Overall Grade on Bloom & Cora

[mvp 78]

I keep hearing that last years team wasn’t supposed to be very good. Why, because of 2020? There was to much talent on last years team to start the season to think they wasn’t going to be very good plus Sale, and ERod were coming back, and JD got his binky IPad back so he could hit again. Cora didn’t take a bunch of nobodies, and turned them into a playoff team.

 

2019: Not a playoff team

They then deal away their biggest superstar.

2020: One of the worst teams in the league

 

Are you suggesting the expectations were that they were going to get into the playoffs in 2021? Bloom said they would "compete" and I think most people said "that means 84 wins."

[Bellhorn04]

I keep hearing that last years team wasn’t supposed to be very good. Why, because of 2020? There was to much talent on last years team to start the season to think they wasn’t going to be very good plus Sale, and ERod were coming back, and JD got his binky IPad back so he could hit again. Cora didn’t take a bunch of nobodies, and turned them into a playoff team.

 

Sale didn't quite make it back...

[moonslav59]

I like YS for his glove first, but yes Fitzy would be an option too.

 

soxprospects calls him a solid defender at SS, so I'm not sure how much better YS is on D.

[moonslav59]

Let’s remember too on how long it has taken Cora to address the backend of the BP, and give Houck at shot at closer. I guess he figured piggybacking was more important.

 

I didn't like that call, either, but babying Hill might end up paying off in the long run.

[notin]

This is clearly a good point, and one I agreed with and used often at the time of the trade, but I really think the move was maybe equally about getting Binelas and Hamilton.

 

There is only so much a GM can do with the draft, IFA and mastering the waiver wire. Right or wrong, Bloom felt one priority was to build up the quantity and quality of prospects in the system. I know the value is highly speculative, but it still has value,

 

A long view is often needed on deals like this.

 

JBJ is going to have to hit even better, of one or both prospects are going to have to produce at the ML level for this trade to be viewed as balanced or a plus. The money aspect has to be considered as well. Had the money been even, we could have afforded a decent RH'd bat in the OF or an upgrade on Diekman in the pen.

 

It's a fair critique.

 

Bloom has missed on several choices, and on others we need to wait it out to know the final grade.

 

I disagree that the Sox needed a RHH OF to platoon Bradley at all, but using a RHH infielder is just asking for trouble.

 

Bradley is coming off a season in which he barely hit RHP, but the big worry is how he does vs LHP? Seriously?

 

He was brought in for defense. Use him that way and bat him ninth. I don’t revenge anyone ever platooning with Ozzie Smith…

[moonslav59]

I would think Bloom and Cora saw eye-to-eye perfectly on that one.

 

Bloom is the guy who acquired Arroyo.

 

Cora is the guy who likes platoons and L-R matchups.

 

I understand the reasoning, and Cordero does not address the RH'd bat in the OF issue, but Refsnyder does.

[moonslav59]

Trial, and error was one thing, but both Barnes, and Robles wasn’t working early on, and to much time was wasted playing iney,meany, miney, mo.

 

Hard to know that on the fly. Easy to know in hindsight.

 

Many did not want to see Barnes get a chance to close, last year, but that iney-meany-miney-mo worked for a long time, anyway.

 

Rp'ers are often up and down, and that's why you often see them recycled- hoping you hit them on an upswing, now and then.

 

I agree, some things were given too long- somethings needed to be tried earlier, but I have the benefit of hindsight.

[Old Red]

2019: Not a playoff team

They then deal away their biggest superstar.

2020: One of the worst teams in the league

 

Are you suggesting the expectations were that they were going to get into the playoffs in 2021? Bloom said they would "compete" and I think most people said "that means 84 wins."

 

No I’m just saying there was lots of talent on the team to start the 2021 season, and at least would be a winning team. I just throw the 2020 season out the window like it never happened. 2020 did not carry into 2021 just like 2018 didn’t carry over into 2019. I didn’t know if last years team would make the PS, but I at least thought they would be a 82-80 team in other words a winning one.

[Old Red]

I disagree that the Sox needed a RHH OF to platoon Bradley at all, but using a RHH infielder is just asking for trouble.

 

Bradley is coming off a season in which he barely hit RHP, but the big worry is how he does vs LHP? Seriously?

