgrade of Riske. Did they think they'd be getting the old version 100% if his physical was spotless? Why would they even expect his physical to be great when he was injured fairly recently? The key pieces to the trade, Crisp and Marte, have nothing wrong with them.

 

What should be evident is the fact the Sox would become the laughing stock again if a trade for a center fielder falls through. I bet anything we start seeing the "no center fielder" article rants about the red sox again.

[riverside sluggers]

Where are you getting that information. A baseball team doesn't do million dollar deals that directly affect their teams performance without making sure they aren't getting damaged goods. I'm sorry but you must be wrong.

 

here's something info to back you up ksushi, this is coming from Chris Snow of the Boston Globe

 

Mota missed the last week of April and almost all of May last season with elbow inflammation and was shut down for two weeks in September with inflammation in his shoulder. But Katz said Mota's arm ''was good enough for Florida, good enough for Boston, and good enough for James Andrews, who cleared him."

 

By that, Katz meant that Florida allowed the 32-year-old Mota to resume pitching the last week of the season, the Sox accepted him in a deal, and Andrews, the noted orthopedist, cleared him following an examination (which Katz said took place before Mota was dealt to the Sox).

 

Andrews also saw Josh Beckett after the season and declared the 25-year-old's shoulder problems to be tendinitis and no more. Still, it's become readily apparent that the Sox, in the Beckett deal, took on two pitchers with arm concerns.

[ksushi]

Yeah, teams don't do big money deals like this without first inspecting the package. I really think he must have passed his physical in clevland, either that or Shapiro is shaking the sox down for more, in which case you just hang up the phone.

 

I don't know why people are so hopelessly in love with coco that they still want to keep this deal alive if we have to keep bolstering the package. If we have to put Delcarmen in a deal without a subsequent upgrade of Clevelands package it just isn't worth doing. I think most people agree that the rational thing to do right now is pull the trigger on Mato's, begin talks about Michaels (and yes one of them will be a backup since both of them are currently right now backups) and cover your ass. Go after Coco, but you can't allow yourself to be backed into trading away young inexpensive pitchers with a lot of upside for... Josh Bard? Maybe David Riske if Shapiro is in a good mood? Forget that.

[MC Hammer]

They should pull the trigger on the Matos deal, so the Guardians will know the Sox are not desperate for the deal.

... ya and I'm sure they'd run home and cry themselves to sleep.

 

Dude you don't make season changing decisions just to spite another team for not agreeing to a trade. Do you really think the Guardians are going to be heart broken that we decided to trade with another team? A move made in spite is a bad one, and that would be the only reason to go trade for Matos. .260 .316 .379, Adding those numbers to our lineup isn't going to help us out at all ... it's just a way of saying. "Ha see I dont need you". Then, since Matos will inevitably fail in Boston, the next time we try to make a trade with the Guardians they'll want even more in return.

[a700hitter]

... ya and I'm sure they'd run home and cry themselves to sleep.

 

Dude you don't make season changing decisions just to spite another team for not agreeing to a trade. Do you really think the Guardians are going to be heart broken that we decided to trade with another team? A move made in spite is a bad one, and that would be the only reason to go trade for Matos. .260 .316 .379, Adding those numbers to our lineup isn't going to help us out at all ... it's just a way of saying. "Ha see I dont need you". Then, since Matos will inevitably fail in Boston, the next time we try to make a trade with the Guardians they'll want even more in return.

This has nothing to do with spite. You haven't been following the thread. I and a number of other posters believe that we should make the Matos trade regardless of whether the Crisp trade goes through, because we need a RH fourth OF to platoon with Nixon. Additionally, making this move sooner than later would be a good negotiating tactic with Cleveland as it would show Cleveland that we are not desperate for Crisp. Mota has passed his physicals. The Guardians are engaging in gamesmanship-- a bluffing game. One way to counter this tactic is to make the other deal first and hold fast on our refusal to include additional prospects.

[Beckett95]

new 9 player deal is being disscussed, with Clement going to the Reds and Kearns going to Clev.

