Ortiz a Shoo-In for MVP

[CrespoBlows]

he hasnt played enough first base to make a valid judgement of that.

 

You asked for a reference, you got it. Don't throw it out, because it hurts your arguement.

[redsoxrules]

lmao yeah. That was a classic example of a "clutch" defensive play. Something Ortiz cant do.

what clutch play any third baseman would have made that play

[Optimist]

what clutch play any third baseman would have made that play

 

Someone's grasping...

[yankeessuck013]

what clutch play any third baseman would have made that play

 

it did look pretty routine

[HOFer51]

it did look pretty routine

*insert rofl icon here*

[ARod2212]

what clutch play any third baseman would have made that play

Ah, yes. This proves Ortiz is better. Thank God I now see the light. (I was going to ignore you, but I guess I'll just make fun of you)

 

if you watched any of the sox games during interleague ortiz picked numerous balls out of the dirt to save runs.

I guess that begs the obvious question, why doesn't he play there everyday?

[yankeessuck013]

I'm also sure it's every "little" yankee fans wet dream to have Papi in pinstripes and I'm sure that every team in MLB would take that half a player. Will Ortiz get the shaft as all the sports writers that vote are "old school"? But as it is said IGNORANCE IS BLISS.

[CrespoBlows]

That was a great play. I was stunned that he could get the DP off in time.

[CrespoBlows]

I'm also sure it's every "little" yankee fans wet dream to have Papi in pinstripes and I'm sure that every team in MLB would take that half a player. Will Ortiz get the shaft as all the sports writers that vote are "old school"? But as it is said IGNORANCE IS BLISS.

 

And you would explode in your pants if the Red Sox got A-Rod, or Jeter.

[HOFer51]

That was a great play. I was stunned that he could get the DP off in time.

finally, I was waiting for your voice of reason, ya know.

[HOFer51]

And you would explode in your pants if the Red Sox got A-Rod, or Jeter.

or even Giambi 2002/2005

[yankeessuck013]

or even Giambi 2002/2005

 

hmmm 2005 ortiz or 2005 giambi

 

ill pick ortiz 10 times outof 10

[CrespoBlows]

hmmm 2005 ortiz or 2005 giambi

 

ill pick ortiz 10 times outof 10

 

That wasn't the question. But if it makes you feel better you brought something completely obvious.

[HOFer51]

hmmm 2005 ortiz or 2005 giambi

 

ill pick ortiz 10 times outof 10

Oh. Sorry. I meant 2002 Giambi/ 2005 Giambi minus the first six weeks of the season.

[Matt Lawton]

Ortiz doesnt even play the field... if half of the yankees only concentrated on hitting they'll all be in MVP race... especially Matt Lawton

[26 to 6]

Sorry to interupt your orgy, but two points:

 

1. You can't base a players defense, on one play. You seem to forget that A-Rod's FRAA (Fielding Runs Against Average) is -7. Compare that with:

 

Bill Mueller: 4

Corey Koskie: 5

Alex Gonzalez: -7

Melvin Mora: -4

 

He is tied for the worst defensive 3rd basemen in the AL East. You got to give Gonzalez credit, since this is his 1st year at 3rd, A-Rod has two under his belt.

 

2. As for Ortiz' clutch defense, I recall a play in Game 3 of the World Series. That perfect throw to nail Suppan.

A-Rod has 1 under his belt. This is his second.

I dont see how oyu can deny that A-Rod has become a very good 3B. He always makes the plays, has a great arm and throws out a lot of runners that some 3Bmen wouldnt be able to, and hes just been fun to watch during his transition.

 

Ortiz: .298/43/131

 

Rice's numbers, minus about .015 BA, are the better estimate.

Please lets not even start comparing Ortiz to Rice. 2 different eras, its ridiculous.

 

You contridicted yourself. You stated you wanted A-Rod's stats from the past, but you threw out a clutch play by Ortiz. I'm kinda befuddled. Everyone knows Ortiz sucks at defense only a moron would object to that.

no he didnt. He was asking for the recent stats on A-Rod, not the past. Because as we all know A-Rod was having a hard time at 3B earlier in the year. So he was asking the stats over the last 3 months.

[26 to 6]

Ortiz doesnt even play the field... if half of the yankees only concentrated on hitting they'll all be in MVP race... especially Matt Lawton

O yea, a guy whose only played in the American League for a grand total of approximately 3 weeks this year. If I had a vote it would definately be for Matt Lawton.

[ORS]

Please lets not even start comparing Ortiz to Rice. 2 different eras, its ridiculous.

I was responding to this.

since 1972, when the DH started, theres only been 2 guys to win the AL MVP with playing over 40 games at DH, Jime Rice and Don Baylor. Rice had 46 HRs, 139 RBIs and batted .315 in 1978 and played 49 games at DH. Baylor had 39 HRs, 139RBIs and batted .296 in 1979 and was DH 65 times.

