moonslav59

Exactly, and if we assume the Sox model of not budging from their top offer was in play, we were likely never going to get Breggie as long as the Cubs offered what Brez was not allowed to offer and never would have been, even if he did everything right. Bloom got serious grief for bidding against himself on Masa. It's not always easy to know when that is happening. In hindsight, we all think, how can you not have known. Now, in hindsight, we are saying he should have known it was not a csae of bidding against himself.

Assuming all accounts are 100% accurate, my point is that as long as Brez was not allowed to budge on the no trade clause, any "botching" didn't matter- this time, but would still be concerning. Maybe the no trade clause could have been overlooked by Breggie, if he had felt respected, and Brez gave back some on the deferred money, but if Brez has no leeway on that, I come to the same "the botching didn't matter in this case," because the Cubs would have gotten him no matter what, and again, I'd still be concerned about Brez's techniques interfering with future signings, especially those I think are worth overpaying for. I am fully open to the idea Brez made some mistakes on this and likely several other talks. IMO, we were never going to give what the Cubs gave, and that the reasons were not of Brez's choices. That does not put him above criticism for things he did wrong, but I don't think Breggie was going to be a Sox, as long as that Cubs offer was out there.

I'm thinking it very likely happened. I wonder if it mattered.

While I see no indication the Twins might part with Keaschall, would he fit the bill? (We can't trade Mayer for him, unless we later trade an OF'er for a 3Bman like Paredes.) To me, Keaschall and Paredes would put us top 3, even if we lost Mayer plus an OF'er or Tolle.

Would Paredes (2B) and Suarez (3B) be enough? I know that's not happening, but... (Mayer would be in AAA.)

To be honest, I don't know much about other team's players, except by looking at stats and BTV values, years of control and AAV. Shaw looks very promising and is just 24. I think he has 5 years of control. Gotta love that, as long as he's good. We thought Jeter Downs might/would be good. We thought Grissom might/would be good. Baty has 4 years of control. I'd rather have a RHB, but he shows promise, too I'm pretty big on Tolle, and I'd still prefer to trade an OF'er for an infielder, but I'd probably do it, if I felt either of these two was going be valuable.

Just don't tell Fred we signed someone else's UT guy.

or if it might not be true.

While I do think it matters if a GM is turning off players to the point where they sign somewhere else out of disgust, uneasiness or because they feel like the other team appreciates them more, and maybe Brez caused some of this to happen. Maybe it influenced Breggie's choice- maybe it didn't. If it did, then "by all accounts he botched the talks" has merit. To me, Bregman did not fill the "big bat" need, but he's certainly better than DHam in the line-up. Contreras is better than Toro, but he did not fill the big bat need, either. We still need a big bat. We still need a 2B/3Bman. We will likely just get one- the 2B/3Bman. Two possible choices might be: Paredes: .around .800 and maybe an average fielder at best. Donovan: around .775 and a decent defensive 2Bman who can play other infield positions decently. That being said, chance are Brez gets someone nobody mentioned.

MLB announced the trade deadline for 2026 will be Monday August 3rd at 5 pm ET. Expect no major Sox trades.

Only the post season numbers are shown, so...

What planet do you live on?

LOL. Granted, nobody hangs out on my corner, but I do listen to sports talk radio while staying at a Holiday Inn Express.

I think almost all of us agreed we needed one big bat. Some wanted two. I think we all wanted a solid and dependable #2 SP'er, and some felt Gray was close enough- some didn't. We needed a 2B/3Bman, and some felt we could get one and fill the one big bat at the same time with KMarte, Breggie or Bichette. Some felt players like B & B and Paredes don't quite reach big bat status, but they'd fill the 2B/3B need well enough. We did not fill the big bat need. Contreras was a nice get, but he barely replaced Bregman's bat. Nobody is replacing Devers' bat. We have yet to fill the 2B/3B gaping hole, and it looks like no big bat options are out there for those positions, right now. Paredes and E Suarez come closest, but each have downsides- like the ES defense at 3B and what we need to give up to get IP. Now, we added to the rotation in more ways than any of imagined. On paper, the massive gains are indisputable. Whether it is enough to offset the non gains at other positions of need remains to be seen. We still have an OF/DH logjam. That's going on 2-3 years. It makes little sense to hold such strength on the bench, when you have such a glaring problem at 2B/3B. We also have added strength at SP'er depth, which is never a bad thing. It's hard to predict if we need that much, and that area also seems like we could spare one piece to give up to add a 2B/3B piece. Let's see what Brez still has in him. He's been a wheeler and dealer, recently.

