Mets Going Nuts

[Bellhorn04]

After the signing of Senga for $75 mill, their projected 2023 payroll for tax purposes sits at around $344 million. That's $111 million over the first threshold.

 

I saw an estimate that their luxury tax bill for 2023 will be over $100 million!

 

Their 2024 commitments already project them to be over next year's threshold.* It'll be their third year over the tax, meaning even more penalties.

 

And Steve Cohen, who's worth around $17 billion, just don't care.

 

I saw someone suggest that Cohen is going to be the cause of a hard salary cap in the next CBA, which seems like a plausible theory.

 

* Sorry, Hugh. You don't have to pay off our bet, because it was too much of a gimme.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Bellhorn04

[Bellhorn04]

For a long time we've talked about the possibility of rich owners reaching into their own pockets to spend on the team, and I don't think we've really seen it happen.

 

Until Steve Cohen.

[moonslav59]

After the signing of Senga for $75 mill, their projected 2023 payroll for tax purposes sits at around $344 million. That's $111 million over the first threshold.

 

I saw an estimate that their luxury tax bill for 2023 will be over $100 million!

 

Their 2024 commitments already project them to be over next year's threshold.* It'll be their third year over the tax, meaning even more penalties.

 

And Steve Cohen, who's worth around $17 billion, just don't care.

 

I saw someone suggest that Cohen is going to be the cause of a hard salary cap in the next CBA, which seems like a plausible theory.

 

* Sorry, Hugh. You don't have to pay off our bet, because it was too much of a gimme.

 

Maybe after they win a ring, he slows down.

[moonslav59]

For a long time we've talked about the possibility of rich owners reaching into their own pockets to spend on the team, and I don't think we've really seen it happen.

 

Until Steve Cohen.

 

It's happened, even with Henry, but just nowhere near this extreme. He's making the Rangers, Dodgers & Padres look like the Rays.

[redsoxrules]

For a long time we've talked about the possibility of rich owners reaching into their own pockets to spend on the team, and I don't think we've really seen it happen.

 

Until Steve Cohen.

 

I'm pretty sure this ain't coming from his pocket. Their revenue would far exceed this payroll

[moonslav59]

I'm pretty sure this ain't coming from his pocket. Their revenue would far exceed this payroll

 

Good point. He'll just make less profit- maybe, than had he not signed 1 or 2 of these guys.

[redsoxrules]

These owners are filthy rich. I applaud what Cohen is doing to be honest. These tax tresholds are peanuts for these owners. I certainly applaud Henry for the 4 rings but the way the market is going if he wants to stay competitive he will need to open his check book soon.

[moonslav59]

These owners are filthy rich. I applaud what Cohen is doing to be honest. These tax tresholds are peanuts for these owners. I certainly applaud Henry for the 4 rings but the way the market is going if he wants to stay competitive he will need to open his check book soon.

 

Is having 8 players making $20M per "opening his checkbook" as much as another GM who has 3 players at $33M per?

 

If you had to pick the better strategy, which would you think is better?

 

(I know it goes beyond this, as guys like Cohen may end doing both, but JH has spent and is still spending top 5-7 in MLB. Now, he has to be top 3-4, or he gets roasted?

[Bellhorn04]

Is having 8 players making $20M per "opening his checkbook" as much as another GM who has 3 players at $33M per?

 

If you had to pick the better strategy, which would you think is better?

 

(I know it goes beyond this, as guys like Cohen may end doing both, but JH has spent and is still spending top 5-7 in MLB. Now, he has to be top 3-4, or he gets roasted?

 

The Red Sox are #3 in market value.

[redsoxrules]

Is having 8 players making $20M per "opening his checkbook" as much as another GM who has 3 players at $33M per?

 

If you had to pick the better strategy, which would you think is better?

 

(I know it goes beyond this, as guys like Cohen may end doing both, but JH has spent and is still spending top 5-7 in MLB. Now, he has to be top 3-4, or he gets roasted?

 

JH biggest contract has been 217 Mil followed by Manny way back in the day at 160 Mil. When I mean open his check book I mean for mega deals to retain superstars. Can you imagine the Sox still had Mookie and Xander on the team this year? Sure their payroll would be higher but they would have a great core where they would be competitive year after year. How many deals in MLB history have eclipsed 160 Milion? A lot and Red Sox only have ONE of them

[Bellhorn04]

JH biggest contract has been 217 Mil followed by Manny way back in the day at 160 Mil. When I mean open his check book I mean for mega deals to retain superstars. Can you imagine the Sox still had Mookie and Xander on the team this year? Sure their payroll would be higher but they would have a great core where they would be competitive year after year. How many deals in MLB history have eclipsed 160 Milion? A lot and Red Sox only have ONE of them

 

Price's contract is now #22 on the list of biggest contracts.

[redsoxrules]

Price's contract is now #22 on the list of biggest contracts.

 

Yes and how many contracts from that one to Manny's 160 Mil year deal?

[Bellhorn04]

Yes and how many contracts from that one to Manny's 160 Mil year deal?

 

Plenty.

[moonslav59]

Yes and how many contracts from that one to Manny's 160 Mil year deal?

 

Index those contracts to inflation and Manny's and Price's move up the list.

 

What you might also find is that the Sox have a ton of contracts in the 50-150 range, and if you count extensions, maybe even better. AGon, Porcello, Bogey and Sale were extensions. We seem to have a lot in the $65-145 range.

 

Also, look at that list of highest signings and give me a percent on how many were clearly successful, okay to decent and bad to horrific. Off the top pf my head, not counting pending grades, I'm guessing 25%- 40%- 35%.

[moonslav59]

Plenty.

 

Do we have more than 1/30th of the top 30 contracts? The top 60? The top 90, 120, 150...?

