Done to a Crisp and Gonzalez Too

[bosox318]

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=122417

 

Supposedly a done deal

If true thats to bad I think Marte is more valuable than crisp we will have to what else the Sox get

Marte would have been an excellent piece for the future of the Sx

[example1]

Can't really comment on the entire trade until its official. Obviously I love getting Crisp...but hate giving up Marte. The Guardians get the better talent, but we get the better talent for this year, and probably next year too. Marte could easily take 2-3 years before hes an above average major league player, but it will certainly happen. Crisps' road numbers make me believe he could put up close to a .900ops as a center fielder. Thats pretty damn good.

 

And if you think its rediculous to think he could put up a .900 OPS, his road OPS was .888 last year, and hes only 26. He hits more than enough to play a corner outfield position if we decide to move him there in 2007.

 

 

And if the Herald is wrong I'll still be happy.

 

Couldn't have put it better myself. I'm hoping the sox get someone else in addition to Crisp, hopefully somebody good. Crisp will be exciting to watch and should be at the top of their order for a few years.

 

Think about it this way; if this trade is for real then the sox FO didn't think that their future success hinged on whether or not Marte was on the team. They saw him as a chip, redeamable for another player who more closely suited their needs. Crisp is cheap. He hits with some pop and plays decent defense. He's the kind of player who is just a pain in the ass when you play against him. He's still young enough to be a key part of their future and he keeps the team competitive in the short term too. This is going to be a really solid team IMO. I love the skill from top to bottom in the lineup, I like the outfield of Manny-Crisp-Nixon. I like Crisp/Loretta/Ortiz/Manny at the top of the order.

 

I'm also happy that the sox have filled all of their holes without losing Lester, Papelbon, Pedroia or Hansen. I was looking forward to Marte, but I can get excited by Crisp too I think.

[a700hitter]

Do they make another move for a 4th OF?

[a700hitter]

What will be the price tag for Gonzalez?

[guapo34]

Do they make another move for a 4th OF?

 

I think thats where willie harris fits in. He's solid defensively, and can pinch run and steal bases. Hes somewhere close to 80% for his career in steals.

[RedSoxRooter]

I thought he was looking for 2 years @ 5 million per year.

 

Ehh, I don't know about this deal.

 

On the one hand, Crisp is locked up for 4 years and could really be a good addition. But I wanted to see Mota in a killer bullpen. Marte makes more sense as an Indian though I'd rather have seen the sox ship off Youk and Tavaris.

 

Whatever. Pitchers and catchers in 3 weeks. I'll feel a whole lot better about this team if Hansen makes the pen out of spring training.

 

Crisp

Loretta

Ortiz

Manny

Varitek

Nixon

Lowell

Youkilis

Gonzalez

[a700hitter]

Chris Snow of the Globe acknowledges ongoing talks, but nothing final:

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/01/22/pitch_count_keeps_mounting/

[RedSoxRooter]

I know the Globe is the mouthpiece of the team, but so far this year the Herald has been much more accurate on all levels.

[RedSoxRooter]

From Rotoworld.

 

It’s a sequence of events that may placate the media, but that doesn’t make it any less disturbing. Marte alone is worth more than Crisp, in our opinion, just as he was worth quite a bit more than Edgar Renteria. The Red Sox are giving up Guillermo Mota, too, and it's unclear what they'll be getting back along with Crisp. Gonzalez is an even bigger problem, especially if it's a multiyear deal. He's not much of an upgrade over Alex Cora, and Dustin Pedroia might be Boston's best option at shortstop by June 1.

[Damonwillfryforthis]

Is Gonzalez anymore of an upgrade over Cora? Neither are great hitters and I think Cora may be a little better defensively and cheaper. $5 mill a year for a double play ball waiting to happen isn't worth it, why sign Gonzalez when you have Cora or even Pedroia.

I like the addition of Crisp to the outfield!!! Young, talented, quick and cheap are all good things and he could be a replacement for Trot if he leaves next year.

[riverside sluggers]

Im not too thrilled with it, but im not too disappointed either. Glad that you get Marte out and glad that you weaken the bullpen, but not glad with the Crispy addition.

