Ortiz a Shoo-In for MVP

[26 to 6]

Give me a player who takes his break while his teams in the field over a man that takes a break when he needs to get a big hit or there's runners in scoring position anyday.

well thats your opinion. And you're probably 1 out of 25 people who would say that. Most people would take the best player in the league 30 or under as opposed to a power hitting DH. And I say best player in the league under 30 because even though Pujols is listed at 25 or 26, this guys is no doubt at least 30, which is why the Cards were reluctant to give him that big, long contract. And besides, I think A-Rod is a better all-around player anyway. The only person I throw into that conversation is Miguel Cabrera. And not to mentionA-Rod is better at 30 in most of the major offensive categories than the record holders were at 30.

[ksushi]

A-rod is less clutch then ortiz, cause ortiz is mr.clutch. He scares the hell out of the yankees organization and he is the biggest bargain in sox history. He will win MVP, and if he doesn't its because he was a DH and thats the only reason, this past week watching him play, i really think he deserves this award more then A-rod because he is carrying this team right now. A-rod might finish with 48 homers and ortiz might get 46, arod might back .310 and ortiz might bat .290 ortiz will get him in RBI's but even if he didn't he has been more of a force for this team then a-rod has on his. I don't even think he is the MVP of his team to be honest, it hurts me to say this, but I think Giambi might be the MVP of that team he has a collection of clutch hits, or Mo, just because hes a god. Seriously, Ortiz deserves this award, put your yankee fandom aside and your red sox fandom aside and think about who really deserves this award and I think Ortiz should get it. Either him or Raffy Palmiero, you know.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Stupidest argument ever.

 

 

League Leaders 2005

• Ranks 2nd in AL in HR (41) • Ranks 1st in AL in RBI (127)

• Ranks 2nd in AL in R (107) • Ranks 1st in AL in BB (92)

• Ranks 4th in AL in OBP (.397) • Ranks 2nd in AL in SLG (.600)

• Ranks 3rd in AL in OPS (.997)

 

 

• Ranks 2nd in AL in BA (.321) • Ranks 1st in AL in HR (41)

• Ranks 4th in AL in RBI (111) • Ranks 1st in AL in R (108)

• Ranks 3rd in AL in BB (81) • Ranks 2nd in AL in OBP (.421)

• Ranks 1st in AL in SLG (.600) • Ranks 1st in AL in OPS (1.022)

 

 

Seems pretty even. Quite honestly i dont care about MVP awards. An MVP award is not a world series trophy.

[Optimist]

Quite honestly i dont care about MVP awards. An MVP award is not a world series trophy.

 

Best argument made so far; I totally agree with you.

 

Neither of these guys care about MVP...why do we?

[26 to 6]

...that has what to do with the 2005 MVP race?

absolutely nothing.

[26 to 6]

Stupidest argument ever.

 

 

League Leaders 2005

• Ranks 2nd in AL in HR (41) • Ranks 1st in AL in RBI (127)

• Ranks 2nd in AL in R (107) • Ranks 1st in AL in BB (92)

• Ranks 4th in AL in OBP (.397) • Ranks 2nd in AL in SLG (.600)

• Ranks 3rd in AL in OPS (.997)

 

 

• Ranks 2nd in AL in BA (.321) • Ranks 1st in AL in HR (41)

• Ranks 4th in AL in RBI (111) • Ranks 1st in AL in R (108)

• Ranks 3rd in AL in BB (81) • Ranks 2nd in AL in OBP (.421)

• Ranks 1st in AL in SLG (.600) • Ranks 1st in AL in OPS (1.022)

 

 

Seems pretty even. Quite honestly i dont care about MVP awards. An MVP award is not a world series trophy.

which side is which player?

 

Neither of these guys care about MVP...why do we?

Im sure they care about it, even if they dont admit, though granted their number one focus is a ring.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

oops, the top one is Ortiz, bottom is A-Rod

[yankeessuck013]

Oh well, I almost hope Arod gets it, so he at least has something to look at in October other than the leaves changing color

 

Nah, Ortiz is the mvp!!!

