Done to a Crisp and Gonzalez Too

[Beckett95]

edit, just want to throw this in to add insult to injury, there was a reporter from cleveland on EEI last week talking on the Big O about Crisp the first time we thought he was coming to Boston and he said not to expect much of Crisps arm and that at times it would seem to be just as bad as Damon's.... so yeah... about that arm.

 

ya, i was watching espn news and they asked some reporter from cleveland if crisp's arm is better than damons. The guy said he probably has one of the worst OF arms in the league.

[riverside sluggers]

now thats going a little farther from the truth, from what ive heard he still has an edge over damon's arm

 

scouting report

 

Baserunning & Defense

 

Crisp stole 20 bases in 2004, but he still needs to work on his leads and knowledge of pitchers. With his speed, he should be better than a 61-percent basestealer. The Guardians consider Crisp to be an above-average left fielder and an intriguing center fielder because he can hit with more power than most players who man the position. In left field, he comes in and goes back well on balls and is not afraid of the wall.

[yankeessuck013]

per Cleveland.com

 

Done deal: Guardians trade Crisp to Red Sox

 

7:42 p.m.

 

Paul Hoynes

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

The Coco Crisp trade is done.

 

Left-hander Arthur Rhodes' physical was the only thing delaying the three-team deal, but the Phillies were expected to make the acquisition of the veteran reliever official at 8 p.m.

 

The Guardians received outfielder Jason Michaels in exchange for Rhodes.That allowed the Guardians to send Crisp, switch-hitting catcher Josh Bard and right-hander David Riske to Boston for third base prospect Andy Marte, catcher Kelly Shoppach, right-hander Guillermo Mota, cash and a player to be named.

 

Boston right-hander Manny Delcarmen was not included in the deal. The trade, which stalled in midweek, regained momentum Friday morning when Rhodes flew to Philadelphia for a physical.

 

The Associated Press reported the Guardians agreed to Rhodes for Michaels portion of the trade pending his physical. Michaels will replace Crisp in left field. The Guardians believe Marte, scheduled to open the season at Class AAA Buffalo, will be their third baseman of the future.

 

They think he could develop into the middle-of-the-order right-handed hitter they've lacked. Shoppach hit 26 homers at Class AAA Pawtucket last year. He will compete to be Victor Martinez's backup.The player to be named would come from a list of prospects made available to the Guardians.

[RedSoxRooter]

wow. Marte, Shoppach, Mota, cash AND a player to be named? Ouch.

[riverside sluggers]

As it stands, I doubt the PTBNL is anyone really high on our list as Manny D has been ruled out

[Rdsxmbnt]

the PTBNL is problay some low-A prospect from a list the FO gave to CLE that will be decided at a later date. I doubt its any of our recently drafted 1st rounders or any kind of top prospect.

[ksushi]

MDC is not the kind of player who would be included in a deal as a player named later no worries there.

[ACL BoSox]

I think Crisp is the perfect fit for Boston

[Rdsxmbnt]

I think Crisp is the perfect fit for Boston

 

agreed

[jsinger121]

he better improve his obp quick or this deal will not work out.....a leadoff hitter needs to have better than a .332 career obp.....hopefully coming to fenway will improve his offense.

[Cityofchampions33]

His obp was only .021 lower than Damon's mot that big of a downgrade. Also he ahd his .300 average in his 3rd season, Damon in his 5th. IMO there's not that much rrom between Coco and Damon.

[Beckett95]

fenway helps him out a little and the fact that he has a much better lineup behind him should also help. Id guees around a .360 obp. He needs to learn to be more patient. He loves to swing at the first pitch which isnt good for a leadoff hitter. Damon would go into 6 pitch at-bats alot last year, which might not seem like much, but i can really help in the late innings.

[riverside sluggers]

he better improve his obp quick or this deal will not work out.....a leadoff hitter needs to have better than a .332 career obp.....hopefully coming to fenway will improve his offense.