 

eh dont get too happy yet. Mota was still a question mark coming into the season if he could handle the AL or not. The bullpen hasnt really been weakened that us Red Sox fans should start get worried. Now its a good possibility that Craig Hansen or Manny DelCarmen will be able to compete for a spot in the bullpen

 

2006 Opening day Bullpen

**Bronson Arroyo

**Jonathan Papelbon

Lenny DiNardo

Manny DelCarmen or Criag Hansen

Rudy Seanez

Julian Tavarez

Mike Timlin

Keith Foulke

 

---------------------

 

I wish all the luck for Marte and his career.

 

Yay Optimism

 

Still I dont see why this thread has been such a downer. We have our center fielder, we have our leadoff hitter. Coco Crisp brings versitality and speed. With Fenway Park as his home now for 81 games, he has the potential even moreso to bash 20-25 HRs. He is in his prime at 26 years old and its like its a short term fix as he is under contract really for 4 seasons until he can hit free agency. The Red Sox are also expected to have another player in return, so its not just Crisp.

 

career

.291 batting avg with RISP

.301 batting avg with RISP/2 outs

 

Myself with others though, Im not getting this Alex Gonzalez signing. He's basically an expensive version of Cora. And Cora probably wouldve had a better year than him on the "D" side. Im guessing a 2 year deal, which would then push Pedroia back to getting ready for 2nd base in 2007. This move also might unfortunately mean the end of Tony G's short stint in Boston.

 

Nonetheless, a sigh of relief has lifted from me now. I cant wait till the season starts now.

[riverside sluggers]

If thats true about Harris as the 4th outfielder, then Tito is probably going to stop taking Trot out when there are lefty starting pitchers.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

Err...

 

Crisp is a great player, but is he really worth a potential 40 HR threat? I might rather stick a stopgap Davanon in for a year and hold onto Crisp.

 

But hey, if we're giving up Mota too, then the guys coming back besides Crisp HAVE to be pretty good, right?

 

Right?

[riverside sluggers]

My friend makes t-shirts in his part time job and is already set work on a coco crisp shirt haha

 

It has a picture of a Coco Crisp cereal box on the front, the back will say "The Balanced Breakfast for Red Sox Nation"

[MANNYHOF24]

I really love this deal. Lets face it their was so much question with Marte, from what ive heard he has been a disapointment in winterball, and he only hit in the 270's in the minors last year. The Red Sox got what they wanted a CF with speed that could fill the leadoff spot. Good move by the sox

[ahhchon]

jumping off the marte bandwagon..

 

john

[KeepTheFaith1229]

The deal is done. Just saw it on ESPN Bottomline.

[riverside sluggers]

im not jumping off of the marte bandwagon, he has potential to give them the big slugger that they have missed out on since Manny signed with us, wish him the best of luck. This just goes along the lines of how hard it can be to run a sports team, tough decisions have to be made. Boston acquired Coco who has the possibility of being here a good while as a cornerstone in the outfield.

[ORS]

I really love this deal. Lets face it their was so much question with Marte, from what ive heard he has been a disapointment in winterball, and he only hit in the 270's in the minors last year. The Red Sox got what they wanted a CF with speed that could fill the leadoff spot. Good move by the sox

What's impressive about Marte isn't his MiLB batting average; it's the fact that he's hit over 20 HR twice already despite being only 21. That's pretty rare. I'm not sold on the 40+ HR potential since his IsoP is only around .200, and most of the games best sluggers had .250+ IsoP in the minors.

[jsinger121]

espn.com reports the deal is near. they have the report the herald has so i don't think it is done yet.

[yankeessuck013]

This is a panic move. Crisp is a fine player, but if we could have had Michaels in excange for Mota and a B-prospect (My estimation), then this is nuts

 

Michaels/Marte > Crisp, imo.

 

Then again (if true), the writing on the wall has been predicting a panick move for weeks now, and i guess it's better then possibly trading Lester for Reed.

 

it's much harder to find a quality combination centerfielder/leadoff hitter/basestealer, than it is to find a third baseman. We had like three of them, right? It may be a knee-jerk move, but it fills some holes for us.

[Beckett95]

mlb.com says the deals close but not done

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060122&content_id=1299184&vkey=hotstove2005&fext=.jsp

CLEVELAND -- The Guardians are reportedly close to shipping outfielder Coco Crisp to the Red Sox for a package that includes reliever Guillermo Mota and third-base prospect Andy Marte.