[CrespoBlows]

Would anyone arguing for Ortiz care to take a look at how he's done in his last 11 games this season playing in the field? Oh...wait...

 

MVP stands for 'Most Valubale Player'...not 'Most Perfect Player.'

 

I believe A-Rod is an MVP. But come on, I'm a Red Sox fan, and I put up a better arguement than you did, and I did it half-heartedly.

 

Do you expect people to be that dumb, to believe A-Rod is better than Ortiz, because he is better in the field? Well, you seem to be that dumb, I mean your name is "Optimist". How could you be optimist about the Yankees chances?

[riverside sluggers]

Ortiz on MVP candidacy, on NESN post-game report "Well I dont think MVP candidacy should just look at if your a gold glove player or not. If you help your team win ball games, what does it matter what position you play each game, including what I do as the DH"

[MC Hammer]

Here's what I don't get. The award is Most Valuable Player right? But it appears that it's going to be won by Arod just because he plays the field. That doesn't make any sense. Is Arod the Most Valuable Yankee because of his glove work at 3rd ... I think not. Everyone wants to make it out like Arod is such a spectacular 3B, when in reality, he's average at best. We've all seen him misplay some very routine ground balls, and even muff a few throws. So please let's not act like this guy is gold glove material just because of the uniform he's wearing.

 

If MVPapi can stay ahead of Arod in HRs and still loses this award ... I don't even know what I'll do.

[BrentD22]

MVP

 

I don't care about the American Leagues MVP, they can name Dick Hurts from Holden for all I care. David "BIG PAPPI" Ortiz is our MVP and my MVP.

[Sizzlin22]

After last nights homer I tihnk Ortiz will now probabaly win the MVP. Yeah I flip flopped.

[riverside sluggers]

Toronto's Josh Towers rips on Ortiz, think he's just sour because he was hit with the loss

 

MVP display by Ortiz

Clubs fourth homer of series

By MIKE GANTER -- Toronto Sun

 

Prior to the game, Blue Jays manager John Gibbons wasn't prepared to say it. But after David Ortiz rapped out his fourth homer in the three-game series, this one to win the third and deciding game by a 5-3 score, Gibbons could not deny him his due any longer. "If that's not MVP, I don't know what is," Gibbons said. "He's got my vote."

 

Jays starter Josh Towers wasn't quite so inclined to hand Ortiz an award that should be highly contested, based primarily on the fact that Ortiz is a designated hitter and therefore does not play defense. But were it based solely on offensive contributions, Towers also would hand the award to Ortiz. "He's absolutely amazing," Towers said. "He had four home runs in three games here but he seems to do it every time. He doesn't quit. He finally gets a pitch to drive one and he drives it. He's a damn good hitter, no doubt about it."

 

When it was pointed out to Towers that Ortiz was wearing a Superman belt after the first game of the series, Towers' compliments dried up. "He did?" Towers asked. "He ain't Superman. If he were Superman he'd play defense. Maybe he's Shaq Superman."

 

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/MLB/Toronto/2005/09/15/1218220-sun.html

[Sizzlin22]

Towers is just pissed Ortiz kills his team.

[Varitek33]

Check out my user name for your AL MVP.

 

no :thumbdown

[26 to 6]

Here's what I don't get. The award is Most Valuable Player right? But it appears that it's going to be won by Arod just because he plays the field. That doesn't make any sense. Is Arod the Most Valuable Yankee because of his glove work at 3rd ... I think not. Everyone wants to make it out like Arod is such a spectacular 3B, when in reality, he's average at best. We've all seen him misplay some very routine ground balls, and even muff a few throws. So please let's not act like this guy is gold glove material just because of the uniform he's wearing.

 

If MVPapi can stay ahead of Arod in HRs and still loses this award ... I don't even know what I'll do.

I dont know, I think that for somebody who is in his second year at a new position that he is pretty damn good at it.

[ARod2212]

Here's what I don't get. The award is Most Valuable Player right? But it appears that it's going to be won by Arod just because he plays the field. That doesn't make any sense. Is Arod the Most Valuable Yankee because of his glove work at 3rd ... I think not. Everyone wants to make it out like Arod is such a spectacular 3B, when in reality, he's average at best. We've all seen him misplay some very routine ground balls, and even muff a few throws. So please let's not act like this guy is gold glove material just because of the uniform he's wearing.

