Craig Breslow hired as Head Of Baseball Operations

[mvp 78]

Just like someone named MVP.

 

You can't "just stop" any more than Red can

 

You have over and over admitted YOURSELF that you need to have the last word. I don't know why it's ok for you to talk down everyone else as you post over and over and over again.

[moonslav59]

So, back to baseball. If Breslow is truly planning on..." Houck and Whitlock will still be stretched out, but they could be pivoted back to the bullpen later...," does that mean Pivetta is in the pen?

 

If not, we'd have Bello, Sale, Houck, Whitlock and Pivetta in the rotation and no new SP'er.

 

Or, we have just one new SP'er and Pivetta joins Crawford as one of just 2 long men in the pen, unless Sale of someone else is not starting.

 

I'm not sure how it all works out, if we add 1-2 solid SP'ers. Is this talk just bluster? If yes, what purpose does it serve?

[mvp 78]

So, back to baseball. If Breslow is truly planning on..." Houck and Whitlock will still be stretched out, but they could be pivoted back to the bullpen later...," does that mean Pivetta is in the pen?

 

If not, we'd have Bello, Sale, Houck, Whitlock and Pivetta in the rotation and no new SP'er.

 

Or, we have just one new SP'er and Pivetta joins Crawford as one of just 2 long men in the pen, unless Sale of someone else is not starting.

 

I'm not sure how it all works out, if we add 1-2 solid SP'ers. Is this talk just bluster? If yes, what purpose does it serve?

 

If we take Breslow at his word, it's just to get Houck and Whitlock stretched out, nothing more. They are prepared to start if the rotations needs them to rather than play catch up in March. That doesn't mean Pivetta is sent to the pen. I believe Pivetta will be certainly stretched out this offseason.

[moonslav59]

You have over and over admitted YOURSELF that you need to have the last word. I don't know why it's ok for you to talk down everyone else as you post over and over and over again.

 

Yes, I admit it. You and Red don't. You both do the same thing.

 

Your last post about me followed three in a row by Red not even related to the debate at hand, except maybe the third one a little bit as a rehash. Just blatant "talk downs," or whatever you call it.

 

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

What Breslow said again:

 

So I’m not sure that decision gets made in spring training. My hope is they come in built up, they are viable rotation options and the team needs and how we best kind of put the winning team on the field dictates ultimately (their roles).

[moonslav59]

If we take Breslow at his word, it's just to get Houck and Whitlock stretched out, nothing more. They are prepared to start if the rotations needs them to rather than play catch up in March. That doesn't mean Pivetta is sent to the pen. I believe Pivetta will be certainly stretched out this offseason.

 

I hope this is all it is.

 

The paraphrase in MLBTR seems a bit more scary than the quote Bell just gave.

 

Houck and Whitlock will still be stretched out, per Alex Speier of the Boston Globe, but they could be pivoted back to the bullpen later.

[Bellhorn04]

I hope this is all it is.

 

The paraphrase in MLBTR seems a bit more scary than the quote Bell just gave.

 

Houck and Whitlock will still be stretched out, per Alex Speier of the Boston Globe, but they could be pivoted back to the bullpen later.

 

Let's ignore the paraphrase.

[mvp 78]

What Breslow said again:

 

So I’m not sure that decision gets made in spring training. My hope is they come in built up, they are viable rotation options and the team needs and how we best kind of put the winning team on the field dictates ultimately (their roles).

 

It's "pull in case of emergency" in a perfect world. I would rather just send Whitlock straight to the pen though. Breslow needs to see that for himself.

[moonslav59]

I can see how my statement about being "almost ready to start a fire Brez thread" seems brash.

 

My frustration of the lack of addressing the rotation for so long is getting the better of me. There have been more statements made about the rotation being the focus of this winter, so I should not have let one story get me to go to that extreme.

 

I support Brez, just as I did Dan D, Theo, Ben, DD and Bloom. He seems like a real smart guy, who knows pitching very well.

 

I'm trying to temper my optimism, perhaps due to all the letdowns, when talking rotation building. I went too far on the "fire Brez thread" threat.

[moonslav59]

It's "pull in case of emergency" in a perfect world. I would rather just send Whitlock straight to the pen though. Breslow needs to see that for himself.

 

Houck has shown he can go 18 batters. That's more than many starters.

 

Whitlock should not be "stretched out," IMO. I'd stretch out Crawford before him.

 

[moonslav59]

Let's ignore the paraphrase.