The Boston Herald and Boston Globe both had reports on the potential deal in their Sunday editions, with the Herald reporting it was agreed upon in principle, contingent on the Guardians first finding a replacement for Crisp in the outfield.

 

According to the Herald report, the Guardians would spur the Crisp deal by sending left-hander Arthur Rhodes or right-hander Rafael Betancourt to the Phillies for outfielder Jason Michaels or by acquiring free agent Jeff DaVanon.

 

In addition to Crisp, the Herald is also reporting that the Sox are on the verge of signing free agent Alex Gonzalez. The 28-year-old former Florida Marlin is expected to play shortstop and bat ninth for Boston.

 

so much for the Front Office saying Lester, Papelbon and Marte were untouchable. Hopefully Marte is a bust and he plays like he did in winterball this year. This trade sucks because we got marte, maybe the best prospect in baseball, for an average SS. Crisp is more valuable than Renteria, but not as important as Marte might be. You could be trading a future Miguel Cabrera for decent CF. And the fact we give them Mota too is awful. Hopefully we get Blake, Dubois or Snyder to become our 4th OF. Theo coming back might have made things worse.

 

I think the Gonzalez signing is a good move. Hes a much more power and potential than cora and plays a little better defense. Cora hasnt played a whole year at SS since 2001. This also means that Graffanino is must likely gone.

 

Cora's (31) career stats

[u]G     AB   R   H   2B  3B  HR  RBI  TB  BB  SO  SB  CS  OBP  SLG  AVG [/u]
780  2211 228 540  92  25  30  197 772 159 291  25  13 .310 .349 .244 

 

Gonzalez's (28) career stats

[u]G    AB   R    H   2B  3B  HR  RBI  TB  BB  SO  SB  CS  OBP  SLG  AVG[/u]
896 3221  363 788 183  23  81  375 1260 170 672 23  17 .291 .391 .245 

 

LINEUP

1. Crisp (hopefully he can get his .332 obp up to at least .360 or Youk should lead off)

2. Loretta

3. Ortiz

4. Manny

5. Nixon

6. Lowell

7. Varitek

8. Youk

9. Gonzalez

 

BENCH

4th OF--???????

UTIL---Willie Harris

INF---Alex Cora

C---Flaherty/Huckaby/Shoppach

1st---J.T. Snow

 

ROTATION

1. Beckett

2. Schilling

3. Wakefield

4. Wells

5. Clement

 

BULLPEN

MRP--Bronson Arroyo

MRP--Lenny Dinardo (maybe trade graffanino for a LHP)

MRP--Rudy Seanez

SU--Mike Timlin

SU--Julian Tavarez

CL--Keith Foulke

 

dont no where to put papelbon unless they decide to go without a lefty in the pen. And also Dave Riske might be part of the crisp deal.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

Myself with others though, Im not getting this Alex Gonzalez signing. He's basically an expensive version of Cora. And Cora probably wouldve had a better year than him on the "D" side. Im guessing a 2 year deal, which would then push Pedroia back to getting ready for 2nd base in 2007. This move also might unfortunately mean the end of Tony G's short stint in Boston.

 

 

Gonzalez may come at a little higher price than we might have wanted, but he's no version of Cora by any stretch of the imagination. He had an extreme down year last year, and only played in 130 games. In 2003 he hit 18 home runs, and 23 in 2004. That was in Pro Player Stadium, a pitcher's park. True, he can't hit for average very well and doesn't get on base often, but if we can coax some more walks out of him and get him on more, we'll be fine.

 

Hitting in Fenway should get him to around 20 homers, if he can somewhat return to form. His average should be also be around .250-.275, but it's still an upgrade over Cora. We do downgrade in the field, but it's not like Gonzalez is going to make as many errors as Edgar last year.

 

He would only be here for one or two years, so why not get Pedroia some more experience in the minors? It couldn't hurt.

 

Not an OUTSTANDING acquisition (if it does indeed happen), but an upgrade and not too bad.