 

youre looking at overall OBP, its evident each season he has been on the uptick, and still is just 26. The last 2 seasons were his first playing full time, so thats another important factor. As for OBP, I have stated and feel he could break .355 for his debut season in Boston.

 

2002- 32 games

1 HR, 9 RBIs--.260 avg--.314 OBP

 

2003- 99 games

3 HRs, 27 RBIs--.266 avg--.302 OBP

 

2004- 139 games

15 HRs, 71 RBIs--.297 avg--.344 OBP

 

2005- 145 games

16 HRs, 69 RBIs--.300 avg--.345 OBP

 

------

He loves to swing at the first pitch which isnt good for a leadoff hitter. Damon would go into 6 pitch at-bats alot last year, which might not seem like much, but i can really help in the late innings.

 

true but what favors Crisp is that he bodes a .380 avg when swinging on the first pitch

[Beckett95]

as long as hes getting on base somehow, i dont care.

 

my optimistic crisp projections---

 

20 HRs---75 RBIs---.313 AVG---.362 OBP---.835 OPS---120 R---17 SB

[Rdsxmbnt]

Crisp is much better than his career OBP says he is. His past two years have been when hes really broken out and i think a .350+ is expected and a reasonable projection. With Fenway maybe even in hte .360+ range which is very solid imo.

[elsrbueno]

I agree Crisp is a better offensive player than his career numbers. His average, on base percentage, and slugging (and therefore OPS) are all on the rise. He's 26 so this is much much better than trading for a Jim Edmonds or another aging superstar.

 

Getting Crisp in and of itself is a step in the right direction. He's young, cheap, and athletic, and a hard worker, a sparkplug, and a fan favorite. This trade helps the Sox out in the short term because Andy Marte is probably a year away, and hopefully this guy is wrong:

 

A National League scout on Boston third-base prospect Andy Marte, whom the Guardians have hotly pursued in a deal for Coco Crisp: "He's the best prospect I've scouted in 10 years, hands down. He reminds me of a young Manny Ramirez, but with a steadier personality."

 

Link: http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindealer/roger_brown/index.ssf?/base/sports/1138354249287440.xml&coll=2&thispage=2

 

I do absolutely agree that giving up Marte for Crisp is much better than giving up Lester or Papelbon for Reed. Crisp is the better offensive player RIGHT NOW, and obviously this trade was made with the present in mind. But we also gave up Shoppach and Mota in this deal, and while Riske had a lower ERA and WHIP, his strikeout rate has declined steadily the past 3 years while Shoppach has been praised for his glove AND can hit for power, Josh Bard has never hit I don't like this scouting report (from ESPN):

 

Bard is a switch-hitter with a line-drive swing. He hit better late in the season after hitting coach Eddie Murray convinced him to open his stance and be more aggressive when he was ahead in the count. Defensively, Bard calls a good game and threw out 31.7 percent (19-for-60) of the basestealers he faced. But at times he struggled to catch the ball cleanly and block balls in the dirt. Bard worked with catching coach Joel Skinner to cut down his movement behind the plate. Bard runs like you'd think a sore-kneed, 215-pound catcher would.

 

Granted, I'm sure Shoppach is also very slow... but I just don't have a warm toasy feeling about this deal.

 

MAYBE Crisp is the best option out there. He certainly seems to have been the one option that's presented itself. Don't get me wrong, if this trade goes through, Crisp seems like the kind of player I'd LOVE to have... it just seems like he costs too much.

[ksushi]

I think Shoppach was in the deal to make up the difference between Riske and Mota, Riske clearly being batter, and Bard was a spare part. The Guardians covetted Marte and we needed a centerfielder, they polish our bullpen, we'll give them a good defensive catcher and it evens out the lopsidedness of Crisp for Marte straight up.

 

Crisp for Marte straight up is tough to swallow IF Marte's arm troubles and his bad recent numbers turn out to be nothing. I think they are nothing, I think Marte is a human home-run machine with a great glove.

