moonslav59

How dumb are the Rangers? Down 3-0 to the Rays with 2 outs in the bottom of the eighth and Calhoun gets thrown out stealing 2B.

It's the only deadline trade I remember by the Rays at the deadline, yes. There may be more. I don't think the David Wells trade in 2006 was major enough to be an example, but we were 10 games over .500 at the time of the trade, and I do remember some grumbling about throwing in the towel too early. That season was promising until losing 5 in a row to the Yanks in mid August, which was part of losing 12 of 14 shortly before the deadline. We ended up 10 over .500 and lost out by 9 games to the 95 win Tigers, but at the end of August, it was not a clear thing.

I kinda liked the idea of trying Arroyo leading off. I know Santana has speed, but Arroyo has been getting on base better than any of the non top 4 hitters on the team... Note Santana's ranking. .326 Arroyo .310 Plawecki .299 Renfroe .288 Vaz .287 Marwin .284 Kike .248 Dalbec .222 Santana

He was hired to build a winning team and probably to set up a system where it can be sustainable. If you look at what the Rays did after some of their "sell-offs" they actually improved in the short and long terms, and many of the very good players they dealt away had a lot of people scratching their heads, until the guys they traded fell off a cliff shortly afterwards. Look, I'm not saying Bloom will trade Barnes, or that he will follow the Rays example 100%. He had to do some of those moves for financial reasons. He does not have to do that here, but he did learn some valuable lessons from several of those trades that may carry over to his time, here. Another factor to think about is how we define "competitiveness." Is it having an outside shot at a WC slot? Is it having an inside shot at a WC slot? Is it having a good chance to win the division? Is it having a good chance at winning a ring? I know many of you believe in the playoff crapshoot doctrine, but I don't, and maybe Bloom & Co. don't either. If they think we have a 10% chance at winning it all, and a trade of Barnes might make it a 2 or 3% chance, but will greatly increase our chances, next year and/or for several years afterwards, maybe they consider it. If they think our chances are 20-30%, the choice gets much harder, but if you believe in the crapshoot doctrine, nobody ever has a20-25% or higher chance of winning a ring.

Sorry, my bad. The Kazmir deal was an example.

Over the whole season, the opps have a .517 OPS against Winckowski over 32 IP (2.25 ERA). One bad game has not hurt his numbers all that much.

He's had just a tiny sample size in Yankee Stadium (The Yanks are 0-4 off him with 2 BBs- Career)

True. He's only pitched once since May 23rd. (13 days)

The Rays have a long history of trading very good players when in contention- either over the winter or at the deadline. I'm not sure it matters all that much when the deal is made. When you trade a very good player for prospects, when you are supposed to be in contention, it's a strategy not many teams use. The Dodgers have made winter deals like the Rays, but I can't think of any deadline deals, so it does have a different set of issues. I grant that. I think the Sox traded David Wells, when some thought we still had a shot. The Rays have traded a few at the deadline. Here are some I remember: July 2019: In the thick of a playoff race, they traded Ryne Stanek and a prospect for Nick Anderson, who was basically a prospect and Trevor Richards (2nd year in MLB) July 2018: Chris Archer for Tyler Glasnow, Austin Meadows & Shane Baz. (Would you not want those 3 for Barnes?) The Rays had a nice 62-48 record at the time of the deal and were in the thick of a WC race. The ended up making the playoffs and finished closer to first in the ALE than they were at the time of the trade (7 GB to 7.5 GB). In 2009, the Rays were 70-58 on the Waiver wire deadline. They still had a decent chance at making the playoffs as a WC team. They traded Scott Kazmir for 3 PTBNLs and ended up missing the playoffs and just 6 games above .500. The 3 PTBNLs were Matthew Sweeney, Alex Torres & Sean Rodriguez. Speaking of Kazmir, they got him in a deadline trade for Victor Zambrano, but the Rays were not in contention that year. Some memorable Rays winter trades while viewed as serious contenders: Dec 2009: Jesse Chavez for Rafael Soriano Jan 2011: Matt Garza for Chris Archer, R Chirinos, Sam Fuld & Brandon Guyer Dec 2012: Jamie Shields & Wade Davis for Wil Myers, Jake Odorizzi & Mike Montgomery (they later traded Odorizzi for J Palacios) Dec 2014: Wil Myers & scraps for Jake Bauers, R Rivera, Burch Smith and others. Dec 2017: Longoria for Christian Arroyo & Denard Span I'm probably forgetting some other deals.