[jsinger121]

marte is not the best prospect but in baseball. he is a top 10 prospect but there are players better than him like delmon young, brandon wood, justin upton, jeremy hermida, BJ upton, alex gordon. i love marte but he is far from the best prospect in baseball. he is still though a great prospect who has 40 homer potential at thirdbase

[jimmycarter05]

Yes, I can live with this trade because Crisp is improving every year, and we also get a middle reliever, either Arthur Rhodes (2.08 ERA, 43 Ks in 43 Innings) or Rafeal Benatcourt(2.79 ERA 73 Ks in 67 innings) and a prospect(Don't know about who it is, someone can enlighten me) We get an improving OF who can move to LF or RF once Ellsbury comes up, a relibable bullpen guys because Mota was still a shaky guy coming off elbow immflammation, and hopefully a good prospect. Alex G, is like Cora, but much better with the bat, hitting 18 HRs and 23 HRs in 2003 and 2004 with solid defense, that's what you want out of your 9th hitter, just like the White Sox had with Juan Uribe. I like this, but who is the prospect?

[riverside sluggers]

Gonzalez may come at a little higher price than we might have wanted, but he's no version of Cora by any stretch of the imagination. He had an extreme down year last year, and only played in 130 games. In 2003 he hit 18 home runs, and 23 in 2004. That was in Pro Player Stadium, a pitcher's park. True, he can't hit for average very well and doesn't get on base often, but if we can coax some more walks out of him and get him on more, we'll be fine.

 

Hitting in Fenway should get him to around 20 homers, if he can somewhat return to form. His average should be also be around .250-.275, but it's still an upgrade over Cora. We do downgrade in the field, but it's not like Gonzalez is going to make as many errors as Edgar last year.

 

He would only be here for one or two years, so why not get Pedroia some more experience in the minors? It couldn't hurt.

 

Not an OUTSTANDING acquisition (if it does indeed happen), but an upgrade and not too bad.

 

Gonzalez would need a lot of walks IMO to imprive his OBP. Career OBP is .291, Cora's is at .310. Its most likely a 2 year contract, thats how his agent wanted it to be. Dont rule out that Pedroia can still take the starting 2nd baseman job in 2007. Besides Pedroia was even likely to start the year off in Triple A if Cora was pegged the starter, according to various reports

 

Though an added bonus is that, in just 8 games mind you, has hit well vs NYY with a .324 batting avg and .351 OBP

[Beckett95]

Yes, I can live with this trade because Crisp is improving every year, and we also get a middle reliever, either Arthur Rhodes (2.08 ERA, 43 Ks in 43 Innings) or Rafeal Benatcourt(2.79 ERA 73 Ks in 67 innings) and a prospect(Don't know about who it is, someone can enlighten me) We get an improving OF who can move to LF or RF once Ellsbury comes up, a relibable bullpen guys because Mota was still a shaky guy coming off elbow immflammation, and hopefully a good prospect. Alex G, is like Cora, but much better with the bat, hitting 18 HRs and 23 HRs in 2003 and 2004 with solid defense, that's what you want out of your 9th hitter, just like the White Sox had with Juan Uribe. I like this, but who is the prospect?

 

According to the Boston Herald, the Guardians will send Coco Crisp to the Red Sox for Andy Marte and Guillermo Mota after completing a deal with the Phillies that will net them Jason Michaels.

The Phillies would likely get Rafael Betancourt or Arthur Rhodes from the Guardians in return for Michaels, something that might allow them to put Ryan Madson in the rotation after all. Michaels would take over as the Guardians' left fielder and shouldn't be much of a downgrade. With Marte around to shove Aaron Boone aside by midseason or in 2007, this could be a huge win for the Guardians. Jan. 22 - 1:00 am et

 

rotoworld sayd yesterday the "prospect" we get in return is Brad Snyder, Ryan Garko and Jason Dubois. Snyder has got power potential and could platoon with Nixon this year in RF.

[jimmycarter05]

 

 

Oh, this trade sucks then!

[a700hitter]

But hey, if we're giving up Mota too, then the guys coming back besides Crisp HAVE to be pretty good, right?

I would not count on prospects coming our way. We have to hope that we are not packaging anyone else.:dunno:

[Beckett95]

Oh, this trade sucks then!

 

ya i would have wanted rhodes in the deal too. Maybe thats still a possibility.