Hugh2

Agreed, Garcia didn't come up because he was ready but rather because guys kept going down. He looks much better at the plate vs. LHP so I can see him being a roster replacement for Refsnyder when he's ready but I think he needs at least a few more months in WOO. WHICH MEANS! we either convince Refsynder to play one more year or we are going out and adding a guy to replace him.

One thing I've been considering lately is that the cash payroll is going to be lower than the LT payroll. I think this drastically increases the chances that we not only go over the first LT limit but that we can spend up until the 2nd and maybe even a little over under the right scenario.

If someone goes down or get hurt, we could go from a glut of outfield players to having it be an area of need. Still, in that scenario the outfield is still probably in better shape than the infield now. If the Sox brough in a legit infielder and a legit ace by packaging up Duran/Abreu separately with some value added the team is going to be better off. I'm also open to the scenario, where the Sox trade two outfielders not named Roman for a 2b/3b and an SP2 and go out and sign someone like Kyle Tucker. I'm not saying this is going to happen or these are the guys but imagine subtracting Abreu/Duran but adding Marte/Ryan/Tucker. I think the team becomes a better team and can win 90 games, maybe even more if they retained Bregman to but now I might really be hitting the pipe. One thing to consider is the cash payroll is much lower than the luxury tax payroll. If the Sox have a hard "cash budget" then they likley have more to spend than we are all guessing here because up until the draft pick penalties going above the LT threshold is just money, which they will spend up until a certain point. I think a more realistic situation is to expect one big signing (moderate to big) and one big trade and a few moves we didn't see coming in the mold of the Aroldis Chapmans of the world, which we saw from last year can work out sometimes. But I really do not like a Yoshida/Garcia platoon in LF. Garcia might be a nice platoon player one day but I think he still needs to cook a little bit more

I like the "hobbled and broken-down pitchers" as projects, I don't like it when that's all they do. I liked Buehler so much more last year because they ALSO went out and got Crochet. Unlike a few years ago when all we got for Christmas was Corey Kluber

I think it would be the most Red Sox thing ever to have Sale not be very good (injury related) for almost half a decade, go to another team and win a CY Young, and then come back here and either stink or get hurt again. And we'd see the same people who complained about him every day here, then complained about trading him, will complain about trading back for him. I like Sale, I wish we didn't trade him, but he is injury prone and will be 37 next year. That ship has sailed.

And of those 4 how many are "sustainable winners"? they were all window teams, with the exception of Houston who did seem to extend their window, but they also started paying guys to do that. You've proven that you don't have to be the biggest spender to win, but I never denied that fact, but it's still ALSO a fact that there is a correlation between spending and winning. The Red Sox have the 3rd highest valuation of any mlb team. Last year they had the 5th highest revenue, but if you exlcude NY and LA the other teams were only $10 million more than them. They've been top 5 the past 10 years, and I'd argue that if you take the losing seasons recently out, given Bostons market size we should be the 3rd highest revenue generating team. There is ZERO reason why we can't spend. We can spend on players, player development, drafting, coaching, scouting etc etc. The point you're proving is that other things add value and create a winning atmosphere as well but when there is an undeniable link between spending and success a fan of the 3rd richest franchise in MLB should demand his club do both. Henry has spent in the past, he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room and tried to go cheap. I fully expect he has it in him to pivot back and try to do both. LA is the model to follow, of course we will never be LA, but we never had to be NY to beat NY but we acted pretty darn close to it to get there. I get there is risk, but to me, there is a difference between not spending heavily on free agent pitchers and then practically never spending. Crochet was a good move, but aside from trades when is the last time we signed a big time free agent pitcher? you can't keep trading 4 top prospects for elite pitching, eventually you will have a few good players and no one else on your roster. A Boston team, that returns to it's winning ways AND DOES not fall back into the 2020-2024 trap is one that does both, spends resources on drafting, trading and developing talent but also goes out and take a few big rips. You can convince in any given offseason that a certain set of guys "aren't the guys" but I refuse to accept year after year without any big free agent pitching aquisitions is the way to go.

