8/7 Red Sox at Royals

[Maxbialystock]

The shortage of starting pitching became a reality after Giolito went down, followed by Whitlock. The pickup , months later, of Paxton is a bandaid not a long term solution. I would run Criswell out there in Kutter's turns.

Breslow will still need to find 4 starters over the winter because he is losing Paxton and Pivetta, unless he wants them back. Clearly there is no one in Worcester ready to move up.

 

This topic has now existed through the last 2 years of Bloom and 1 of Breslow but no real fixes have been made.

 

The great DD brought in David Price with a huge contract, and he lasted 3 good seasons and went sour in 2019 and was never the same again. But the Sox kept paying him (playing for the Dodgers) in 2020, 2021, and 2022. He brought in Chris Sale and then signed him long term, and Chris lasted two good seasons, 2017 and 2018--and the Sox have been paying him, 2019-2024 inclusive.

 

My point is that Sox CBO's have not done a good job of signing excellent starters who didn't go south on them. Pedro was terrific, 1998-2004. Schilling were pretty good in 2004, but not in 2005--but better in 2006 and so-so in 2007. Beckett was up and down all 7 years (but was excellent in 2007). Lackey had one good season, 2013, out of 5.

 

Thus, I have to say, one more time, dumping Sale before this season and signing Giolito is pretty close to par for Sox CBO's.

[Maxbialystock]

Sorry if my last, lengthy post stopped the thread. Or maybe it's just as well.

 

2/3 in KC is fine with me even if not as good as 3/3. As I said earlier, Crawford was fantastic his last 3 starts before the ASG: 20 IP, 1 ER. Now he's in a deep hole, averaging 4.2 IP and 5.5 ER in 4 starts. Something's gotta change.

Edited August 8, 2024 by Maxbialystock

[moonslav59]

The great DD brought in David Price with a huge contract, and he lasted 3 good seasons and went sour in 2019 and was never the same again. But the Sox kept paying him (playing for the Dodgers) in 2020, 2021, and 2022. He brought in Chris Sale and then signed him long term, and Chris lasted two good seasons, 2017 and 2018--and the Sox have been paying him, 2019-2024 inclusive.

 

My point is that Sox CBO's have not done a good job of signing excellent starters who didn't go south on them. Pedro was terrific, 1998-2004. Schilling were pretty good in 2004, but not in 2005--but better in 2006 and so-so in 2007. Beckett was up and down all 7 years (but was excellent in 2007). Lackey had one good season, 2013, out of 5.

 

Thus, I have to say, one more time, dumping Sale before this season and signing Giolito is pretty close to par for Sox CBO's.

 

I would debate the "3 good seasons" comment, but signing Price was needed at the time and did help bring us a win and 3 division championships.

 

Price had an ERA+ of 127 in the previous 5 seasons before the signing and 118 with BOS (ages 30-32.) That was very helpful but in one of those "3 years" he only started 11 games.

 

Lackey did so-so year one (99 ERA+) and was at 117 in 2013 (ring year.) He was at 111 in 2014, when we traded him- not his fault. He started 28 or more games, every year with us, but 2012. He was still worth the money, which was much less than Price's.

 

Either way, both signings pale against the trades for Sale, Beckett, Schilling and Pedro. Even the Nate and Peavy signings look better.

[moonslav59]

Crappy loss, after it looked pretty bright for a while- mid game.

[Maxbialystock]

Crappy loss, after it looked pretty bright for a while- mid game.

 

Terrific 3 wins, however. Back to Boston.

[vegasbob]

The team won the series, on the road, against the team ahead of them. Probably the best you could expect. Win every series from here on out and the results will speak for themselves.

 

Big question, can the Sox win 2 series at Fenway vs Astros and Rangers ? Only the bullpen knows. Starting pitching needs 3 good games of the 6. Oh , and the hitters have to carry the load with 6-8 runs per game.

[moonslav59]

The team won the series, on the road, against the team ahead of them. Probably the best you could expect. Win every series from here on out and the results will speak for themselves.

 

Big question, can the Sox win 2 series at Fenway vs Astros and Rangers ? Only the bullpen knows. Starting pitching needs 3 good games of the 6. Oh , and the hitters have to carry the load with 6-8 runs per game.

 

These two teams are not push overs, but I’m glad the Astros have cooled off since going something like 50-33, not too long ago.

 

One game at a time

[notin]

Crappy loss, after it looked pretty bright for a while- mid game.

