Bellhorn04

Lots of varying thoughts on the best way to utilize this fine pitcher we stole from the Yankees!

I know, but Matt had a lot of meltdowns in the second half last year and the first half this year. It would be great if he's back on form.

I think it was Curt Flood. B-R shows Northrup hit a 2-run triple to center. That was the play. That was my introduction to the concept that a fielder can mess up and still not get charged with an error...

Plus if I recall correctly, Gibson was victimized by a bad play in the outfield that game.

Wow, you really squeezed a lot of insults into one post.

Like everyone else I was full of dread when Barnes came in last night, and he fooled everyone. And how about that 8 pitch 9th by Whitlock?

No pitcher is infallible. Bob Gibson was one of the greatest ever, obviously, and he was phenomenal in the 3 World Series he appeared in. And yet it sticks in my mind that in his last WS game, the 7th game in 1968, he took the loss, out-dueled by Mickey Lolich.

Few teams ever do. That's why I'm saying the only guys everyone agrees are aces are in the Hall of Fame, or on that path.

And the guy who signed Perez this year got fired LOL

We all have issues, Red. Otherwise we wouldn't be here.

It's hit or miss stuff even for a pitching expert like Bloom. For every Wacha there's a Richards. Anyway, it'd be nice to keep Wacha around somehow...

You said a mouthful!!!

Mookie went off last night. He probably added at least .5 WAR in one game LOL

I know your intentions were good here, Max.

Let's face it, it's all about "ace" being a cool word...

What strikes me as amusing here is that you spent 5 lines responding to a 2 line post that you called "over analyzing"...

That's what I'm saying. And in saying it I realize how silly it is. We used to get in arguments about whether Lester was an ace, or Beckett was an ace, etc. And I finally realized you can only be safe calling guys like Pedro or Verlander aces.

Sorry about those pesky facts.

The Renfroe trade all the way.

Here we agree.

Read the above, Nick, from the book you excerpted, and learn the truth.

Here's some more from the same book, about that same column by Shaughnessy and the aborted Larry Bigbie trade that led Theo to temporarily leave the team: "Either Lucchino or Steinberg, Epstein felt sure, had prompted the column. The two men were, after all, the heroes of the piece, and both had said lines almost identical to some Shaughnessy had used. Where else could Shaughnessy have gotten the incorrect notion-repeated in the column as fact, without any attribution-that Epstein had asked Lucchino to shoulder the blame for the Bigbie trade? It was actually Henry and Epstein who had decided to nix the deal; Lucchino had never been part of the conversation." "About a week earlier, several sources confirm that Steinberg had a conversation with Shaughnessy and another reporter in which he said many of the things that ended up in Shaughnessy's column." "Over the next several months, Shaughnessy repeatedly insisted that neither Lucchino nor his allies within the organization had urged him to write the October 30 column. But on November 1, Shaughnessy wrote that the version of the Bigbie trade he wrote as fact was 'the version held by Lucchino's camp (three sources)'. Wherever he got the information, it simply wasn't true. 'I vetoed the trade,' says Henry. 'It was me, after Theo and I talked about it. It was never Larry. He had nothing to do with it.'" So in essence, Lucchino lied, and Shaughnessy repeated the lie, and Henry went on record to call it a lie.

Yes, I just read that myself. Nothing but opinions from Shaughnessy. No quotes from anyone.

So that's two facts everyone knows and an opinion. I'm not doing research on your bogus claims, thanks.

Their record is worse this year than it was in 2019. That's a simple fact.