Red Sox Starting Rotation 2023

[redsoxrules]

Devers at first? Jesus, that 300M deal will look a lot worse if that happens

[moonslav59]

Devers at first? Jesus, that 300M deal will look a lot worse if that happens

 

How is that worse than a crappy defensive 3Bman and current crappy defensive 1Bman, too?

 

He's not getting paid for his D.

 

Most of his errors are throwing, so he could be a plus on D at 1B.

[notin]

Devers at first? Jesus, that 300M deal will look a lot worse if that happens

 

Right. Much better to pay him the same money to be the worst defensive 3b in the league…

[notin]

If they are going to move someone and want to have Devers play 1B long term, it makes more sense to package Casas in a deal for a pitcher. He has a much higher trade value.

 

BTV actually gives Duran and Casas nearly identical trade values. Duran’s surplus value is $45.7mill while Vasas’ is $47.5mill.

 

I do expect Duran’s to drop more next time they run numbers…

[moonslav59]

BTV actually gives Duran and Casas nearly identical trade values. Duran’s surplus value is $45.7mill while Vasas’ is $47.5mill.

 

I do expect Duran’s to drop more next time they run numbers…

 

Whitlock's value already fell to 4.8, while Houck's remains at 27.5.

 

I think Yoshida started out in the negative value column, but now he is at 17.8.

 

If we move Devers to 1B, then Casas plays DH, Yoshida LF and Duran might be "sell high" trade bait.

 

Or, we move Yoshida to DH and Duran to LF and trade Casas.

 

Of course, Dugo's name has been mentioned as trade bait, too.

 

Could Whitlock and Houck be on the list?

 

Here is the BTV numbers:

 

47.5 Casas

45.7 Duran

27.5 Houck

11.3 Verdugo

4.8 Whitlock

 

[notin]

Whitlock's value already fell to 4.8, while Houck's remains at 27.5.

 

I think Yoshida started out in the negative value column, but now he is at 17.8.

 

If we move Devers to 1B, then Casas plays DH, Yoshida LF and Duran might be "sell high" trade bait.

 

Or, we move Yoshida to DH and Duran to LF and trade Casas.

 

Of course, Dugo's name has been mentioned as trade bait, too.

 

Could Whitlock and Houck be on the list?

 

Here is the BTV numbers:

 

47.5 Casas

45.7 Duran

27.5 Houck

11.3 Verdugo

4.8 Whitlock

 

 

Duran is an exciting offensive player at times, but he isn’t all that much of a CF (although infinitely better than he was last year).

 

I do like the idea of a Duran/Garrett deal. Certainly Florida needs the CF help, what with a misplaced and oft-injured Jaz Chisholm out there. Duran-Arraez might be an interesting leadoff combo, as well.

 

I’m sure Miami has a different assessment of Duran than myself and BTV…

[redsoxrules]

How is that worse than a crappy defensive 3Bman and current crappy defensive 1Bman, too?

 

He's not getting paid for his D.

 

Most of his errors are throwing, so he could be a plus on D at 1B.

 

It's worse because we already have better first basemen then him on the team and he's a lot cheaper

[mvp 78]

How is that worse than a crappy defensive 3Bman and current crappy defensive 1Bman, too?

 

He's not getting paid for his D.

 

Most of his errors are throwing, so he could be a plus on D at 1B.

 

You’ve had a boner for moving him to 1b since at least 2016.

[notin]

It's worse because we already have better first basemen then him on the team and he's a lot cheaper

 

Casas is cheaper but he is definitely a question mark at baseball’s easiest defensive position…

[moonslav59]

It's worse because we already have better first basemen then him on the team and he's a lot cheaper

 

Casas is even worse on D than Devers.

[moonslav59]

You’ve had a boner for moving him to 1b since at least 2016.

 

I waffled after he started showing marked improvement, but I'm back to square one, I guess.

 

He's not horrific at 3B, like Kike was at SS, but it looks like it's time to move him.

[redsoxrules]

Casas is even worse on D than Devers.

 

Devers is -5 DRS while Casas is -4DRS.

 

Casas is also going to improve while Devers has peaked already. So yeah, we have a better first basemen on the team and the way he's progressing with the bat he might be out performing him with that too.