 

If MVPapi can stay ahead of Arod in HRs and still loses this award ... I don't even know what I'll do.

3rd in Fielding Percentage among third basemen in the American League. Longest errorless streak in 7 years for Major League third baseman. That's a tiny bit better than 'average at best'. And infinitely better than Ortiz' defensive value this year.

 

OPS is the best stat for judging hitters, and OBP is the more important half of the stat. Rodriguez leads in both. Even throwing defense out the window, Rodriguez has still been a better player. Alex's outstanding defense is icing.

[ARod2212]

A-Rod, let me see how many teams has he led to WS championships.... Zero.

I guess we should give it to Curt Schilling then?

 

It's called the 2005 MVP.

[redsoxrules]

well i find getting clutch hits is better, i mean how many games did a rod won with his glove this year ?without ortiz in the lineup againts toronto they might have lost all 3 games and only be a half game lead now.

[YANKEESRULE]

well i find getting clutch hits is better, i mean how many games did a rod won with his glove this year ?without ortiz in the lineup againts toronto they might have lost all 3 games and only be a half game lead now.

 

He's actually won a few games with his defense. Sorry clutch hits are not a stat in baseball. Plus A-Rod has been playing good all year, despite 11 errors he's been MLB player of the month twice this year. He's had one game with 10 RBI's, plus he OPS is higher than Ortiz. I'm sorry ortiz is half a player. All he does is hit.

[redsoxrules]

without ortiz in the lineup the red sox are probly not in first place , the yanks without arod wouldnt be much of a difference,so who is more valuable

[MANNYHOF24]

Ortiz is half a player! Haha wow i bet you didnt say that last year when ortiz was single handedly brought the sox back from a 3-0 yanks lead. and Ortiz can play the field, its just their are better defensive options, during IL play Ortiz held his own at first making some nice plays.

[MANNYHOF24]

. He's had one game with 10 RBI's .

 

with out that one game, which only = 1 win here are the stats

 

Arod 38-102

 

Ortiz 42-130

[MANNYHOF24]

I rest my case with these stats

Ortiz-7th inning or later 292-17-45, RISP 343 7-81, RISP w/2outs 370 5-33

 

Arod-7th inning or later 296- 8-23 RISP 276 6 65 RISP w/2 outs 277 - 4 -32

 

Head to head- Ortiz 286-5-17

Arod 254- 5- 10

[MC Hammer]

MOST VALUABLE PLAYER

 

Definition of valuable: useful: of great importance or use or service.

 

Which player is more valuable to their team? Remeber it's not who's the best hitter, or the best all around player ... it's who has the most VALUE to his team.

 

The Red Sox sit in first place right now with Papi in the lineup. The Yankee currently sit in 2nd and are out of the playoffs. If Ortiz was taken off the Red Sox, Manny Ramirez would be Barry Bonds, and we would more than likely not be in the playoff hunt. If you took Arod off the Yankees they would still be 2nd, possibly 3rd in the division, and really in no worse shape than they are now, out of the playoffs.

 

If you look at it that way it's obvious that Ortiz is more valuable. Not only does Arod have more money around him, but he also has Shitfield, Matsucki, and Steroids, who all hit for power, and could pick up the slack and still leave the team with a very potent offense. Ortiz is the heart and soul of this offense, IMO, and losing him would be devastating.

[ARod2212]

MOST VALUABLE PLAYER

 

Definition of valuable: useful: of great importance or use or service.

 

Which player is more valuable to their team? Remeber it's not who's the best hitter, or the best all around player ... it's who has the most VALUE to his team.

I'm cutting and pasting here, because I want to attack it last

If you look at it that way it's obvious that Ortiz is more valuable. Not only does Arod have more money around him, but he also has Shitfield, Matsucki, and Steroids, who all hit for power, and could pick up the slack and still leave the team with a very potent offense. Ortiz is the heart and soul of this offense, IMO, and losing him would be devestating

First off, that is retarded in and of itself. You don't just remove 40 homerun, 1.000 OPS guys, replace them with Rey Sanchez and not suffer in the lineup. Argument is flawed off the bat, incredibly. Yankees would suffer just as much as (if not more than)the Sox would.