 

He was brought in for defense. Use him that way and bat him ninth. I don’t revenge anyone ever platooning with Ozzie Smith…

That’s why I said that this L-R thing is sometimes overrated, and unnecessary, so you weaken your D with Arroyo, and pretty much weaken your offense too, because Arroyo wasn’t hitting any better than JBJ. Just over managing to me.

[moonslav59]

This assumption is a popular one here for those who appreciate Bloom's style. I've never disputed your point, and instead have always felt that working within certain limits was actually the specific reason Bloom was hired in Boston.

 

In other words, I doubt he keeps drawing up projected lineups or rotations with expensive proposals, enthusiastically brings them to Henry's office, only to trudge back to the conference room after continual thumbs-down.

 

Yes, you are right. Bloom was hired to better handle the situation than someone like DD, but I doubt he was hired with the expectation of the team becoming a top contender in 1-2 years- maybe even 3 years.

 

I do agree, he largely missed on just about every "gem in the rough" attempt in 2020. We must have tried 25-30 of these types and just about nobody stuck. That was what he was hired to do, and he largely failed in 2020, but IMO, he failed to make the team a near .500 team not a winner as early as 2020, especially after seeing Sale on the IL, ERod miss the year with Covid, B eni miss 3/4 of the short season and Nate miss 1/4 of his starts.

 

He traded a soon-to-be washed out Workman and Hembree for Pivetta & Seabold, and the following winter he made some lasting additions while improving the farm and lower part of the 40 man roster in a much quicker manner than I ever could have expected. The results are still to be seen. The "great farm" DD inherited was largely a bust, but he used their trade value masterfully.

 

Bloom did not have that luxury. The farm was better than we thought, but there was very little trade value or ML ready prospects ready to step in and produce. To me, that has to be part of the grading rubric.

 

Shouldn't your final grade be based on what could reasonably be expected?

 

I know many disagreed with the strength of the roster after 2019. The "C" word was thrown around and hotly debated. It appears that those who thought the talk of a "C" expected more from Bloom than he has given us. Those who thought the 9-40 slots in the 40 and farm were a mess, post 2019, had lower expectations and a longer timetable to get back to competitiveness.

[moonslav59]

I keep hearing that last years team wasn’t supposed to be very good. Why, because of 2020? There was to much talent on last years team to start the season to think they wasn’t going to be very good plus Sale, and ERod were coming back, and JD got his binky IPad back so he could hit again. Cora didn’t take a bunch of nobodies, and turned them into a playoff team.

 

No, he turned a bunch of nobodies into different players that were better. The 2021 roster was vastly different from the end of season 2019 roster.

 

Bloom acquired Whitlock, Pivetta, Kike, Renfroe, Arroyo, Dugo, Schwarber, Iggy, Shaw, Davis and Robles. Yes, he missed or broke close to even on others, but he created much of the roster.

[moonslav59]

2019: Not a playoff team

They then deal away their biggest superstar.

2020: One of the worst teams in the league

 

Are you suggesting the expectations were that they were going to get into the playoffs in 2021? Bloom said they would "compete" and I think most people said "that means 84 wins."

 

To add to this excellent point, if anyone expected better than 84 wins or a team that got 2 wins away from the WS, then wouldn't that imply they felt Bloom did an excellent job over the winter, right?

[Old Red]

No, he turned a bunch of nobodies into different players that were better. The 2021 roster was vastly different from the end of season 2019 roster.

 

Bloom acquired Whitlock, Pivetta, Kike, Renfroe, Arroyo, Dugo, Schwarber, Iggy, Shaw, Davis and Robles. Yes, he missed or broke close to even on others, but he created much of the roster.

NOBODY was even comparing 2021 with 2019. All I said , or getting at that was starting a season with Bogey, Raffy, JD, Dugy, and Vaz plus ERod starting the season plus the good Barnes was there was not a lack of talent, and shouldn’t have been thought of as a losing team going into 2021 just, because of the 2020 team. Wasn’t even counting any the the additions that Bloom added to the roster that off season. The point had nothing to do with Bloom at all.

[moonslav59]

I disagree that the Sox needed a RHH OF to platoon Bradley at all, but using a RHH infielder is just asking for trouble.

 

Bradley is coming off a season in which he barely hit RHP, but the big worry is how he does vs LHP? Seriously?