 

Done.

[Bellhorn04]

Houck has shown he can go 18 batters. That's more than many starters.

 

Whitlock should not be "stretched out," IMO. I'd stretch out Crawford before him.

 

 

Crawford IS stretched, I would say.

[moonslav59]

Crawford IS stretched, I would say.

 

But no mention of him starting off "stretched out."

 

BTW, Houck started in every game he played in, last year, including the last 8 to end the season. Isn't he already "stretched," too?

 

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

But no mention of him starting off "stretched out."

 

BTW, Houck started in every game he played in, last year, including the last 8 to end the season. Isn't he already "stretched," too?

 

 

 

 

The Red Sox still view Tanner Houck and Garrett Whitlock as starters, but also understand the duo could help out of the bullpen, similar to Josh Winckowski’s role last season.

 

Breslow told reporters in Arizona that he plans on building Houck and Whitlock as starters this offseason.

 

“I’m thinking giving them every chance to get built out as starting pitchers makes a ton of sense,” Breslow said to reporters at the GM Meetings. “I think as we start to put into place the pitching infrastructure that we’re working hard to put in place, there will be opportunities to maybe tweak around the margins: pitch usage, pitch shapes, attack plans that can maybe get more mileage out of those guys. I also think just having them healthy and having healthy offseasons and anticipating healthy seasons gives us a better look at what they are capable of doing. So I’m not sure that decision gets made in spring training. My hope is they come in built up, they are viable rotation options and the team needs and how we best kind of put the winning team on the field dictates ultimately (their roles).”

 

Seems reporters only asked about Houck and Whitlock.

 

Crawford did well as a starter, Houck didn't do as well and seems like an obvious candidate to move to the pen, for the reasons often discussed here.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Bellhorn04

[mvp 78]

Houck has shown he can go 18 batters. That's more than many starters.

 

 

I disagree. Out of 118 qualifying starters (20 GS), Houck was 104th at 5.0 IP/GS. It is marginally worse than Sale's 5.1 (100th) and better than Crawford's 4.7 (114th). If you include non-qualified starters, Houck goes down to 154th.

 

The average starter (Singer) goes 5.5 IP/GS. Bello led the team at 5.6 IP/GS and was 52nd. Whitlock averaged 5.2.

[moonslav59]

I disagree. Out of 118 qualifying starters (20 GS), Houck was 104th at 5.0 IP/GS. It is marginally worse than Sale's 5.1 (100th) and better than Crawford's 4.7 (114th). If you include non-qualified starters, Houck goes down to 154th.

 

The average starter (Singer) goes 5.5 IP/GS. Bello led the team at 5.6 IP/GS and was 52nd. Whitlock averaged 5.2.

 

Many does not mean most.

 

The guy is awesome 1 through 18, then falls off a cliff. My emphasis was meant to be more about the quality of those 18 batters than doing it more often than most going 18 or beyond 18 batters.

 

IMO, he should be yanked after 18, unless maybe he has a no hitter going.

 

His numbers scream for him to be a 9-18 batter pitcher.

 

Career:

.575 first 9 batters faced

.709 second 9

.957 third 9

 

That can still be a decent SP'er, if the others in the rotation are eating innings, and your pen is deep and good, especially with a few long RP'ers available. Sometimes that 19th batter comes up in the 4th or early 5th inning

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

Something was obviously messed up with Houck and Whitlock in 2023. Was it injury, rehabbing from injury, or are they just not as good as they looked earlier in their careers?

 

Many blame moving Whitlock to the rotation as the reason for his sharp decline. I'm not certain that was the issue, but it does make sense.

 

Here are some numbers for the 4 pitchers who seem to be better as RP'er than SP'ers. Note the PAs beyond 50 pitches and 18 batters as compared to those before. With some pitchers the amount over is way more than others. Some have said this is true for almost all pitchers, and I don't disagree, but do most pitchers have such wide disparities?

 

Career breakdown by Pitches in games SP & RP combined.

PAs/OPS 1-25 pitches

PAs/OPS 26-50

PAs/OPS 51-75

PAs/OPS 76-100

 

Houck

407/.519

310/.656

245/.844

91/.836

 

Whitlock

549/.685

205/.600

112/.823

44/.969

 

Crawford

307/.671

271/.742

221/.747

75/.845

 

Pivetta

1072/.809

1033/.685

967/.778

654/.811

(60 PAs over 100 at .685)

 

By batters faced 1st, 2nd and 3rd time.... AS SP ONLY!