So 3 in the past 20 years? and I mean, how many years did those teams suck to get top 3 picks to get there? the braves were horribly for like an entire decade. We are not a small market team. It IS possible to win, spend, and develop players. The Dodgers have a loaded farm system, and spend like crazy and yet still manage to dip below the luxury tax every few years. The Sox could easily do that with the revenue they have and enjoy sustained success. They just need the will and the demand for it.

Yeah look that's silly, you're right here. But at the end of the day if you don't pay the price of admission you don't get into the show. But go down the list of past world series winners, almost every single one of them has big name free agent pitchers on their roster. You get what you pay for, and yes that involves risk. But the boy who never asks a girl to dance never dances with a girl.

but like, that can work against you too. You sign a guy to 3 years and he's injured for 2 of them and then pitched great for another 3 afterwards. It's not the longevity that should scare you, it should be paying for a guy at 36 years of age and up.

This may be true, speed allows guys to make up for late jumps. But a defender who can jump quick will always cover more ground. Especially if they have better instincts and speed, which many CF do. More fly balls are hit to LF, because there are more RHH but over more balls go to CF. So having a guy who can cleanly make a play is very important.

I don't care enough to look up AGAIN what the exact number is but I thought it is something like 1/3 of all pitchers nowadays will have TJ surgery. So like.....if you sign guys you're going to get guys who have had the surgery or will at some point.

I don't think Durans value has dropped off as much as people think it has. He was still a 4 WAR player last year, That still makes him a fringe all star level player. The knock on him the year prior was he had a career year and he might not ever do that again, now a team might see a 3.5-4 war as more of a floor for him. I think by far the drop off in his value is mostly just having one less year of control.

The thing is Abreu never hit well against LHP even when he was exposed to them in the minors. What makes Abreu different than the other platoon LHB who can't hit LHP???

Detroit is never going to part with Skubal for just Duran no matter what math you use.

One of the reasons why I'm not too keen on platooning certain positions is because we already have one in the outfield. Abreu is a + 3 war player who pretty much sits vs. LHP. If you get a good platoon partner for him then you can pretty much emulate all star production in one of your corners but you can only do so much of that on your roster. You probably find more teams that want 162 game guys than that, so it makes sense that more teams are in on Duran/Rafaela.

Yup, I know everyone keeps name dropping Duran as the guy to go. Personally I think they should be willing to move any of their outfielders not named Roman Anthony in the right deal but I get why Duran is the one whos name keeps getting brought up. I don't think it' s a slam dunk, but I'd be moderately surprised if he's on this team in spring 2026

I've always been a big believer that QTY never makes up for quality when dealing with high end players. Trades like that just don't happen. Now, given Skubal only has one year of control left I think it's fair to say giving them players like Roman Anthony is not up for debate. It ain't happening, but they can do better than 3 prospects in the 6-20 range. Someone, somewhere is going to give up more impact players than that, and Detroit would take that deal.

Lets reverse course. Lets say the Red Sox had to trade Crochet. Would you rather have 2 legit high end young MLB players? like Roman Anthony/Payton Tolle? Or would you rather have a basket of prospects, none top 50 guys like Clarke/Garcia/Sandlin/Phillips? ADD: I'm in no way shape or form suggesting Anthony would or should be part of any trade for any player with one year of control. That is not the point of my post at all.

After seeing what the Angels got for Taylor Ward I don't know how anyone could be against trading one of our outfielders now. Rodriguez was a top 10 prospect in all of baseball, looked like he was becoming a MLB starting pitcher last year and is still just 24 years old. If the Sox packaged Abreu or Duran up with someone like Arias they should get a kings ransom.