 

He was brought in for defense. Use him that way and bat him ninth. I don’t revenge anyone ever platooning with Ozzie Smith…

 

Well, the GM did actually specifically say we needed a RH'd bat for the OF, so there is that.

 

IMO, the late Story signing scuttled any plans to get a RH'd bat for the OF, and gave them a false sense of security with the idea that Arroyo could play OF.

 

The Story signing also set Kike as the FT CF'er who bats RH'd, so that changed things a little, too.

 

I'm not hung up on the RH'd bat in the OF as much as many, here. I think it was a minor choice that was or will be over-shadowed by Story at 2B and Kike in CF FT.

 

I also think Bloom did very well spending in other areas- like Wacha, Hill and Starhm. Much better than his 2021 signings.

[moonslav59]

No I’m just saying there was lots of talent on the team to start the 2021 season, and at least would be a winning team. I just throw the 2020 season out the window like it never happened. 2020 did not carry into 2021 just like 2018 didn’t carry over into 2019. I didn’t know if last years team would make the PS, but I at least thought they would be a 82-80 team in other words a winning one.

 

So, this kind of begs the question. If 2020 should not count and the expectation for 2021 was 82-84 wins, why does Bloom get a below C grade?

 

Is it the 2022 season, so far?

 

Does not getting a cheap RH'd bat for the OF and a bonafide closer really outweigh the additions of Story, Wacha, Hill, Strahm, Schreiber and Refsnyder- not to mention players like Whitlock, Pivetta and others added since the deadline of 2020?

 

Does rebuilding the farm to respectability also factor into the grade in a positive way?

 

Does the added long range budget concerns, which is only Story, a good or a bad thing?

[moonslav59]

NOBODY was even comparing 2021 with 2019. All I said , or getting at that was starting a season with Bogey, Raffy, JD, Dugy, and Vaz plus ERod starting the season plus the good Barnes was there was not a lack of talent, and shouldn’t have been thought of as a losing team going into 2021 just, because of the 2020 team. Wasn’t even counting any the the additions that Bloom added to the roster that off season. The point had nothing to do with Bloom at all.

 

We did NOT make the playoffs on the back of those few players you listed, and you made the comment a bout Bloom not turning a bunch of "nobodies into a playoff team." I responded to that specific point.

 

No, JD, Devers, Bogey. ERod and Barnes were not nobodies, but we did have a ton of nobodies from the #9 to 40 slot on the 40 man when Bloom took over. I'm not sure that is something that can even be debated. Maybe the #9 can be pushed to #12-40, but that means over 25 players were nobodies or close to nobodies, and YES, Bloom turned those nobodies into a supporting cast that allowed us to do better than 82-84 wins. Cora helped, too.

 

He did not get nobodies to play better: he replaced them.

 

Here is the end of year roster for 2019. Note: Betts and Price were forced out, Porcello, Moreland and Holt were a FAs to be. (Moreland was brought back)

 

https://www.soxprospects.com/2019SE.htm

 

Basically this:

 

Rotation:

Sale (IL)

Erod

Johnson

Shawaryn

KHart

 

Pen:

Workman

Barnes

Taylor

Hembree

Walden

DHern

Brasier

Lakins

Weber/ Brewer/Poyner (Houck)

 

C: Vaz & Leon (Centeno)

1B: Sam Travis (Dalbec/Ockimey)

2B: Marco Hernandez (Chatham)

3B: Devers

SS: Bogey (Owings)

LF: Beni

CF: JBJ

RF: Gorkys Hernandez

DH: JD

[moonslav59]

We did NOT make the playoffs on the back of those few players you listed, and you made the comment a bout Bloom not turning a bunch of "nobodies into a playoff team." I responded to that specific point.

 

No, JD, Devers, Bogey. ERod and Barnes were not nobodies, but we did have a ton of nobodies from the #9 to 40 slot on the 40 man when Bloom took over. I'm not sure that is something that can even be debated. Maybe the #9 can be pushed to #12-40, but that means over 25 players were nobodies or close to nobodies, and YES, Bloom turned those nobodies into a supporting cast that allowed us to do better than 82-84 wins. Cora helped, too.

 

He did not get nobodies to play better: he replaced them.

