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Actually the Eye Test is fine when done right. For instance, it’s worthless when only done on highlights. It’s very limited when watching televised games, and it’s not useful for comparisons between different teams. And too many seem to fall into the “I saw that guy make an error once” category. Also, fun fact. Eye Test is the choice of liars. It’s amazing how many people will say “I watch every game and he doesn’t get good jumps on flyballs.” Huh? What TV feed are you watching that shows the outfielders’ jumps? BTV on the other hand, is nice. Trade proposals have been around since 1870. BTV gives a good argument against all of the “let’s trade lots of garbage for an All Star” proposals that get dropped everywhere. Or even worse yet, the “let’s trade all our garbage plus one half-decent prospect for an All Star.” It gives trades that are actually fair. It can’t tell you both sides actually want to trade for those players. Just that the proposal is or isn’t stupid. Or do you miss the days of stupid trade proposals?? Is that it? For someone who offers no actual discussion content and lives solely to poopoo the ideas of others, you don’t like that a BTV has taken steps towards obsoleting you…

BTV, far from worthless, does accept the Red Sox trade. The Reds trade comes up far short, as anticipated. Again, most actual trades work on this model. That means it’s actually realistic. Whether or not the trades any random individual dreams up happen doesn’t change this. Neither did whether or not you like it or care about it…

Bleacher Report lists the Sox as #3 on their matches for a Dylan Cease trade. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10096703-the-top-10-landing-spots-for-white-sox-sp-dylan-cease-amid-mlb-trade-rumors They suggest Rafaela and Bleis for Cease, which is a trade I would make twice and pinch myself in between. Of course, they suggest the Reds as the #1 destination, with India and Spencer Steer heading to Chicago, which feels like a stupid trade for the White Sox. So now I’m questioning the Rafaela/Bleis thing…

The A’s won 86 games that year. Do not confuse them with the 2023 version. Bassitt is basically the older version of Montgomery. He makes about $21mill AAV, and if he wasn’t 33 when Toronto signed him, he might have been able to get a 5 year $100mill deal. Maybe. Of course he lacks Montgomery’s post season success, which apparently inflates his value even more for some reason. Montgomery, being 2 years younger and with said postseason success, is likely to get at least 5 years $100mill. That’s the floor. And also the floor I get off at…

… Which is exactly the aspect we have been talking about with them. And the only one, despite your repeated attempts to discredit the notion by expanding it…

So what makes Montgomery a journeyman? And not Scherzer, who has pitched for Arizona, Detroit, Washington, Los Angeles, New York and Texas? I mean, that’s a lot of teams. He’s entering Kimbrel Kountry…

That is because the Sox don’t draft pitchers well. It’s been going on for years, through different scouts, through different coaches, through different minor league development personnel. It’s not like it all falls on one aspect. Right now the two best pitchers the Sox have that they drafted are Houck and Crawford, both drafted in 2017. One in the first round, the other in the 17th. That’s not an indication of a solid draft strategy. That almost feels random. Of course a lot of it has to come from the pitcher himself. That can be hardest thing to fix…

Yes, and that is the fruits of their drought. Not like the 2023 draft helped them…

In the last 3 years Bassitt has a 3.41 ERA and Montgomery has a 3.48 ERA. Like Montgomery, Bassitt has also pitched for 3 teams over that stretch (journeyman?) but has more wins, quite possibly because the 3 teams he played for did win 276 games…

Leaders over the past 3 seasons: Wins: Julio Urias, Gerrit Cole, Chris Bassitt fWAR: Zack Wheeler, Kevin Gausman, Corbin Burnes ERA: Justin Verlander, Brandon Woodruff, Max Fried (same 3 for ERA- with Fried and Woodruff flipped) xFIP: Spencer Strider, Corbin Burnes, Logan Webb K/BB: George Kirby, Zack Eflin, Aaron Nola None of these really tell you the best 3 pitchers. But the presence of Bassitt really makes wins the most questionable list…

I’m no higher on Montgomery than you. Maybe even less. But I think he is going to cash in on his year. Look what one postseason did for Eovaldi back in 2018. And all that was based on one start and a relief outing in which he was the losing pitcher. Next thing you know, he was getting a bigger deal than former Cy Young winners…

Flailing miserably throughout the entire regular season for prolonged stretches and accruing numerous good draft picks…

Yeah he’s far from the guy I want them to most heavily target. I don’t mind him, but I agree with the early buzz that he is going to be in more demand than he should be…

Exactly why many are advocating disregarding W-L records. The misfortune of simply being on a bad team can HEAVILY influence them, but it doesn’t make the pitcher any worse…

This is an argument FOR ignoring W-L records in favor of other stats…

Ooooh. Odd mistake, but what the heck. Of course Robert probably costs something like Anthony plus Mayer. Except the White Sox might not be so into Mayer since they plan to start the season with top prospect Colson Montgomery at shortstop. (Another Montgomery!!) For Robert and Cease, it’s a farm-draining price that probably includes Anthony, Bello, Casas and Teel. Or something along those lines…

You mentioned 37yo Chris Martin, for one…

And those are legitimate reasons to hesitate. But if I’m the White Sox GM, I’m not budging from my ask of Anthony…

Robert’s price will be even higher. The White Sox unloaded 7 players at the deadline last year - all for prospects. They aren’t going to trade either of their elite controllable superstars for aging MLB players…

Official enough for Internet forum blather…

No team giving up their ace is going to want a 37yo reliever with one year left. Giving up an ace = rebuilding… If the price of Cease is Anthony, should the Sox do it?

Point? Both of those guys got paid by other teams. The Sox could short change every pitcher on the market and return with last year’s staff. Think that’s a good idea?

Andrew Bailey

He was extremely good at shortstop in 2022…

I’m fine with trades. I’d love to see the Sox get Dylan Cease, but he will most definitely cost Roman Anthony. That’s a lofty price in itself. If they want Anthony, should Breslow make the move?