5/30 vs Reds

[Maxbialystock]

You continually assume how a team is doing in the first few innings strongly projects what they will do to finish the game.

 

It's not like Cincy has a great pen, even if they used better ones right after Lively was pulled.

 

This team has often looked bad to start a game, only to explode later on. It's one thing this team is known for.

 

You are right, of course. I'm extrapolating. Shame on me.

 

On the other hand, it sure looks as though Cora was doing the same dumb thing. In fact, after the game, he said the big problem for him was that his starter only went 4 innings. So clearly he was reluctant to send out Winck or Crawford when the Sox were not only behind, but being shut out by Lively, who pitched 5.2 scoreless innings.

 

About that great come from behind Sox lineup. I'm looking for it on the Sox schedule--and, sure enough, there it is, during the 8 game winning streak in April-May.

 

Since then (May 6), not so much. In fact, an offense that has struggled recently to score runs. Like 4 runs in 4 games against the Padres and Angels (but not having to hit against Ohtani).

 

True, since then, the Sox did beat up Mr. Pfaadt, he of the 8.37 ERA in May. So we have that going for us. But then just 2 runs (a win) vs. the DBacks and 2 again (a loss)--before last night. So, while I would love to believe the big bats are back, I also know that all 8 runs last night were scored against lousy relievers.

[Old Red]

You are right, of course. I'm extrapolating. Shame on me.

 

On the other hand, it sure looks as though Cora was doing the same dumb thing. In fact, after the game, he said the big problem for him was that his starter only went 4 innings. So clearly he was reluctant to send out Winck or Crawford when the Sox were not only behind, but being shut out by Lively, who pitched 5.2 scoreless innings.

 

About that great come from behind Sox lineup. I'm looking for it on the Sox schedule--and, sure enough, there it is, during the 8 game winning streak in April-May.

 

Since then (May 6), not so much. In fact, an offense that has struggled recently to score runs. Like 4 runs in 4 games against the Padres and Angels (but not having to hit against Ohtani).

True, since then, the Sox did beat up Mr. Pfaadt, he of the 8.37 ERA in May. So we have that going for us. But then just 2 runs (a win) vs. the DBacks and 2 again (a loss)--before last night. So, while I would love to believe the big bats are back, I also know that all 8 runs last night were scored against lousy relievers.

Oh how that fame is fleeting for that No Name offense.

[moonslav59]

15 of our 28 wins are come from behind wins.

 

We've also has a few games, where we came from behind, then lost, later.

 

It's a big part of this team's M.O., in my opinion.,

 

We have 5 wins, when trailing in the 5th.

 

We have 4 wins when trailing in the 8th and several near misses, like last night.

[Dipre]

15 of our 28 wins are come from behind wins.

 

We've also has a few games, where we came from behind, then lost, later.

 

It's a big part of this team's M.O., in my opinion.,

 

We have 5 wins, when trailing in the 5th.

 

We have 4 wins when trailing in the 8th and several near misses, like last night.

 

Not an issue of team M.O., it's an issue of terrible SP.

[Maxbialystock]

Oh how that fame is fleeting for that No Name offense.

 

Nicely said. Gotta hand it to you. Plus the Sox are still 4th in MLB in runs scored (with fewer games played, yet). So, forgetful me.

 

And yet. The Sox have struggled lately to score runs.

 

But moonslav's point is, what do you call 8 runs, chump change? Maybe the no name offense is ready to hit again. I sure hope so.

 

Tonight we go against righty Luke Weaver, ERA 4.44 in May and 6.1 IP and 0 runs in his last start, against the Cardinals.

[Bellhorn04]

IMO, you can only win the game you are currently playing , not tomorrow's or next week's. To me, Cora should have recognized that Rodriguez was having a bad night after 3 walks and a hit, prior to the Grand Slam. Maybe Cora was thinking it was 50-50 between a GIDP or just another walk then he makes a move to Sheriff . But maybe he should have thought that after 35 pitches with only 16 strikes, Rodriguez would try to push a strike over the plate and get bombed , which is what happened.

 

A statistically rare outcome but certainly possible, and those 4 runs, along with the ball Duran couldn't pull down in CF , resulting in a triple off Sheriff and a sac fly for the 9th run sunk the Sox 8 run outburst against the Reds lesser BP throwers.

 

So did Cora defer pulling Joely because he considered the game lost at 4-0 , due to dead bats in the 6th, or was he playing today's game vs the Reds saving ammo in the BP, OR was he actually preplaying the 4 game series with TB who waxed his team 4 straight a month and a half ago.

 

You framed it pretty well. A lot of stuff goes into these decisions.

 

I think Cora is a guy who's always in the game and taking these things into account, which is about all you can ask. But obviously some of his decisions will still end up looking bad.

[Maxbialystock]

15 of our 28 wins are come from behind wins.

 

We've also has a few games, where we came from behind, then lost, later.

 

It's a big part of this team's M.O., in my opinion.,

 

We have 5 wins, when trailing in the 5th.

 

We have 4 wins when trailing in the 8th and several near misses, like last night.

 

Good stuff, as always.

 

But I thought this discussion was related to the fateful decision to send out Rodriguez to pitch the 7th last night. That decision was not my decision, nor yours.

 

And all I'm saying is that apparently Cora wasn't so sure about the Sox ability to overcome that 3-0 lead.

[Maxbialystock]

Not an issue of team M.O., it's an issue of terrible SP.

 

Did you just say terrible starting pitching? Bello only went 4 innings, true, but he also only gave up 1 run. The bullpen, aided by Kike's errant throws, gave up the other 9 runs.

[mvp 78]

Did you just say terrible starting pitching? Bello only went 4 innings, true, but he also only gave up 1 run. The bullpen, aided by Kike's errant throws, gave up the other 9 runs.

 

Bello may have only given up 1 run, but he was walking quite the tightrope. It was far from a clean 4 innings. He had a monstrous pitch count early on. It's his fault they needed 5 innings of bullpen help.

[Maxbialystock]

You framed it pretty well. A lot of stuff goes into these decisions.

 

I think Cora is a guy who's always in the game and taking these things into account, which is about all you can ask. But obviously some of his decisions will still end up looking bad.

 

I like Cora, but don't hesitate to criticize.

 

In this case, I think we need to remember that the Reds manager had other relief pitchers besides the two who gave up the 8 runs. He used them because he had an 8-0 lead going into the bottom of the 7th and a 9-3 lead going into the bottom of the 9th.

[Dipre]

Did you just say terrible starting pitching? Bello only went 4 innings, true, but he also only gave up 1 run. The bullpen, aided by Kike's errant throws, gave up the other 9 runs.

 

I mean in general. Sox starters have the 25th worst ERA, and they're 25th in IP. They've been bad as a unit. But I must also mention that they're 9th in xFIP, which vibes with the general consensus that bad defense is an important component of their ineffectiveness as a unit.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Dipre

[Maxbialystock]

I mean in general. Sox has the 25th worst ERA, and they're 25th in IP. They've been bad as a unit. But I must also mention that they're 9th in xFIP, which vibes with the general consensus that bad defense is an important component of their ineffectiveness as a unit.

 

I agree.