 

Here is the end of year roster for 2019. Note: Betts and Price were forced out, Porcello, Moreland and Holt were a FAs to be. (Moreland was brought back)

 

https://www.soxprospects.com/2019SE.htm

 

Basically this:

 

Rotation:

Sale (IL)

Erod

Johnson

Shawaryn

KHart

 

Pen:

Workman

Barnes

Taylor

Hembree

Walden

DHern

Brasier

Lakins

Weber/ Brewer/Poyner (Houck)

 

C: Vaz & Leon (Centeno)

1B: Sam Travis (Dalbec/Ockimey)

2B: Marco Hernandez (Chatham)

3B: Devers

SS: Bogey (Owings)

LF: Beni

CF: JBJ

RF: Gorkys Hernandez

DH: JD

 

I forgot Chavis at 2B and counting Verdugo as Betts & Price's replacment.

Edited June 15, 2022 by moonslav59

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

 

Shouldn't your final grade be based on what could reasonably be expected?

 

 

Come on, I was a teacher, too. We don't give grades based on expectations... let's see: '21 they won 92 -- 92's an A... '20 they won 24 -- uh, out of 60 -- still only .400; 40%'s an F. But last year the winning percentage was only .568 or 57% rounded up... ok, grade on a curve; only three other students out of 15 in the class had a higher score.

 

Sorry, I come from a time when All-Stars were chosen based on who actually earned it -- not potential or popularity -- but who had an All-Star season. This ended in the majors when MLB gave the ballots back to the fans, but amateur leagues like Little League on up were mostly based on merit.

 

Nowadays, our town LL holds All-Star try-outs after the season. Tools are evaluated -- which means the fastest kids with the best arms are always stars -- no matter what kind of Spring they had. Everyone that signs up doesn't get a trophy like in soccer... but there was one infamous case of a player selected for districts after he struck out 20 times in 20 at bats. Had a decent arm, though.

[Old Red]

We did NOT make the playoffs on the back of those few players you listed, and you made the comment a bout Bloom not turning a bunch of "nobodies into a playoff team." I responded to that specific point.

 

No, JD, Devers, Bogey. ERod and Barnes were not nobodies, but we did have a ton of nobodies from the #9 to 40 slot on the 40 man when Bloom took over. I'm not sure that is something that can even be debated. Maybe the #9 can be pushed to #12-40, but that means over 25 players were nobodies or close to nobodies, and YES, Bloom turned those nobodies into a supporting cast that allowed us to do better than 82-84 wins. Cora helped, too.

 

He did not get nobodies to play better: he replaced them.

 

Here is the end of year roster for 2019. Note: Betts and Price were forced out, Porcello, Moreland and Holt were a FAs to be. (Moreland was brought back)

 

https://www.soxprospects.com/2019SE.htm

 

Basically this:

 

Rotation:

Sale (IL)

Erod

Johnson

Shawaryn

KHart

 

Pen:

Workman

Barnes

Taylor

Hembree

Walden

DHern

Brasier

Lakins

Weber/ Brewer/Poyner (Houck)

 

C: Vaz & Leon (Centeno)

1B: Sam Travis (Dalbec/Ockimey)

2B: Marco Hernandez (Chatham)

3B: Devers

SS: Bogey (Owings)

LF: Beni

CF: JBJ

RF: Gorkys Hernandez

DH: JD

 

Once again this point had nothing to do with Bloom, nor what happened during , or after the 2021 season. Once again the discussion had nothing to do with Bloom, but about Cora getting the team last year into the post season. My point was the predictions for last years team to start the season was underrated on here, and that my opinion was starting last season I thought they would be better than most other people thought. How you got off on all this other stuff would be a whole separate discussion.

[Bellhorn04]

That’s why I said that this L-R thing is sometimes overrated, and unnecessary, so you weaken your D with Arroyo, and pretty much weaken your offense too, because Arroyo wasn’t hitting any better than JBJ. Just over managing to me.

 

But if Refsnyder does well, will you also call that over managing?

[moonslav59]

Come on, I was a teacher, too. We don't give grades based on expectations... let's see: '21 they won 92 -- 92's an A... '20 they won 24 -- uh, out of 60 -- still only .400; 40%'s an F. But last year the winning percentage was only .568 or 57% rounded up... ok, grade on a curve; only three other students out of 15 in the class had a higher score.