 

According to the Boston Herald, the Reds are interested in getting back into the Coco Crisp deal, making a nine-player swap a possibility.

We're still not sure of the details here, but as reported earlier, Matt Clement would likely go to Cincinnati and Austin Kearns would be sent to Cleveland. We assume Andy Marte would still go Cleveland. Also, the agreed-upon Jason Michaels-for-Arthur Rhodes swap would probably be killed off. Jan. 25 - 3:28 am et

 

have no idea really who the 9 players are,

 

Maybe...

 

Red Sox get-- Riske, Crisp, Brad Snyder, Nick Pesco

 

Guardians get--Marte, Kearns, Shoppach

 

Reds get-- Clement, Randy Beam

 

i dont no, just throwing it out there

 

also just read that the Reds GM that got fired, screwed up a 9 team deal earlier this winter involving the re sox, Guardians and reds

 

http://www.journal-news.com/sports/content/sports/stories/2006/01/24/hjn0125redsweb.html

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I would rather just give up Matt Clement for Austin Kearns. If the Guardians were interested in Kearns then I would trade them Kearns straight up or Kearns and a reliever for Coco Crisp...In no way when involving a third team should we have to give up a starting pitcher and our top prospect for basically one good outfielder. The prospects in Cleveland are not good enough to make it more lucrative unless they involve Sowers or Smith.

[Beckett95]

buster olneys take on everything the red sox are doing--

The Red Sox announced the new/old front-office structure with a press release, and Bob Ryan had a good laugh reading the text of that.

We can say this for the Red Sox: If there wasn't a power struggle, as principal owner John Henry maintains -- if that's all mythology -- then they have a novel way of solving disagreements. Maybe they can draw up a new manual and make it part of the Fenway Park personal seat license gift bag. You might expect to see the "Boston Red Sox 10 Simple Rules for Management" in bookstores soon, right alongside those Jack Welch and Donald Trump business guides.

 

Roll the '60s elevator music, please.

 

Rule No. 1: If disagreements arise between you and a colleague, don't hash it out; that never works. Just quit, and make sure you do so right before a crucial period in your company's business. By walking away from the job, you'll open up new and better lines of communication. ...

 

Rule No. 4: The departing employee should always go out and look for another job. And in the interim, his colleagues should work very hard to replace him; bring in lots of candidates, and if you prefer, actually move to the edge of hiring one of them. This will bring discussions about your core disagreements to the forefront of business, especially in the midst of company work. ...

 

Rule No. 6: The employee who walked away should re-establish direct communication with the head of his former company -- and, if preferable, the boss of his office rival. Heck, stop by the offices some time to talk business, share a couple of bottles of pop. This way, disagreements can be discussed around the edges. In some quarters, that would be called "going over the head of your ex-supervisor." We prefer to call it "hammering out a vision." ...

 

Rule No. 10: If you operate a high-profile business, just tell inquiring media what you want them to hear. "Everything is perfecto, and you know what -- it always was" is a good manifesto. Or maybe, "We had each other at hello." Or perhaps, "What disagreements? Who had disagreements?" It could be that a few of those pesky reporters will believe it, but even better, you'll start believing it, too.

 

Oh, well. As Bob Ryan writes, forget what they say and watch what they do and we'll know the truth. And in the end, the Red Sox season will come down to the pitching -- the on-the-field kind of pitching, not the other kind -- of Curt Schilling, Keith Foulke, Josh Beckett, and the four up-and-coming youngsters.

 

Steve Buckley's not buying the spin, either.

 

Within this notebook, there is word of Curt Schilling's recent condition, from Curt himself.