 

I doubt Ortiz's numbers will be like Rice's, but Baylor possibly, and I also don't know how many games he played at DH, but I'm just letting everyone know this.

[yankeessuck013]

Does any Red Sox fan on this board really believe that Alex Rodriguez should win the MVP? Please stand up and present your argument. Otherwise - this thread should have no more post

 

Remmy said this right. If the DH can't win the MVP than their shouldn't be a DH. Why not just tell every DH at the beggining of the season that they can't win a MVP award?

[YanksHater213]

I think A-Rod is the MVP.

[redsoxrules]

OPS is the best stat for judging hitters, and OBP is the more important half of the stat. Rodriguez leads in both. Even throwing defense out the window, Rodriguez has still been a better player. Alex's outstanding defense is icing.

 

weird last years mvp didnt lead in OPS or OBP

[YanksHater213]

This has probably been said, but this is why A-Rod is the MVP. If you compare him with Ortiz, they have similar stats. A-Rod plays the field which gives him a leg up in some peoples minds. Now if you took A-Rod out of the Yankees lineup, you would be taking out the only consistent player on that team (maybe with the exception of Rivera). But if you took out Papi, you would still have Manny, Varitek, Mueller, and a few other guys who have had very solid seasons. Now you might argue that Ortiz has more game winning hits, but I think those are overrated, because they count for the same amount whether they come in the 1st inning, 9th inning or 983rd inning. The award is Most VALUABLE Player. And I interpret that as the player who has the most value to his team. And this year I truly believe it was A-Rod. You could make a case for Ortiz, and an even better one for Victor Martinez, but from a non-biased point of view, A-Rod is the MVP.

 

Go ahead, bash away. It will just show how biased you people are for thinking Ortiz is more valuable.

[ARod2212]

Does any Red Sox fan on this board really believe that Alex Rodriguez should win the MVP? Please stand up and present your argument. Otherwise - this thread should have no more post

 

Remmy said this right. If the DH can't win the MVP than their shouldn't be a DH. Why not just tell every DH at the beggining of the season that they can't win a MVP award?

A DH can be the MVP, but he's got to have far and away better numbers than everyone else, like Bonds in 2001. Even if Barry was a DH, I would give him the MVP for that year. When the offensive statistics are razor close and one guy is providing defensive value, he should take precedence.

[HOFer51]

Ortiz doesnt even play the field... if half of the yankees only concentrated on hitting they'll all be in MVP race... especially Matt Lawton

MATT LAWTON?! die please.

[CrespoBlows]

A-Rod has 1 under his belt. This is his second.

I dont see how oyu can deny that A-Rod has become a very good 3B. He always makes the plays, has a great arm and throws out a lot of runners that some 3Bmen wouldnt be able to, and hes just been fun to watch during his transition.

no he didnt. He was asking for the recent stats on A-Rod, not the past. Because as we all know A-Rod was having a hard time at 3B earlier in the year. So he was asking the stats over the last 3 months.

 

A-Rod, has been OK. He hasn't been great. But, explain how he is the worst AL East defensive 3B? The stats are right in front of you. Don't dodge the question.

 

By the way, A-Rod is the MVP.

[HOFer51]

A-Rod, has been OK. He hasn't been great. But, explain how he is the worst AL East defensive 3B? The stats are right in front of you. Don't dodge the question.

 

By the way, A-Rod is the MVP.

Again, if you have the splits from June and later, that would be greatly appreciated.

[CrespoBlows]

Again, if you have the splits from June and later, that would be greatly appreciated.

 

Well if he went from -9 to -7, that's a +2 upgrade. Still 3rd worst in the AL East.

[ARod2212]

He went 60 something games without an error, best for a third baseman in 7 years. He's not a slouch out there.

[example1]

Ortiz doesnt even play the field... if half of the yankees only concentrated on hitting they'll all be in MVP race... especially Matt Lawton

 

I will ask this again: if A-Rod would be such a better hitter as a DH why WOULDN'T the Yanks play him there? His D is good, but its not noticably better than most other 3rd basemen. It is comparable to Mueller's D.

 

In fact he has blown a few games against the sox with his D. So yeah, he's good, but I don't think it would make him a better hitter to not play the field. That's a lame argument. As for Ortiz, the sox don't play him at 1st because they have better first basemen, period. Olerud is a former gold glover and Millar does a decent (I mean almost-decent) job at first.

[HOFer51]

I will ask this again: if A-Rod would be such a better hitter as a DH why WOULDN'T the Yanks play him there? His D is good, but its not noticably better than most other 3rd basemen. It is comparable to Mueller's D.

 

In fact he has blown a few games against the sox with his D. So yeah, he's good, but I don't think it would make him a better hitter to not play the field. That's a lame argument. As for Ortiz, the sox don't play him at 1st because they have better first basemen, period. Olerud is a former gold glover and Millar does a decent (I mean almost-decent) job at first.

Oh, you still remember the third game of the season?

 

And I dont think A-Rod is "comparable" to Mueller, that's putting A-Rod too low.