1-9 PAs/OPS

10-18/OPS

19-27/OPS

28+/OPS

 

Houck

368/.575

351/.709

115/.957

1 PA/.000

 

Whitlock

165/.760

151/.692

60/ 1.122

1PA/.000

 

Crawford

324/.656

302/.770

92/1.069

n/a and n/a

 

Pivetta

1365/.756

1325/.741

702/.854

22/1.093

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

Something was obviously messed up with Houck and Whitlock in 2023. Was it injury, rehabbing from injury, or are they just not as good as they looked earlier in their careers?

 

They miss Vazquez.

[mvp 78]

On MLB Network:

 

Craig Breslow: “There’s a need for a bona fide starter or two.”

 

Oh, it's two!

[moonslav59]

On MLB Network:

 

Craig Breslow: “There’s a need for a bona fide starter or two.”

 

Oh, it's two!

 

He also said in another interview, he did not want to put a number on it.

[moonslav59]

On MLB Network:

 

Craig Breslow: “There’s a need for a bona fide starter or two.”

 

Oh, it's two!

 

I’d like to an answer about 3 being possible

[Bellhorn04]

I’d like to an answer about 3 being possible

 

Forget 3, man, pray for 2.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

On MLB Network:

 

Craig Breslow: “There’s a need for a bona fide starter or two.”

 

Oh, it's two!

 

So... what's bonafide? MLB average number of starts in 2023 was 20, which includes Sale, Maeda, Carrasco, Blackburn, Cabrera and Martin Perez. Jordan Lyles started 31, had a 6.28 ERA and lost 17. Lance Lynn started 32 and gave up 44 home runs. Giolito served up 41 HRs, lost 15, and started 33 (only Mikolas and Gallen started more).

 

Those are all bonafide, real, genuine starters... Breslow didn't say there's a need for a pair of aces (what -- he didn't have time yet to check this forum?).

 

Would anybody settle for the old high-low seven-card game where the best and worst hands split the pot?

[moonslav59]

Forget 3, man, pray for 2.

 

Oh, hell yes!

 

I AM!

 

(Still hoping for 3, even if the 3rd one is someone like Seth Lugo or Clevinger.

[Bellhorn04]

So... what's bonafide? MLB average number of starts in 2023 was 20, which includes Sale, Maeda, Carrasco, Blackburn, Cabrera and Martin Perez. Jordan Lyles started 31, had a 6.28 ERA and lost 17. Lance Lynn started 32 and gave up 44 home runs. Giolito served up 41 HRs, lost 15, and started 33 (only Mikolas and Gallen started more).

 

Those are all bonafide, real, genuine starters... Breslow didn't say there's a need for a pair of aces (what -- he didn't have time yet to check this forum?).

 

Would anybody settle for the old high-low seven-card game where the best and worst hands split the pot?

 

7-card poker does provide some good analogies to a pitching rotation.

[Bellhorn04]

Oh, hell yes!

 

I AM!

 

(Still hoping for 3, even if the 3rd one is someone like Seth Lugo or Clevinger.

 

You're looking to go 2023 Texas Rangers.

 

deGrom

Eovaldi

Heaney

 

Scherzer

Montgomery

 

And the 2 big stars in that 5 did virtually nothing!

[moonslav59]

You're looking to go 2023 Texas Rangers.

 

deGrom

Eovaldi

Heaney

 

Scherzer

Montgomery

 

And the 2 big stars in that 5 did virtually nothing!

 

To me, the rotation is what gives a team the best shot. Our rotations have been crappy since 2018.

 

Time IS up!

[sk7326]

To me, the rotation is what gives a team the best shot. Our rotations have been crappy since 2018.

 

Time IS up!

 

Heck, I'd even settle for 2021 rotation where the starters were solid and the mid-back of the rotation could soak up innings.

[moonslav59]

Heck, I'd even settle for 2021 rotation where the starters were solid and the mid-back of the rotation could soak up innings.

 

4 of those 5 starters had ERAs over 4.50.

 

Richards and Perez were banished to the pen.

[moonslav59]

Our rotation numbers...

 

2023

4.68 ERA/ .766 OPS Against

 

2022

4.49/.763

 

2021

4.49/.763 (not a typo- exact same as 2021)

 

2020

5.34/.861

 

2019

4.95/.781 (worse than any year after 2020.)

 

2018

3.77/.697