 

There are semantics being played with Guillermo Mota's condition, as well. No matter how you want to portray it, the Guardians are saying they don't want to make the Coco Crisp trade, as currently constructed, without a change to its fundamental structure because of the condition of Mota's shoulder. The Red Sox and Guardians already had talked about other versions of this deal, in preparation for the possibility that Mota failed his physical. And it may be that the Red Sox will have to part with Manny Delcarmen to make this work.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

From the beginning the Guardians said they never wanted to trade Coco Crisp. Follow that up with the GM or whoever it was that was on vacation coming back and getting all pissed off cause the deal leaked out. He stated its bad for a team and the players if they hear they may be traded. Then they come out and say Guillermo Mota failed his physical....think its possible they just don't want to part with Crisp?? We were already giving up too much....personally I think the Guardians can go to hell and deal with there pitching problems another way.

[BoSox_Babe]

that sucks...i love coco.

[Beckett95]

Guillermo Mota hasn't "failed" his physical yet, its just that the Guardians are "concerned about his elbow".

 

In other words, the Guardians are backing out of the deal.

[BoSox_Babe]

yeah...but that was expected...they dont want to loose coco...

[kidneyboyNhamstergirl]

jsinger is a moron he says the exact same thing in every post tell him to shut up or get more materials

[Beckett95]

ok..............

 

why do you care, if you've only made one post on this site?

[a700hitter]

jsinger is a moron he says the exact same thing in every post tell him to shut up or get more materials

Your first post and you are throwing stones at other posters? Not showing much creativity yourself.:thumbdown

[MC Hammer]

This has nothing to do with spite. You haven't been following the thread. I and a number of other posters believe that we should make the Matos trade regardless of whether the Crisp trade goes through, because we need a RH fourth OF to platoon with Nixon. Additionally, making this move sooner than later would be a good negotiating tactic with Cleveland as it would show Cleveland that we are not desperate for Crisp. Mota has passed his physicals. The Guardians are engaging in gamesmanship-- a bluffing game. One way to counter this tactic is to make the other deal first and hold fast on our refusal to include additional prospects.

I have read the thread and your last post didn't say "we should just get matos" it said "we should get Matos is the Guardians are gonna act like this". Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but your statement is definatly spitefull.

[Beckett95]

espn--

The Red Sox and Guardians are trying to restructure the Coco Crisp-to-Boston deal Wednesday, while Cleveland's deal with Philadelphia (Jason Michaels for Arthur Rhodes) was described as being "in a holding pattern," according to a source involved in those discussions.

 

The Guardians' position for weeks has been that they couldn't trade either Crisp or Rhodes without getting big-league replacements. So when Guillermo Mota failed his physical in Cleveland on Tuesday, it endangered both deals.

 

It's possible the Red Sox could substitute a reliever (perhaps highly regarded prospect Manny Delcarmen), which would allow both trades to take place basically as previously devised. But sources said that the Guardians always preferred Reds outfielder Austin Kearns to Michaels.

 

So it's also possible that, with the firing of Reds GM Dan O'Brien, the Guardians and Red Sox will attempt to revive their much-discussed three-way trade with Cincinnati that would have sent Kearns to Cleveland, Crisp to Boston and Matt Clement to Cincinnati. It was O'Brien who killed the most recent version of that one last week.

 

The Phillies, meanwhile, preferred reliever Rafael Betancourt to Rhodes. But Cleveland hasn't been willing to give up Betancourt.

 

If Michaels does go to Cleveland, rookie Shane Victorino would become the Phillies' primary extra outfielder. And the team then would attempt to trade for a fifth outfielder in spring training.

 

 

its sounding more and more like Crisp won't be on the red sox next year.

 

one deal ive heard...

 

sox get--crisp, riske, bard

phillies get--clement

Guardians get--kearns, shoppach (maybe delcarmen??)

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/sports_blog/blog/2006/01/25/coco_milked_for_more/

 

theres also might be some low-level prospects involved. The firing of the old Reds GM makes this deal a possibility as it was turned down by O'Brien earlier this winter.

[Ray10]

Now it's being said that Declerman could be in the deal instead of Mota. Not a wise choice from the Red Sox side. And Mota is useless to us too if he can't even pass a physical it's obvious that his shoulder is out of wack and he may not be worth the bullpen spot.