moonslav59

Brandon Lowe has an extremely high value because of his 5 years of team control at about $5.5M per year and this for his 2019-2020 line: .270 31 88 in just 489 ABs Project to 162 games and it's 37 HRs and 104 RBI for a 2Bman! .876 OPS 2019-2020. He's just 26. 5 years of the prime of prime. Vaz has 2 years on the tail end of prime and has a .727 OPS the last 3 years. Ward may never make MLB, unless he gets his control issues fixed.

You are forgetting one major factor: Betts had one year left of team control at $28M. Lowe has this left on his deal: '21 $2.5M '22 $4M '23 $8.75M '24 $10.5M '25 $11.5M That's $37M for 5 years and a $4M luxury tax hit. That's less than what Vaz's is! Also, Vaz has 2 years of team control. Years of team control are extremely valuable, especially when the contracts are set at a very low cost- like Lowe's is.

He's not a decent game-caller. Leon and previous Sox catchers got more from the same pitchers as Vaz did. Who catches? We sign or trade for someone. The trades I suggested fill 2-3 of the slots we'd have had to spend big money on to fill well, so we'd have resources left over to get a catcher who actually gets the most out of our staff. Some of the deals I suggested on the trade site involve a 3rd team and bring us a surplus catcher from their roster. We need pitching, badly. We ain't signing Bauer. We ain't trading the world for Glasnow. I know catchers are hard to find, but Vaz is not the second best catcher in MLB. 1. He has more than 345 PAs in a season just once. 2. His career OPS is .701. It's .727 the last 3 seasons. That's good for a catcher, but not great. 3. He does have the third best catcher fWAR since 2018 at 5.1, but Grandal & Realmuto have more than twice that. There were 19 catchers with an fWAR between 3 and 5.1. He's no stand alone great catcher. 4. I could go back and show the evidence of how nearly every starting pitcher did better with Leon and other Sox catchers than with Vaz. Some by 1.00 to 2.00 better ERAs! That's a huge value worth way more than catcher offense.

You'll never get Lowe, then. Your suggested deals would be laughed at in fantasy baseball. They are miles and miles away from reality in MLB.

We can't just wish for Brandon Lowe, and poof, the Rays give us him and Glasnow for Vaz. The trade value site has these values: 73.5 Glasnow 71.1 B Lowe 21.0 Vaz To get Lowe, we'd have to give up, assuming the Rays agree, 26.4 Downs 22.2 Casas 21.0 Vaz 1.5 Taylor or 50.8 Verdugo 21.0 Vaz or 34.4 Devers 21.0 Vaz 12.1 Duran 3.7 Groome Let's be real.

The site also accepted... Vaz for Nick, Anderson, Kevin Kiermaier & Josh Fleming

This trade was accepted, too: Vaz & Chavis for Nick Anderson, Ryan Yarbrough & Kevin Kiermaier

Vaz is no Mookie, either. What you are suggesting TB give us back is almost more than what LA gave us for Betts.

Galsnow & LOwwww straight up for Vaz... LOL!

It's not a small return. We get a very good defensive CF'er who has a career OPS of about 10 lower than JBJ's. Ryan Yarbrough is 28 years old and has a career ERA of 3.94 with a 1.15 WHIP. With Sale out, those numbers make him close to our ace- not that I'd call him that. Pete Fairbanks would fill a much needed slot in our pen as a solid #2. He has a career K/9 of 12.7. Yes, he walks too many people, but the 7.8 H/9 is decent. (Maybe we could get Baz, instead of one of these pitchers, but he's far away from the bigs.) Vaz is good- no doubt, but his handling of the pitching staff is suspect, at best. His offense is erratic.

JD's value is -$22M. Nice try.

Very good one!

I didn't know Chrinos had TJ, but if healthy, he and Yarbrough would easily be in the Sox rotation, if this deal were done. You are vastly over-rating Vaz or under-rating Glasnow. (BTW, Lowe was just traded to the Rangers.) The Trade Value site has Galsnow at a value of 73 and Vaz at 21. We don't have 3 Vaz's to give for him. My guess is the Rays would say no to Vaz for Kiermaier, Yarbrough & Fairbanks.

Yes, I got it backwards. True, they still need a 2021 catcher.