[mvp 78]

Devers is -5 DRS while Casas is -4DRS.

 

Casas is also going to improve while Devers has peaked already. So yeah, we have a better first basemen on the team and the way he's progressing with the bat he might be out performing him with that too.

 

Casas OAA -11

Devers OAA -6

 

It just depends on what metric you are looking at. Neither are very good defensively. Would Devers be good at 1B? We can't conclude that! He could be just as bad there too. Why not move Devers to LF?

[redsoxrules]

Casas OAA -11

Devers OAA -6

 

It just depends on what metric you are looking at. Neither are very good defensively. Would Devers be good at 1B? We can't conclude that! He could be just as bad there too. Why not move Devers to LF?

 

Yes but Casas is just starting. He will obviously get better there. Where Devers is already peaked

[moonslav59]

Devers is -5 DRS while Casas is -4DRS.

 

Casas is also going to improve while Devers has peaked already. So yeah, we have a better first basemen on the team and the way he's progressing with the bat he might be out performing him with that too.

 

Devers would be 3 times better than Casas at 1B, day one- with no practice.

 

There is a reason they moved Casas from 3B to 1B before Devers.

[moonslav59]

Yes but Casas is just starting. He will obviously get better there. Where Devers is already peaked

 

Devers has a plus glove. His range is better than Casas.

 

It's his arm that causes all the problems, and that won't be an issue at 1B.

 

[Hugh2]

Devers has a plus glove. His range is better than Casas.

 

It's his arm that causes all the problems, and that won't be an issue at 1B.

 

 

But, then where is Casas going to play?

[moonslav59]

But, then where is Casas going to play?

 

DH or for another team.

 

IMO, one aspect of the idea of building up the everyday player portion of the farm, is to eventually trade some for pitching.

[redsoxrules]

Why would they want to trade Casas? He looks like he's going to be good. He's showing good maturity already.

[Bellhorn04]

Why would they want to trade Casas? He looks like he's going to be good. He's showing good maturity already.

 

Agreed. He's a keeper. The team's erratic play is making us think crazy things.

[moonslav59]

Why would they want to trade Casas? He looks like he's going to be good. He's showing good maturity already.

 

I really like Casas, but I also like Mayer, Anthony and other top prospects.

 

How do you propose we trade for an excellent, cost-controlled pitcher with 3+ years of team control without giving up something of value.

 

A common misconception is that suggesting a trade of a good player means we devalue them or want to "dump them," because we don't like them.

 

We need a middle IF'er badly, so I want to keep Mayer.

 

We will need OF'ers, soon, so I want to keep Anthony and Bleis, and their trade value should only increase, anyway. It's also why we should keep Rafaela and Abreu.

 

Who else should we trade for pitching?

 

Verdugo won't get us a good one.

 

Trade Duran?

 

 

 

[Hugh2]

DH or for another team.

 

IMO, one aspect of the idea of building up the everyday player portion of the farm, is to eventually trade some for pitching.

 

But Yoshida should be your DH in a year or two.

 

I know you will say you like him, and I don't disbelieve you, but your willingness to trade Casas is a repeating theme. He's turning into one of the best hitters in baseball and still growing into the position and he's COST CONTROLLED. He's the definition of a guy you do not trade.

[Hugh2]

I really like Casas, but I also like Mayer, Anthony and other top prospects.

 

How do you propose we trade for an excellent, cost-controlled pitcher with 3+ years of team control without giving up something of value.

 

A common misconception is that suggesting a trade of a good player means we devalue them or want to "dump them," because we don't like them.

 

We need a middle IF'er badly, so I want to keep Mayer.

 

We will need OF'ers, soon, so I want to keep Anthony and Bleis, and their trade value should only increase, anyway. It's also why we should keep Rafaela and Abreu.

 

Who else should we trade for pitching?

 

Verdugo won't get us a good one.

 

Trade Duran?

 

 

 

 

WHy are people insistent on trading all our cost controlled youngsters for pitching when the FA market is flush with it next year?

 

You spend money on that and fill your roster out with cost-controlled young studs because developing them is what the Sox do best. Yeah, you can trade Casas/Mayer away for a stud, but now you're paying that stud AND you have to pay someone to replace Casas/Mayer. You create more future holes and inflate your budget.