 

Sorry, I come from a time when All-Stars were chosen based on who actually earned it -- not potential or popularity -- but who had an All-Star season. This ended in the majors when MLB gave the ballots back to the fans, but amateur leagues like Little League on up were mostly based on merit.

 

Nowadays, our town LL holds All-Star try-outs after the season. Tools are evaluated -- which means the fastest kids with the best arms are always stars -- no matter what kind of Spring they had. Everyone that signs up doesn't get a trophy like in soccer... but there was one infamous case of a player selected for districts after he struck out 20 times in 20 at bats. Had a decent arm, though.

 

Do, Bloom gets and F on 2020, despite being handed a live gernade.

 

He gets a B+ for 2021.

 

He gets a B+ for 2022.

 

That totals a C-.

 

Gotcha.

 

All GMs with a budget under $60M who have losing records are graded F.

 

BTW, in most schools, new to the country students who know no English are not given an "F" in English.

[moonslav59]

Once again this point had nothing to do with Bloom, nor what happened during , or after the 2021 season. Once again the discussion had nothing to do with Bloom, but about Cora getting the team last year into the post season. My point was the predictions for last years team to start the season was underrated on here, and that my opinion was starting last season I thought they would be better than most other people thought. How you got off on all this other stuff would be a whole separate discussion.

 

You don't think talking about predictions on win totals has to do with the moves Bloom made or didn't make?

 

The title of the thread is Grading Bloom & Cora.

 

It's fine to discuss them separately, but when you bring up expectations of wins, I don't think I'm going off on a wild tangent to bring up Bloom's influence in those expectations.

 

I also find it interesting that expectations seem to factor into a manager's grades but not necessarily a GM's grade.

[Old Red]

But if Refsnyder does well, will you also call that over managing?

 

#1 Refsnyder is an OF, and Arroyo is not. If Refsnyder does well I would say it was not over managing, buy Arroyo wasn’t doing well, so just to get a RHH in there is over managing.Especially when they are hitting worse than who he is replacing.

[moonslav59]

But if Refsnyder does well, will you also call that over managing?

 

The other thing is that Arroyo hit pretty well, last year, and a platoon vs LH'd starters, which has been rare, this year, is such a small sample size, that one could argue, Arroyo was given a reasonable amount of time to find his 2021 offensive groove, but he failed. Blame Cora for his failure, but it's not like he was expected to hit .550.

 

It's not like Refsnyder was a known plus, either.

 

I'm not defending Arroyo in RF, but his poor offense could not have been expected.

 

We've faced 16 LH'd starters this year to 46 RH'd starters, so we're talking about 25% of the games played and a 9th hole batter.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

 

BTW, in most schools, new to the country students who know no English are not given an "F" in English.

 

And now for the rest of the story: I live in a state where non-English speaking students are required to take the all-important state tests in English. Somewhere, there's someone who classifies as an adult who doesn't deem that cruel and unusual to those children.

[Maxbialystock]

No I’m just saying there was lots of talent on the team to start the 2021 season, and at least would be a winning team. I just throw the 2020 season out the window like it never happened. 2020 did not carry into 2021 just like 2018 didn’t carry over into 2019. I didn’t know if last years team would make the PS, but I at least thought they would be a 82-80 team in other words a winning one.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you are on record saying Bloom and Cora are borderline incompetents. Or at least never worthy of positive comment. By all means feel free to refute by citing your compliments toward either of them.

 

About last year's team, which you claim was loaded with talent. You have forgotten that, although the Big Three (Devers, Bogaerts and JDM) were carryovers from the 2018 team, Mookie Betts was long gone. Meanwhile, the "dummy" Bloom brought in Hernandez (WAR 4.9, tied for best on the team), Renfroe (WAR 2.4), Verdugo (WAR 2.2), Arroyo (WAR of 1.5 in 57 games), Schwarber, Iglesias (last few weeks only and not in the postseason), who all made a difference in getting those 92 wins--followed by that sparkling postseason.

 

As for Cora, by the end of the season, he didn't have a reliable closer, but somehow the Sox won 6 games without a single save, and lost 5 games in which the only blown save was in the 6th inning. In other words, just as in 2018, he was masterful.