 

I'm pretty sure we'll see endless yeses.

[Bellhorn04]

The report that the Mets were considering Correa suggests they're not done yet this offseason. Cohen wants to buy a championship or two and he doesn't care how much it takes. He's already blown past all the barriers - there are no further penalties to be incurred, just more tax.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The report that the Mets were considering Correa suggests they're not done yet this offseason. Cohen wants to buy a championship or two and he doesn't care how much it takes. He's already blown past all the barriers - there are no further penalties to be incurred, just more tax.

 

This is why the Mets are the most likely trade partner for Devers, because they might not mind giving up a prospect of actual value(Chaim) -- since why care about the future, when they can just buy more good players?

[notin]

This is why the Mets are the most likely trade partner for Devers, because they might not mind giving up a prospect of actual value(Chaim) -- since why care about the future, when they can just buy more good players?

 

The Mets gave up former first round pick and soon-to-be BA Top 100 prospect Pete Crow-Armstrong for two months of Javier Baez.

 

 

For trading vets, the Mets are the preferred partner. For acquiring vets, shop Oakland…

[notin]

The report that the Mets were considering Correa suggests they're not done yet this offseason. Cohen wants to buy a championship or two and he doesn't care how much it takes. He's already blown past all the barriers - there are no further penalties to be incurred, just more tax.

 

If Correa prefers shortstop, the Mets (with Lindor) were off his list…

[moonslav59]

This is why the Mets are the most likely trade partner for Devers, because they might not mind giving up a prospect of actual value(Chaim) -- since why care about the future, when they can just buy more good players?

 

If we end up trading Devers for prospects we should have just tore it all down 3 years ago and told the fans it was a 5 year plan.

 

We'd be 3 years closer by now.

[Old Red]

If we end up trading Devers for prospects we should have just tore it all down 3 years ago and told the fans it was a 5 year plan.

 

We'd be 3 years closer by now.

 

If things are that bad off, because JH doesn’t want to play, and pay anymore then it’s time for him to sell, and get someone in Boston who does want to play, and pay. If you think fans are crying, and pissed off now after this past year this would be nothing compared to if they were told any kind of 5 year plan had to take place.

[moonslav59]

If things are that bad off, because JH doesn’t want to play, and pay anymore then it’s time for him to sell, and get someone in Boston who does want to play, and pay. If you think fans are crying, and pissed off now after this past year this would be nothing compared to if they were told any kind of 5 year plan had to take place.

 

At least he'd have been honest and we'd be 3 years closer than if he decides to tear it down, now.

 

That's all I'm saying.

 

Even you said we should have traded Bogey over a year ago, if we knew he was a goner.

 

Who knows what he's going to do, but I'm sure he's hearing the roar over all the false info Bloom is giving him.

[Old Red]

At least he'd have been honest and we'd be 3 years closer than if he decides to tear it down, now.

 

That's all I'm saying.

 

Even you said we should have traded Bogey over a year ago, if we knew he was a goner.

 

Who knows what he's going to do, but I'm sure he's hearing the roar over all the false info Bloom is giving him.

I know you would have no problem with a 5 year plan, and that would be alright for you, but I doubt very much that a good percentage of fans would feel the same way. The best thing for Henry to do is sell in that situation, so someone could take over, and make the Red Sox competitive again.I’ve been a Red Sox fan for 60+ years, and I’ve never heard mention of doing a 5yr plan before.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Old Red

[moonslav59]

I know you would have no problem with a 5 year plan, and that would be alright for you, but I doubt very much that a good percentage of fans would feel the same way. The best thing for Henry to do is sell in that situation, so someone could take over, and make the Red Sox competitive again.I’ve been a Red Sox fan for 60+ years, and I’ve never heard mention of doing a 5yr plan before.

 

I've never wanted a 5 year plan. I only mentioned it in the context of us maybe dealing Devers and punting for a another couple years, which would make 5 total. Only in that light- in hindsight- would I then think, why didn't we just blow everything up after 2019 and truly follow the Astros model by tanking for 3 years and winning in 5.

[moonslav59]

I know you would have no problem with a 5 year plan, and that would be alright for you, but I doubt very much that a good percentage of fans would feel the same way. The best thing for Henry to do is sell in that situation, so someone could take over, and make the Red Sox competitive again.I’ve been a Red Sox fan for 60+ years, and I’ve never heard mention of doing a 5yr plan before.

 

No, It's never been mentioned. In some ways, I felt when Ben took over, they were planning long term but not set year plan, while trying to look somewhat competitive along the way, so the fans wouldn't get too pissed. The win in 2013 kinda shocked the Nation, and Ben was gone before he had reached 5 years.

[Bellhorn04]

Now Correa?

 

Jeezus.

 

If Bowie Kuhn was alive he'd probably veto this deal.

 

Cohen has lost his mind and Manfred is probably going to have to do something about it. I'm sure that'll go well.

[Bellhorn04]

So much for "competitive balance".

 

At a certain point this ain't funny any more.

[Bellhorn04]

Cohen is likely not done at all. Why stop until you're virtually guaranteed the 2023 trophy?

 

This is a serious problem now. What will Manfred do? That probably depends on how much heat he's getting from other owners.

[notin]

Cohen is likely not done at all. Why stop until you're virtually guaranteed the 2023 trophy?

 

This is a serious problem now. What will Manfred do? That probably depends on how much heat he's getting from other owners.

 

Wouldn’t it be cheaper to just buy a trophy? Heck it might be cheaper to just buy the company that makes the trophies…

[notin]

So much for "competitive balance".

 

At a certain point this ain't funny any more.

 

 

The Mets’ projected tax payments could wind up greater than the entire payroll of approximately 12 teams. Maybe more, depending on how the next 3 months shake out…