 

Also, the move you're talking about is what you do when you have close to WS roster. Sox didn't trade for a Chris Sale type in 2014, they did it after they were already a 1st place team for a few years. Trading away young talent for a pitcher now would not only be dumb, it would be a slap in the face to the fans who have endured this "build the farm" scheme only to blow it all up before it reaches fruition. Don't you think we've suffered enough?

[mvp 78]

Why would they want to trade Casas? He looks like he's going to be good. He's showing good maturity already.

 

Trade Casas for a good starting pitcher if you believe you can't develop pitching AND you need to move Devers to 1b.

[mvp 78]

WHy are people insistent on trading all our cost controlled youngsters for pitching when the FA market is flush with it next year?

 

Because every other team wants that pitching too. The Cardinals GM said:

 

""Realistically, we know we have to add three starters this offseason. We know we have to add depth. We went into the season thinking that we would have that covered. It didn't work out that way. Having a repeat of that would not be in the best interest of the franchise. So I think our approach is going to be very aggressive on the pitching side. We'll see where it takes us.""

 

The Sox aren't the only team looking for pitching.

[Dipre]

I really like Casas, but I also like Mayer, Anthony and other top prospects.

 

How do you propose we trade for an excellent, cost-controlled pitcher with 3+ years of team control without giving up something of value.

 

A common misconception is that suggesting a trade of a good player means we devalue them or want to "dump them," because we don't like them.

 

We need a middle IF'er badly, so I want to keep Mayer.

 

We will need OF'ers, soon, so I want to keep Anthony and Bleis, and their trade value should only increase, anyway. It's also why we should keep Rafaela and Abreu.

 

Who else should we trade for pitching?

 

Verdugo won't get us a good one.

 

Trade Duran?

 

 

 

 

So you trade what projects to be the best homegrown hitter since Devers, when you can just buy pitching? Stop.

[moonslav59]

So you trade what projects to be the best homegrown hitter since Devers, when you can just buy pitching? Stop.

 

You can "buy" pitching, but it has proven to be a a losing roll of the dice gamble way more often than being even okay.

 

Again, I really like Casas, but I think Devers will field 1B much better, day one than Casas will ever do it.

 

Casas has enormous trade value, because he has enormous skills. I'm not for handing him away. I'm for the possibility of seeing what kind of pitcher we can get for a package centered on him. I'm not for just getting any pitcher for him.

 

You STOP!

[moonslav59]

But Yoshida should be your DH in a year or two.

 

I know you will say you like him, and I don't disbelieve you, but your willingness to trade Casas is a repeating theme. He's turning into one of the best hitters in baseball and still growing into the position and he's COST CONTROLLED. He's the definition of a guy you do not trade.

 

I mentioned the idea of moving Yoshida to DH as a reason to think about trading Casas. I like Duran in LF not CF.

 

I'd be okay with Casas at DH and Yoshida in LF and maybe trading Duran and others for a top pitcher.

 

Guys, we aren't getting a top pitcher by trading Bonaci, Paulino and Walter.

 

We can roll the dice with a FA SP'er, but I see mostly 30-31+ year olds on this winter's market.

 

If I knew Bloom would sign urias and or YY from Japan, I would not be for trading casas or Duran. I'd look to trade Verdugo or maybe even Yoshida, so Duran can play LF.

 

You tell me the chances we sign one of those two. I don't see anyone else I want or think we can or should outbid others for.

 

Convince me I'm wrong on this.

[Dipre]

You can "buy" pitching, but it has proven to be a a losing roll of the dice gamble way more often than being even okay.

 

Again, I really like Casas, but I think Devers will field 1B much better, day one than Casas will ever do it.

 

Casas has enormous trade value, because he has enormous skills. I'm not for handing him away. I'm for the possibility of seeing what kind of pitcher we can get for a package centered on him. I'm not for just getting any pitcher for him.

 

You STOP!

 

Yamamoto is available, for one. Other teams get good value from the IFA market, as well as the secondary FA market? Why can't the Red Sox do it? They also have minor league depth in many positions, but not a hitter like Casas or Devers in the MiLB system. It's a matter of common sense.

[Hugh2]

Trading Casas is just bananas, and should be a conversational ENDER.