BTV has the following values assigned to the players involved in the trade: 3.3 Winckowski 2.4 Valdez 0.7 Gambrell 0.3 Cordero 0.1 de la Rosa 8.6 K Lee (to Mets) 10.8 Beni (includes cash paid off his contract)

Sorry, I just saw the news. Yes, looks like adding some promising pitching depth to the farm.

Cordero wasn't a prospect, and Winckowski looks like he may turn out to be more than just depth. Let's see what we get from KC.

Of course. It's the way you continually refresh your system, and once you get real good at it, and accumulate so many studs, you can afford to trade a Blake Snell and not miss a beat.

I know the standard answer, but thinking outside the box is what got the Rays where they are now.

The Rays traded their ace after a .667 winning season. They're in first place, now. We could be like the Rays, except spend 2 to 3 times what they spend, and spend it wisely. I'm not saying this is something we do every year, or that we should trade a young ace as he enters prime, assuming we ever have one, but being practical is not a bad strategy.

That's not a bad strategy. It then begs the question: why hold onto Barnes and get next to nothing, if you know you only have 2 more months of team control and are going to let him walk? In contention or not.

I get why. I was one of those doubters, too. One has to wonder, if this isn't just one of those outlier stretches a pitcher has in his career, and he will revert to his former self, at some point. He's had a very nice K rate for several years, but he is in Uehara territory, this year. OPS Against .399 ERA+ 13 WHIP 0.640 K/BB 8.80 Uehara in 2013: .466 OPS Against 30 ERA+ .565 WHIP 11.22 K/BB

Okay, I worded that wrongly. Between Ottavino and Barnes, yes many wanted Barnes, but nobody was happy with Barnes as our closer. Some didn't even think he was a good set up man, either.

Of course, if he's traded, it would be for a short term gain by whoever trades for him. We'd get something very good for 2 months of Barnes. We did pretty good in our returns for Workman/Hembree, Mazza/Springs, Moreland and other deadline deals in the past. Re-signing him may be very difficult after trading him, but it is not impossible, and there should be other closers on the market, too. It's weird how, two months ago, nobody wanted Barnes to be our closer. Now, he's "untouchable." LOL.

Totally agree. It may not just be about Santana, though. Santana may end up winning the 1B job, if he does well. Kike might end up being needed at 2B more than OF. Renfroe may prove he needs to be platooned, as originally thought when we signed him. Someone might get hurt. With the flexibility Kike, Santana and Marwin bring us, an injury at any position but catcher could open up a slot for Duran. If Duran is ready, and we are still in the race, after the Olympic games, he may get the call, if any of the scenarios I listed come true.

He had fire in his eyes, and his body language was clear.

The guy was a solid #2or #3 for 57 starts in 2018 and 2019, He was a decent #3-4 before that, despite his high pitch counts. The team went 45-12 in his starts from 2018-2019. I know wins are team numbers, but the guy must have done something right for that to happen. No #4 or 5 starter did that, and in fact almost no aces did that- maybe none. Then the team starts off 4-0 and 5-1 in his first 4 or 6 starts, this year, and after a 4-6 game bad stretch, he's hardly worth being called a 5th starter, anymore? Man, you guys are brutal. 49-12, then 1-5 and he's a bum? No doubt, the guy has sucked for his last 4 starts and 5 of is last 6, but they guy is coming off a serious heart condition. Maybe, he's toast. Maybe he'll never do well again. He deserves a longer look than 4 or 5 starts. If the guy had lost 2-3 mph off his fastball, maybe he should be on the IL as of yesterday. If he can't spin the ball like he used to, then the same thing. I'm sure all of that is being watched by the club. If he can't get back on track, real soon, they'll IL him, and give him a rest and a chance in rehab to show he can come back- or not.

X will likely opt out, unless the big FA SSs get less than him, this next off season. JD may opt-out or get the Sox to extend him. He'll want longer security than just 1 more year with the Sox. Barnes will likely get $19M+ x 3-4 years, assuming he continues. Barnes may be traded no matter where we stand at the deadline. Bloom is not shy about trading top talent as a top contender. I get how Boston is different than Tampa, but Bloom ended up winning almost everyone of those deals. Barnes might also be the type of guy that would re-sign with the Sox after being traded to the Padres at the deadline.

With the ghost, we'd have traded away the second 26, too.

I was surprised, too, but maybe the match-ups favored him over DHern or Whitlock. I'm not sure bringing in ex-Yankees, Ottavino or Whitlock, would have worked, but in hindsight, Cora was a genius, last night. Had Sawamura been lit up, we'd have a 100 posts roasting Cora alive.