It may be more realistic for Skubal to be traded at the deadline, but Detroit may think they can get more from him now. I'm sure they will entertain offers but at this point it's speculation. It's the beginning of the offseason and for every guy that gets traded there are 5 that were rumored to be on the trading block. But if he's legit available, the Sox would be dumb to not throw their hat in the ring on this.

I think a lot of this is just depth moves. We are going to see guys added this offseason that will be dfa'd before the season even begins.

This is how I see a lot of these moves. The team has a couple big holes right now. 3B/1B/SP2/RP They really need two corner infielders, a #2 starting pitcher and I'd also say another high end reliever as well. The reality is, the Sox are not going to go out and and sign everyone. THey're not going to resign Bregman, sign Kyle Schwarber, Edwin Diaz, and trade for Joe Ryan. I think a more realistic scenario, best case realistic scenario is they sign one big guy, and they trade for another big guy. Either way, they're going to plug up some of those holes with premium players and a few of them.......not so much. My point here is this that depending on how these moves play out depth may be more important at some positions than others. Maybe we need more depth on the corners, or up the middle and how the rest of this offseason plays out could determine whether these guys stick or not. In other words, I think some of the guys we traded for yesterday will be DFA's before the start of next season.

You made the same exact mistake of attributing Durans defense in 2023/2024 to 2025. I'm sorry but he took an obvious step back and I think it would be a gave miscalculation to assume he would become a better defender by moving over to a more demanding position. And I don't want to sound rude here but you pretty much lose all credibility by lumping Durans outfield play of 2022 and 2021 in there when he was pretty awful in the outfield. Nobody cares about errors, errors are a judgement call and can vary wildly depending on the person making the ruling. You could have a guy with 3-4 more errors where's another scorer on another team might of had those ruled as "hits" but that dude has crap range and/or takes poor routes to balls and is an inferior defender. But you would call the person with less errors better, and you would be wrong. I happen to think Duran is an ok defender, but the only elite year he really had was 2024 and I'm not sure he gets back to that, and certainly not because he moves to CF. I think he would be ok in CF, and if I'm wrong and you're right, and everyone else is wrong and you're right then that just makes Duran an even better trade chip. Because he'd be more valuable to a team who would put him in CF than a team who is going to plug him in LF. We need infielders, like....maybe 3 of them, we need pitching. We have a TON of holes. I also don't buy the right field is harder to play than cf in Fenway argument either. Right field is certainly more important at Fenway park than other ballparks but I think people just assume that makes it more important. No, I don't buy it. On average 3-5% more balls are hit to centerfield than right field and 1/2 the games are played away. You're going to get more outs with Rafaela in CF than anyone else on this team right now.

I don't think it's fair to say no research was done and Anthony is a centerfielder. But here's what the research says. Soxprospects.com "Strong defensive instincts make up for only average foot speed. Takes efficient routes when moving laterally, but on occasion will be a step slow reading balls over his head. Has primarily played center field, but started playing corner outfield more often in July 2024. Profiles best in the corner outfield long-term, but could play center at least at the beginning of his major league career if needed. Potential above-average defensive profile in the corner and average in center field." mlbpipeline.com "He has handled center field better than expected and the Red Sox believe he can stay there, though most scouts think he's destined for a corner once he slows down." Baseball America " Defensively, Anthony has spent most of his time in center field and prides himself on his defensive work, but he lacks the elite range of a true center fielder. His range and arm will be an asset in right or left field" I think he'd be fine in Center field, but saying only this one poster considers him a corner outfielder and no one else is a little short sighted. In terms of Duran, he's range slipped and he made more erros. That just doesn't dissappear when you move to a HARDER position. Sometimes guys just take a step back and skills decline. I'm not saying he can't get better moving over to CF, but I think just assuming he would be better there than LF is wrong.

Maybe this signals ownership optimism for a deal in 2027? because that's a big spot to burn for a guy who is going to come back and only have one year of team control left and maybe not even be able to play if there's a lock out.