[Maxbialystock]

No I’m just saying there was lots of talent on the team to start the 2021 season, and at least would be a winning team. I just throw the 2020 season out the window like it never happened. 2020 did not carry into 2021 just like 2018 didn’t carry over into 2019. I didn’t know if last years team would make the PS, but I at least thought they would be a 82-80 team in other words a winning one.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you are on record saying Bloom and Cora are borderline incompetents. Or at least never worthy of positive comment. By all means feel free to refute by citing your compliments toward either of them.

 

About last year's team, which you claim was loaded with talent. You have forgotten that, although the Big Three (Devers, Bogaerts and JDM) were carryovers from the 2018 team, Mookie Betts was long gone. Meanwhile, the "dummy" Bloom brought in Hernandez (WAR 4.9, tied for best on the team), Renfroe (WAR 2.4), Verdugo (WAR 2.2), Arroyo (WAR of 1.5 in 57 games), Schwarber, Iglesias (last few weeks only and not in the postseason), who all made a difference in getting those 92 wins--followed by that sparkling postseason. On the pitching side, I left out Whitcomb (WAR 2.9, 2d best on pitching staff), Pivetta (WAR 2.6, 3d best on pitching staff), Houck (WAR 1.6, 5th best), Taylor (WAR 1.3, 6th best), and Ottavino (pricey, I agree, but he did get 8 saves and had a WAR of .8, 10th best).

As for Cora, by the end of the season, he didn't have a reliable closer, but somehow the Sox won 6 games without a single save, and lost 5 games in which the only blown save was in the 6th inning. In other words, just as in 2018, he was masterful.

[moonslav59]

And now for the rest of the story: I live in a state where non-English speaking students are required to take the all-important state tests in English. Somewhere, there's someone who classifies as an adult who doesn't deem that cruel and unusual to those children.

 

Same with my state, but they don't need to pass the test to advance to the next grade. (IN high school, they do need to pass them to get credit, though.)

[Old Red]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you are on record saying Bloom and Cora are borderline incompetents. Or at least never worthy of positive comment. By all means feel free to refute by citing your compliments toward either of them.

 

About last year's team, which you claim was loaded with talent. You have forgotten that, although the Big Three (Devers, Bogaerts and JDM) were carryovers from the 2018 team, Mookie Betts was long gone. Meanwhile, the "dummy" Bloom brought in Hernandez (WAR 4.9, tied for best on the team), Renfroe (WAR 2.4), Verdugo (WAR 2.2), Arroyo (WAR of 1.5 in 57 games), Schwarber, Iglesias (last few weeks only and not in the postseason), who all made a difference in getting those 92 wins--followed by that sparkling postseason. On the pitching side, I left out Whitcomb (WAR 2.9, 2d best on pitching staff), Pivetta (WAR 2.6, 3d best on pitching staff), Houck (WAR 1.6, 5th best), Taylor (WAR 1.3, 6th best), and Ottavino (pricey, I agree, but he did get 8 saves and had a WAR of .8, 10th best).

As for Cora, by the end of the season, he didn't have a reliable closer, but somehow the Sox won 6 games without a single save, and lost 5 games in which the only blown save was in the 6th inning. In other words, just as in 2018, he was masterful.

Once again border line incompetents are your words, and not mine. So to say I am on record saying that is 100% false. The big three of Jd, Bogey, and Raffy being carryovers from the 2018 team, and Mookie no longer on the team to start the 2021 season had NOTHING to do with what was being discussed at the time. Once again Dummy Bloom your words, and not mine, and his additions prior to the 2021 season had nothing to do with what was being discussed either. You got nothing right on what was being discussed at all. If I actually thought Cora, and Bloom were borderline incompetents, or that Bloom was a Dummy I would have no problem saying it. Saying Bloom is in over is head in Boston is what I believe, so if you want to call it being a dummy, and incompetents then you do that, and that’s the bottom line.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Old Red

[notin]

#1 Refsnyder is an OF, and Arroyo is not. If Refsnyder does well I would say it was not over managing, buy Arroyo wasn’t doing well, so just to get a RHH in there is over managing.Especially when they are hitting worse than who he is replacing.

 

Actually like Arroyo, Refsnyder is an infielder whose most common position throughout his career is actually 2b.

 

But, yes, why platoon the #9 hitter, especially if he is a gifted fielder?