 

But if I told you Sunday that Boston would take 2 of 3 from KC, you’d probably have accepted it…

[mvp 78]

But if I told you Sunday that Boston would take 2 of 3 from KC, you’d probably have accepted it…

 

Crawford was starting. I expected the Sox to lose the finale. I don't know what people are expecting...

[Bellhorn04]

But if I told you Sunday that Boston would take 2 of 3 from KC, you’d probably have accepted it…

 

Taking 2 of 3 in both Texas and KC is as good as you could ask for. (And those have traditionally been tough venues for Sox teams.)

 

Can't complain about the way the team is playing.

 

It's just the rotation that looks like a potentially big problem...

[Maxbialystock]

The team won the series, on the road, against the team ahead of them. Probably the best you could expect. Win every series from here on out and the results will speak for themselves.

 

Big question, can the Sox win 2 series at Fenway vs Astros and Rangers ? Only the bullpen knows. Starting pitching needs 3 good games of the 6. Oh , and the hitters have to carry the load with 6-8 runs per game.

 

Sox have been better on the road all season long: 34-24 vs 27-28. What's neat is that, following a horrible start to the post-ASG season when the Sox went 2-7 against the Dodgers, Rockies, and Yankees, they have now gone 6-3 while winning series vs the Mariners, Rangers, and Royals.

 

And, just as you say, the pitching--rotation and bullpen--has nosedived since the ASG and is now ranked 16th in MLB in team ERA. Plus you have to tack on a bunch of unearned runs, which I believe the Sox have more of than anyone else. For maybe the first two months the Sox team ERA was 1st in MLB.

 

On the other hand--as you also point out--the no-names in the lineup (except Devers and Duran, both on the AL All-Star team) have blossomed to the degree that the Sox are 4th in MLB in runs scored and tied for 1st in team OPS.

 

We are already at the point where every game seems to count more than all the games before. We are in August and moonslav keeps reminding us how our near competitors did that day/night. And I keep reminding everyone that the AL East still has easily the best W-L record of the 6 MLB divisions. That gives the Twins and the Royals an edge on us.

 

FWIW, these are the WAR's and ERA's of the 13 pitchers on the current roster:

 

Houck, 2.6 and 3.09;

Crawford, 1.6 and 4.11;

Kelly, 1.4 and 2.49;

Jansen, 1.3 and 2.95;

Pivetta, 1.2 and 4.44;

Booser, 1.0 and 2.77;

Bernardino, 1.0 and 3.03

Winckowski, 0.6 and 3.44

Martin, 0.4 and 3.29

Bello, 0.1 and 5.16

Criswell, 0.0 and 4.02

Garcia, 0.0 and 6.00

Paxton, -0.1 and 4.35.

 

What's misleading about the above is that Houck and Crawford have both been terrible since the ASG: Houck, 3 starts, 17 IP, 13 ER; Crawford, 3 starts, 13.2 IP, 16 ER.

 

Pivetta was awful his first post-ASG game, 2.2 IP and 7 ER, but decent in his next two: 6.2 IP and 3 ER; 4.2 IP and 2 ER.

 

Bello has been decent since the ASG: 5 IP, 3 ER; 6.1 IP, 2 ER; 4.2 IP, 3 ER.

 

So has Paxton: 4.1 IP, 3 ER; 6.0 IP, 2 ER.

 

Winck and Criswell have stayed in the bullpen since the ASG.

[notin]

Sox have been better on the road all season long: 34-24 vs 27-28. What's neat is that, following a horrible start to the post-ASG season when the Sox went 2-7 against the Dodgers, Rockies, and Yankees, they have now gone 6-3 while winning series vs the Mariners, Rangers, and Royals.

 

And, just as you say, the pitching--rotation and bullpen--has nosedived since the ASG and is now ranked 16th in MLB in team ERA. Plus you have to tack on a bunch of unearned runs, which I believe the Sox have more of than anyone else. For maybe the first two months the Sox team ERA was 1st in MLB.

 

On the other hand--as you also point out--the no-names in the lineup (except Devers and Duran, both on the AL All-Star team) have blossomed to the degree that the Sox are 4th in MLB in runs scored and tied for 1st in team OPS.

 

We are already at the point where every game seems to count more than all the games before. We are in August and moonslav keeps reminding us how our near competitors did that day/night. And I keep reminding everyone that the AL East still has easily the best W-L record of the 6 MLB divisions. That gives the Twins and the Royals an edge on us.