 

In baseball, value can only be definied by individual stats, which I'll get into in a little while. A player's value in baseball is his defense, his offense and to a much lesser extent, his 'intangibles'. Now in this case, Rodriguez has brought very good defense (top 3 in the league). Ortiz has brought no defensive value. Which means Ortiz has helped his team win 0 games in the field, and Rodriguez has helped win at least a few. (yes, games can be won or lost with fielding. The team that trades Garciaparra's offensive prowess for Doug M. and Cabrera should know that.) Next is their offensive statistics. Rodriguez is better in Average (which I don't put stock into anyway), and more importantly OPS and OBP, percentages of a hitter's success each plate appearance. These two stats are widely recognized as the most important tool to judge a hitter, because they judge success vs. opportunites. Again, advantage Rodriguez. Intangibles (clutchness, etc.) is hard to define, but hits in big spots do count for something, as does leadership. However, to think a homerun in the 3rd inning is worth less than in the 8th inning is just not smart. RBIs are RBIs, homeruns are homeruns. No matter where they come from, they help your team win. And while I absolutely give Ortiz the advantage in this category, it certainly does not make up for the discrepencies in the other sections to qualify him for MVP.

 

The Red Sox sit in first place right now with Papi in the lineup. The Yankee currently sit in 2nd and are out of the playoffs. If Ortiz was taken off the Red Sox, Manny Ramirez would be Barry Bonds, and we would more than likely not be in the playoff hunt. If you took Arod off the Yankees they would still be 2nd, possibly 3rd in the division, and really in no worse shape than they are now, out of the playoffs.

It just seems silly to hold it against him that the team has other good hitters on it.

Would you people get together and make up your mind.

 

 

Anyway..

 

A player's value is not determined by the rest of the team, or their standing. Suppose you have a player, who plays gold glove defense at short, hits 1.000 for the year with 525 homeruns in 525 at bats. Also suppose, that his team is absolutely terrible around him. His pitching staff gives up more runs than he puts on the board, and they go 0-162 for the season. Suppose a guy on a first place team hits .300 with 35 homers and 110 RBIs, best hitter on their team. Is the guy who is on the first place team more valuable because of their standing? I don't know, but it seems the guy with the better statistics was a bit more important to his team. Any way you slice it, the player on the 0-162 team had more value.

 

You can't penalize (or reward) a player for being on a good team. This isn't basketball or football, where if a guy puts up big numbers, success is guaranteed to follow for a team. You have a QB with Peyton's season last year, you are definitely winning some games. Put vintage Jordan on a bad basketball team, they make the playoffs. Vintage Gretzky would take even the NY Rangers to the playoffs. Baseball, you put Babe Ruth on the Royals, they're still in last place.

 

A player being valuable (most valuable) is not contingent upon his team's success, although they often do coincide.

[yankeessuck013]

http://cache.boston.com/images/bostondirtdogs//Headline_Archives/papi.jpg

http://cache.boston.com/images/bostondirtdogs//Headline_Archives/DO_9.14_reu.jpg

[ORS]

However, to think a homerun in the 3rd inning is worth less than in the 8th inning is just not smart. RBIs are RBIs, homeruns are homeruns. No matter where they come from, they help your team win.

On the surface and on paper that is correct. However, I feel that runs scored later in games do mean slightly more due to the fact that the other team has less outs to overcome them, and, as you know, outs are your most precious commodity. They wouldn't keep a close and late split if it didn't mean something.

 

Also, the people who vote for this award are impressed by clutch hitting as much as the casual fan.

 

I'm not trying to argue for or against either player because I think it is a meaningless award. But I don't think runs scored in early in games are as important as runs scored late. I would feel much better if the Sox went down by 3 to a HR early in the game as opposed to late.

[riverside sluggers]

he's just scared Arod wont get it, aww