[ACL BoSox]

The more I look the deal over the more I like it. Crisp is an extremely versatile hitter and he has that Dirt Dog mentality that is going to make him a fan favorite in Boston.

[example1]

I think it is now obvious that the Sox FO has a really high opinion of Coco Crisp. I tend to trust their intuitions about young players and hope they will be right. Crisp could end up looking like a great acquisition in a few years (or this year, if they're a contender).

[yankeessuck013]

I'm pretty excited about Riske too...I think the Sox have one of the best bullpens (on paper as of right now) in the majors. If Foulke comes back from surgery half as good as he was in '04 we will be all set. Tavarez in the 6th Riske in the 7th, Timlin in the 8th and Foulke in the 9th talk about turning a weakness into a stregth. Also I shouldn't forget Rudy Seanez and the lefty Jon Lester if they bring him up which I'm sure they will as he is about ready to face batters in the majors and probably be a starter within a year or so. That's just nasty.

[ACL BoSox]

Imagine what our rotation will look like for the 2007 season.

 

Beckett

Wake

Papelbon

Lester

Arroyo/Clement/Zito(possibly a FA acquisition)

[Beckett95]

a top 3 in the rotation of Beckett, Lester and Papelbon in a couple of years could be as good if not better than the A's Mulder, Zito, Hudson from 2 years ago.

[yankeessuck013]

Boston.com is reporting this deal is OFFICIAL now.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/01/27/done_deal_sox_land_crisp/

[Beckett95]

anyone know when the A. Gonzalez signing is supposed to be announced? Didnt he have his physical on monday or tuesday.

[26 to 6]

Boston.com is reporting this deal is OFFICIAL now.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/01/27/done_deal_sox_land_crisp/

Thats what i'm hearing too!

 

Glad to finalkly get this one done. Now I will enjoy not having to face Marte, and get eaten alive by Marte, for 19 games a year for the next 20 years haha.

[yankeessuck013]

anyone know when the A. Gonzalez signing is supposed to be announced? Didnt he have his physical on monday or tuesday.

 

I wouldnt be surprised if they wanted to announce it together with Crisp cause when the rumor first came out it said we would get crisp and then sign gonzalez at ss. Guess we will just have to wait and see. Hopefully it will be announced this weekend.

 

And then we can FINALLY take a deep breath !!

[ksushi]

Imagine what our rotation will look like for the 2007 season.

 

Beckett

Wake

Papelbon

Lester

Arroyo/Clement/Zito(possibly a FA acquisition)

 

 

I dont expect the sox to take a hard run at Zito to be honest. I think the Sox will sign Mark Mulder. I know this is forecasting way in advance but i do this sometimes. This is a ksushi patented prophecy, I called Renteria when Nomar rejected the extension and I called Ortiz's first 40 homer season in the offseason coming off of his 31. Other stuff too but no need to list, I'm sure you all know how amazing my talents are... I jest. Seriously though I think Mulder will be signed by the Red Sox next year. I guarentee it.

[Sox Fan on Cape]

Thats what i'm hearing too!

 

Glad to finalkly get this one done. Now I will enjoy not having to face Marte, and get eaten alive by Marte, for 19 games a year for the next 20 years haha.

I just saw the announcement on WBZ channel 4. The original deal, but two additions. One the proverbial player to be named latter and $ 1 million from the Sox. The 1 million has to be approved by the league. So the deal is not official yet.

[yankeessuck013]

Everybody is reporting this, so I think this is as "official" as it's gonna get.

[ACL BoSox]

Thats what i'm hearing too!

 

Glad to finalkly get this one done. Now I will enjoy not having to face Marte, and get eaten alive by Marte, for 19 games a year for the next 20 years haha.

 

If I were in the Yankees shoes I'd rather see Marte. He's never played well on the MLB level and really hasn't proven anything. As I've stated before, I'm not a big fan of hitting prospects, most of them fizzle out. Crisp is a proven hitter with a decent track record against the Yankees. Riske is an improvement over Mota.

 

The Red Sox won out on this deal, BIG TIME.