Rays just traded their best catching prospect and have no catchers on their 40 man roster. I'm thinking Vaz may be headed their way. Vaz for Kiermaier & Chrinos or Yarbrough plus maybe a smaller piece. (I'd like to see Shane Baz as that third piece, as we could add Chatham or Chavis, if needed.) The Trade Values site accepts Vaz for Kiermaier, Chirnos & Yarbrough, but I seriously doubt we'd get 2 SP'ers back.

Done deal. DD just hired.

Shane Baz would be a nice get, but he's never pitched above A ball, so I would not count on him as being a candidate for the 5 slot in the rotation. He's 21 years old.

Sounds better than most!

No surprise- No Sox players drafted in rule 5 or rule 5 minors. The Sox did taker a couple players in the minor league draft, too: Triple-A Phase Round 1 1) Pirates: Shea Spitzbarth, RHP (Dodgers) 2) Rangers: Matthew Wivinis, RHP (Yankees) 3) Tigers: Yunior Perez, RHP (Cubs) 4) Red Sox: Tyreque Reed, 1B (Rangers) 5) Orioles: Rickey Ramirez, RHP (Twins) 6) D-backs: Tyler Gilbert, LHP (Dodgers) 7) Angels: Brendon Davis, SS (Rangers) 8) Mets: Andrew Ferguson, CF (Astros) 9) Mariners: Amador Arias, 2B (Rays) 10) Giants: Vince Fernandez, OF (Rockies) 11) Astros: Joe Record, RHP (Twins) 12) Marlins: Jake Fishman, LHP (Blue Jays) 13) Reds: Errol Robinson, SS (Dodgers) 14) Cardinals: Garrett Williams, LHP (Angels) 15) Blue Jays: Sebastian Espino, SS (Mets) 16) Yankees: Matt Krook, LHP (Rays) 17) Cubs: Nicholas Padilla, RHP (Rays) 18) White Sox: Martin Carrasco, RHP (Padres) 19) Guardians: Chris Roller, CF (Dodgers) 20) Braves: A.J. Puckett, RHP (White Sox) 21) A's: Zach Jackson, RHP (Blue Jays) 22) Twins: Jhonleider Salinas, RHP (Rays) 23) Padres: Yorman Rodriguez, C (Blue Jays) 24) Rays: Jordan Brink, RHP (Cardinals) 25) Dodgers: Ryan January, C (D-backs) Round 2 26) Pirates: Claudio Finol, SS (Reds) 27) Rangers: Yohel Pozo, C (Padres) 28) Red Sox: Kaleb Ort, RHP (Yankees) 29) Orioles: Christopher Hudgins, C (Royals) 30) Angels: Gustavo Campero, C (Yankees) 31) Mets: Justin Dillon, RHP (Blue Jays) 32) Giants: Ronnie Williams, RHP (Cardinals) 33) Astros: Seth Martinez, RHP (A's) 34) Marlins: Dylan Bice, RHP (Rangers) 35) Reds: Wilfred Astudillo, C (Mets) 36) Yankees: Reggie McClain, RHP (Phillies) 37) Cubs: Samuel Reyes, RHP (Pirates) 38) Braves: Jalen Miller, 2B (Giants) 39) A's: Brett Graves, RHP (Marlins) 40) Twins: Josh Mitchell, LHP (Royals) 41) Padres: Ben Ruta, LF (Yankees) 42) Rays: Ezequiel Zabaleta, RHP (Mets) 43) Dodgers: Roimer Bolivar, RHP (Rays) Round 3 44) Pirates: Jeffrey Passantino, RHP (Cubs) 45) Rangers: Justin Marsden, RHP (Rays) 46) Orioles: Ignacio Feliz, RHP (Padres) 47) Mets: Drew Jackson, 2B (Dodgers) 48) Giants: Mitchell Tolman, 2B (Mets) 49) Marlins: Marcus Chiu, 2B (Dodgers) 50) Reds: Chuckie Robinson, C (Astros) 51) Braves: Jacob Pearson, OF (Twins) Round 4 52) Mets: Jesus Reyes, RHP (Reds) 53) Reds: Yoel Yanqui, 1B (D-backs) Round 5 54) Mets: Jose Zorrilla, LHP (Reds) 55) Reds: Wes Robertson, RHP (Rangers) Round 6 56) Reds: Steven Leyton, SS (D-backs)