 

FWIW, these are the WAR's and ERA's of the 13 pitchers on the current roster:

 

Houck, 2.6 and 3.09;

Crawford, 1.6 and 4.11;

Kelly, 1.4 and 2.49;

Jansen, 1.3 and 2.95;

Pivetta, 1.2 and 4.44;

Booser, 1.0 and 2.77;

Bernardino, 1.0 and 3.03

Winckowski, 0.6 and 3.44

Martin, 0.4 and 3.29

Bello, 0.1 and 5.16

Criswell, 0.0 and 4.02

Garcia, 0.0 and 6.00

Paxton, -0.1 and 4.35.

 

What's misleading about the above is that Houck and Crawford have both been terrible since the ASG: Houck, 3 starts, 17 IP, 13 ER; Crawford, 3 starts, 13.2 IP, 16 ER.

 

Pivetta was awful his first post-ASG game, 2.2 IP and 7 ER, but decent in his next two: 6.2 IP and 3 ER; 4.2 IP and 2 ER.

 

Bello has been decent since the ASG: 5 IP, 3 ER; 6.1 IP, 2 ER; 4.2 IP, 3 ER.

 

So has Paxton: 4.1 IP, 3 ER; 6.0 IP, 2 ER.

 

Winck and Criswell have stayed in the bullpen since the ASG.

 

Didn’t Pivetta give the Sox 6 IP 0 ER in LA in his first post ASG start? He got rocked in Colorado in his next one, but apparently he has a history of getting rocked in that stadium…

[Bellhorn04]

Didn’t Pivetta give the Sox 6 IP 0 ER in LA in his first post ASG start? He got rocked in Colorado in his next one, but apparently he has a history of getting rocked in that stadium…

 

Yes. Max Magoo'd us.

[Bellhorn04]

The great DD brought in David Price with a huge contract, and he lasted 3 good seasons and went sour in 2019 and was never the same again. But the Sox kept paying him (playing for the Dodgers) in 2020, 2021, and 2022.

 

You missed this piece of wonderful news about 2020: Price decided not to play that year and was not paid a nickel by either the Sox or the Dodgers.

[notin]

Yes. Max Magoo'd us.

 

He also forgot Criswell did give us one post-ASG start, and it was a gem. 7IP 0ER in Colorado…

[notin]

You missed this piece of wonderful news about 2020: Price decided not to play that year and was not paid a nickel by either the Sox or the Dodgers.

 

I can’t agree that Price “lasted 3 good seasons” when he only pitched 74 innings in 2017 after his debilitating Fortnite injury…

[mvp 78]

I can’t agree that Price “lasted 3 good seasons” when he only pitched 74 innings in 2017 after his debilitating Fortnite injury…

 

It was quite the injury since his elbow was really unique and could heal itself. A "pretty neat, bionic elbow" some might say!

[notin]

It was quite the injury since his elbow was really unique and could heal itself. A "pretty neat, bionic elbow" some might say!

 

The Sox should have stayed with the bionics and signed Steve Austin, and saved $211 mill in the process…

[Bellhorn04]

He also forgot Criswell did give us one post-ASG start, and it was a gem. 7IP 0ER in Colorado…

 

Max Multi Magoo'd us!

[moonslav59]

But if I told you Sunday that Boston would take 2 of 3 from KC, you’d probably have accepted it…

 

In a heart beat. I'm not upset. It takes much more than one game to do that.

 

I was just commenting on how I felt really good about winning, last night, until the 5 bomb dropped on us.

[Bellhorn04]

In a heart beat. I'm not upset. It takes much more than one game to do that.

 

I was just commenting on how I felt really good about winning, last night, until the 5 bomb dropped on us.

 

Yep, you and me and every other Sox fan.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

A good way to describe this SOX team would be the following. The opposing RH pitcher walks very slowly to the mound. The opposing LH pitcher walks with a bit more quickness to the mound. The opposing hitters run to the batter's box.

[Maxbialystock]

Didn’t Pivetta give the Sox 6 IP 0 ER in LA in his first post ASG start? He got rocked in Colorado in his next one, but apparently he has a history of getting rocked in that stadium…

 

Those 6 IP and 0 ER do not count because I overlooked them.

[Maxbialystock]

You missed this piece of wonderful news about 2020: Price decided not to play that year and was not paid a nickel by either the Sox or the Dodgers.

 

He was right. 2020 was a nonseason. But thanks for the info.

[Oscars]

Rafaela getting smarter in the box with his swing decisions