Can't argue with that. The same could be said about every team's top 2 players, except maybe the Dodgers. Their 3rd and 4th best players are better than most teams' 1-2's.

I literally live on a street corner.

In this sense, I agree the past few management teams botched the roster construction and several of their biggest moves back-fired. If sticking to the no trade policy causes the team to keep missing out, then that can be considered evidence of a botch, but was it a Brez botch? You brought up some key points about logjammed areas, and we knew we had that last winter, but kept it as is while leaving big holes open. We even added KC to the OF mix for this year, but we did move the password. Another area was the rotation. I'm glad we beefed it up, but we went into the winter hearing the FO say "We need a #2 SP," but then we went out and made 3 of our 4 biggest additions SP'ers. We got the #2 SP'er last, and it makes you wonder if they'd take back the Gray trade, if they knew we'd get Suarez, and use those assets to get an infielder. Now, if we get a decent infielder, I'll be fine with the end result, but the path we have taken looks shaky, at best and aimless at worst.

You don't think they are bending in heaven? By all accounts they still are.

We need to plan for 26 injuries and have two full all star rosters by opening day, or else Brez is a complete failure.

By all accounts Brez botched the Ranger signing by not forcing him to defer money. I heard that on every street corner!

It seems like this could very well have been the main reason Breggie went to Chicago. It sounds plausible. If it is true, and Bloom was not given the opportunity to offer a no trade clause, it's hard for me to think that was a botch. Of course, he could have botched other aspects of the talks and hardened Breggie against coming back to BOS, and that's not a good thing, at all. If "bay all accounts" he did that, he made a mistake, but that does not mean he "botched" a signing that could never have happened, unless Breggie dropped the no trade clause. One could argue the animosity Brez caused made it more difficult for Breggie to drop the no trade clause demand, and maybe there is truth to that, and indirectly, that was a botch. To me, I don't know. I'm not throwing anyone under a bus before knowing. Brez seems to have some faults with communication and interpersonal relationships. That's kind of a human trait we all share to some degree.

You didn't give your opinion. That's the point. "I think we know what happened" is not saying what you think happened. Can you get that? No, it's not giving your opinion. You dont have to, if you dont want, but just don't say you gave one when you didnt. You just regurgitate what others say and try to imply that because by all accounts it makes something true or seem true, but again, you never said you think what they said was true. You simple won't say it. You don't have to have the opinion that Brez botched it or not. It's okay to say "I'm not sure," which is my position. What's silly is thinking that me saying I and nobody knows is somehow a defense of Brez. I'm fully open to the idea that Brez botched it or parts of it, and that maybe it didn't make a difference anyway, since the limits of where he could go were never going to get Breggie to sign. (That's a different subject, I know.) I never said i did not defend Bloom. Another lie. I did defend many of his moves and thought he fit the mold of what JH & Co were looking for- someone who could find "diamonds in the rough," but he largely failed at that. I often pointed out the impossible situation he was was put in and added context. I pointed out he left Brez with a decent core and farm. If you disagree, fine. If you agree he did, are you "DEFENDING BLOOM?" Gasp... You can't stop the outright lies. You think you know my positions and motives and you are just plain wrong. I'm not all black and white. I rarely try to pin blame on one person. Bloom & Brez made several serious mistakes- some more in hindsight, but some seemingly indefensible. Nobody is perfect.

But he can really bend that string better than Jimi, Eric and Jeff.

LOL. I was almost on the floor. I gotta ask this, let's assume all accounts were right: Brez thought the Cubs were bluffing and they weren't. Id that botching it? I counts as "misreading the room," for sure, but you don't botch anything if you walk away as the loser of a bid, if you made the best offer you were able to make. Sure, you may look silly as Breggie is snickering under his breathe and calling you a clown to his friends, but Brez was not the one that overpaid, gave a no trade clause to insure he's stuck with the guy and deferred less money than he could have to get Breggie. No, that would be the winner of the negotiations- the Cubs. Won't Breggie look so good as a Cubby? I'm glad we got Suarez. If Brez was baffled by the apparent bluff that wasnt a bluff, negotiations are a lot like poker. (Sorry for the lame apology, as I know Drew hates those.) He called the bluff while holding a decent hand (offer) and the other guy drew an inside straight. That doesn't automatically make Brez a clown. It's not like he was holding jack high on nothing in his hand.

I was gonna respond to both statements, too and agree. I don't think we budge much, but we may have on Alonso, if Breggie signed first. We certainly came closer to Breggie than Alonso, so it would have been a massive budge to get Pete. This begs a question, did we offer Suarez more, the minute Breggie signed with the Cubs?