Rule 5, so far... First Round 1. Pittsburgh Pirates: Jose Soriano (Angels) 2. Texas Rangers: Brett de Geus (Dodgers) 3. Detroit Tigers: Akil Baddoo (Twins) 4. Boston Red Sox: Garrett Whitlock (Yankees) 5. Baltimore Orioles: Mac Sceroler (Reds) 6. Arizona Diamondbacks: Zach Pop (Royals) 7. Kansas City Royals: Pass 8. Colorado Rockies: Jordan Sheffield (Dodgers) 9. Los Angeles Angels: Jose Alberto Rivera (Astros) 10. New York Mets: Luis Oviedo (Guardians), traded to Pirates for cash considerations, tweets MLB.com’s Anthony DiComo 11. Washington Nationals: Pass 12. Seattle Mariners: Will Vest (Tigers) 13. Philadelphia Phillies: Kyle Holder (Yankees) 14. San Francisco Giants: Dedniel Nunez (Mets) 15. Houston Astros: Pass 16. Milwaukee Brewers: Pass 17. Miami Marlins: Paul Campbell (Rays) 18. Cincinnati Reds: Pass 19. St. Louis Cardinals: Pass 20. Toronto Blue Jays: No 40-man roster space 21. New York Yankees: Pass 22. Chicago Cubs: Gray Fenter (Orioles) 23. Chicago White Sox: Pass 24. Cleveland Guardians: Trevor Stephan (Yankees) 25. Atlanta Braves: Pass 26. Oakland Athletics: Ka’ai Tom (Guardians) 27. Minnesota Twins: Pass 28. San Diego Padres: No 40-man roster space 29. Tampa Bay Rays: Pass 30. Los Angeles Dodgers: Pass Second Round 5. Baltimore Orioles: Tyler Wells (Twins) 26. Oakland Athletics: Dany Jimenez (Blue Jays)

Rule 5 First Round 1. Pittsburgh Pirates: Jose Soriano (Angels) 2. Texas Rangers: Brett de Geus (Dodgers) 3. Detroit Tigers: Akil Baddoo (Twins) 4. Boston Red Sox: Garrett Whitlock (Yankees) 5. Baltimore Orioles: Mac Sceroler (Reds) 6. Arizona Diamondbacks: Zach Pop (Royals) 7. Kansas City Royals: Pass 8. Colorado Rockies: Jordan Sheffield (Dodgers) 9. Los Angeles Angels: Jose Alberto Rivera (Astros) 10. New York Mets: Luis Oviedo (Guardians), traded to Pirates for cash considerations, tweets MLB.com’s Anthony DiComo 11. Washington Nationals: Pass 12. Seattle Mariners: Will Vest (Tigers) 13. Philadelphia Phillies: Kyle Holder (Yankees) 14. San Francisco Giants: Dedniel Nunez (Mets) 15. Houston Astros: Pass 16. Milwaukee Brewers: Pass 17. Miami Marlins: Paul Campbell (Rays) 18. Cincinnati Reds: Pass 19. St. Louis Cardinals: Pass 20. Toronto Blue Jays: No 40-man roster space 21. New York Yankees: Pass 22. Chicago Cubs: Gray Fenter (Orioles) 23. Chicago White Sox: Pass 24. Cleveland Guardians: Trevor Stephan (Yankees) 25. Atlanta Braves: Pass 26. Oakland Athletics: Ka’ai Tom (Guardians) 27. Minnesota Twins: Pass 28. San Diego Padres: No 40-man roster space 29. Tampa Bay Rays: Pass 30. Los Angeles Dodgers: Pass Second Round 5. Baltimore Orioles: Tyler Wells (Twins) 26. Oakland Athletics: Dany Jimenez (Blue Jays)

If they have the better park, why did they wait to now, to swap?

There are no "big expenditures" but enough moderate ones to put us significantly over the lux tax line not just for 2021, but likely for 2022 as well. I do think Henry would be fine with going over in 2021, but maybe not over the $20M second line, unless we look like we could win a ring.

2 years at $8M? $9M? $6M? I might go as high as $5.5M x 2 with incentives.

The Rule 5 draft starts in minutes. I'm on the edge of my seat! (NOT!)